pro life? - Pro choice?

[Skyrad 0]

I saw this article

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070619/tuk-uk-britain-abortion-fa6b408.html

and with abortion on the rise i wondered where you all stand on this issue.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Personally I'm anti abortion except for very exceptional cases. Having placed a probe on many a pregnant woman and working for years in a Neo natal unit I know that life starts before birth.

http://www.uklifeleague.com/63ppds.htm

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jakee 1,595]

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Personally I'm anti abortion except for very exceptional cases. Having placed a probe on many a pregnant woman and working for years in a Neo natal unit I doubt not that life starts before birth.

But 'before birth' is not 'from conception'.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[DZJ 0]

Have a listen to http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/moralmaze This is a recent edition of BBC Radio 4's The Moral Maze dealing with abortion.

My ideas on abortion are not completely clear. I find abortion unpleasant and would rather there were fewer performed, but at the same time know it is vital for abortion to be legal, as the backstreet, underground alternative would be much worse. I would agree a woman has a right to choose, but I don't think that right is absolute. I don't view a cluster of dividing cells as life, but at the same time am not sure when a foetus shoud assume a moral/legal existence. Will be keen to see if anything interesting comes of this discussion.

[Skyrad 0]

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Personally I'm anti abortion except for very exceptional cases. Having placed a probe on many a pregnant woman and working for years in a Neo natal unit I doubt not that life starts before birth.

But 'before birth' is not 'from conception'.

They kick and move at 12 weeks when you put the probe on them. Are you aware how they are killed at 12 weeks?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

They're not a blob of cells for very long at all.

http://www.epigee.org/images/handsfeet.jpg

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jakee 1,595]

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They kick and move at 12 weeks when you put the probe on them. Are you aware how they are killed at 12 weeks?

But is that neccesarily an indicator of awareness?

Still, it's not an adequate response to my point. What about 10 weeks, 8 weeks?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Nightingale 0]

Whether or not someone else has an abortion is absolutely none of my business, so I feel I'm not qualified to have an opinion.

Personally, I would not have an abortion unless my life was in danger. That's my choice. I'm not going to tell anybody else what to do.

[Skyrad 0]

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Abortion in England and Wales in 2003: summary of key points [Go to reference 12]

181,600 abortions were carried out on residents of England and Wales and a further 9,100 were undertaken for non-residents (principally from Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic)
The abortion rate was 16.6 per 1,000 women residents aged 15-44
87% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks’ gestation and 58% were at under 10 weeks
0.75% of abortions were carried out at 22 weeks and over
94% of abortions were carried out within 24 weeks on grounds that the continuance of the pregnancy involved risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the woman
1% were carried out because of severe abnormality

Scorce http://www.bma.org.uk/ap.nsf/Content/AbortionTimeLimits~Background~Stats

So going on the figures for 2003 which were lower than todays approximatly 63,553 abortions were carried out on the unborn between 11 and 12 weeks.

This is what they under go (description without images)
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/ASMF/asmf4.html
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/ASMF/asmf5.html
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/ASMF/asmf6.html
http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/ASMF/asmf7.html

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rehmwa 2]

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Personally, I would not have an abortion unless my life was in danger. That's my choice. I'm not going to tell anybody else what to do.

with all the rhetoric and agendas and noise and nonsense out there on the issue, I suspect that response is likely the most prevalent among decent women (and men) that think for themselves - I bet it also includes discussions with the father on the issue are very likely, and a general distaste for the concept of abortion

I think it's a safe position that advocates self responsibility on a personal level but does not insist on self responsibility from others. It's typical of decent and very private individuals. It also is based on an assumption of adulthood of the mother.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

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They kick and move at 12 weeks when you put the probe on them. Are you aware how they are killed at 12 weeks?

But is that neccesarily an indicator of awareness?

Still, it's not an adequate response to my point. What about 10 weeks, 8 weeks?

Is pre-awareness your indicator for justifiable termination? Are you describing self awareness as in the awareness of being or a more biological awareness as in response to stimuli?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[livendive 8]

I think life and choice are both good things. I'm definitely pro.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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I'm not going to tell anybody else what to do.

I feel the choice should be left to the woman with some input from her spouse (if there is a spouse). It is her body and her life. She should be given the ultimate choice in her own destiny. To have the state (the government) tell her what she can and can not do with her life is just wrong.

Just my two cents on the matter.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Skyrad 0]

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Quote

They kick and move at 12 weeks when you put the probe on them. Are you aware how they are killed at 12 weeks?

But is that neccesarily an indicator of awareness?

Still, it's not an adequate response to my point. What about 10 weeks, 8 weeks?

Quote

The
first tissues differentiate when the human embryo is
only 2-3 weeks old with the formation of the ‘neural
tube’ from which the nervous system derives. The
primitive structures of the brain (fore, mid and
hindbrain) are recognisable four weeks after conception.
Some peripheral nerves and connections within
the spinal cord can be functional by 7 weeks, allowing
reflex reactions through the sensory and motor nerves
communicating within the spinal cord....

The part of the brain associated with thought, consciousness,
emotion etc. is the cerebral cortex which
forms the largest part of the developed brain, enveloping
the lower structures (Figure B) in two cerebral
hemispheres, the first signs of which are visible at 5-6
weeks.

Scource http://www.parliament.uk/post/pn094.pdf

and most telling

Quote

Current guidance by the RCOG is that
specific methods to ensure fetal death in utero should be
taken whenever there is a possibility of the fetus being
able to breathe after delivery. Such procedures should
be routine at gestations over 21 weeks.

Scouce as above.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Richards 0]

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My ideas on abortion are not completely clear. I find abortion unpleasant and would rather there were fewer performed, but at the same time know it is vital for abortion to be legal, as the backstreet, underground alternative would be much worse. I would agree a woman has a right to choose, but I don't think that right is absolute. I don't view a cluster of dividing cells as life, but at the same time am not sure when a foetus shoud assume a moral/legal existence. Will be keen to see if anything interesting comes of this discussion.

[quade 4]

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i wondered where you all stand on this issue.

I think if you don't own the uterus, then it's probably none of your fucking business.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

Thats a great cop out for guys who want to avoid resonsibility for the outcome of thier own behaviour.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[quade 4]

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Thats a great cop out for guys who want to avoid resonsibility for the outcome of thier own behaviour.

No. I think you've completely missed the point.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Skyrad 0]

Hey not saying you personally but its true.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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i wondered where you all stand on this issue.

I think if you don't own the uterus, then it's probably none of your fucking business.

Agreed ...

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Butters 0]

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I feel the choice should be left to the woman with some input from her spouse (if there is a spouse). It is her body and her life. She should be given the ultimate choice in her own destiny. To have the state (the government) tell her what she can and can not do with her life is just wrong.

Just my two cents on the matter.

I feel the choice to have sex and use protection should be left to the woman and the man ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[NCclimber 0]

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i wondered where you all stand on this issue.

I think if you don't own the uterus, then it's probably none of your fucking business.

Agreed ...

Why is it that the father of the inutero baby has zero say about it's well-being all the way up to delivery and then instantly he's on the hook for 18 years?

I don't get how people can say - you've got no say about whether this baby lives, but if it does, then you're responsible???

[Skyrad 0]

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i wondered where you all stand on this issue.

I think if you don't own the uterus, then it's probably none of your fucking business.

With that attitude one shouldn't have an opinion on most things.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Hopefully you are aware that birth control methods are not always 100% reliable and they do sometimes fail and that the woman can still become pregnant even after exercising caution.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[sundevil777 102]

I think it is about whether, and when, it is a life worth protecting as any other. That protection is granted by law to other lives. I think many want to avoid the tough questions of whether and when it is life until birth, or whether a mother should be allowed the choice to kill it at any time.

I think very few would say that abortion should be allowed at any time during the pregnancy for any reason. I think that position is unreasonable, as is the position that it deserves that protection from the moment of conception. The advocates on both sides of the debate don't want to give at all from those unreasonable positions.

Back alley abortions will certainly be fewer if abortion at any time is allowed.

If, however, at some point it is a life worthy of protection like any other baby outside the womb, then I think the desire to have fewer back alley abortions cannot outweigh that taking of the life.

I think the point at which the baby deserves protection is somewhere no later than 2-3 months.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am