Iraqi Orphanage Nightmare

[Gawain 0]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/18/eveningnews/main2946007.shtml

This is disturbing at its best.

For the guys they've caught, what should be done after a trial and (assuming) conviction?

For the guys that they're still looking for, what should be done?

Apparently, for the soldiers involved, this has been the worst thing they've seen in their three tours over there.

This is what I have been talking about. How many times have I spoken about a "civilization in decline"? These people know right-and-wrong, and yet they make conscious decisions looking the other way.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Skyrad 0]

Sadly no different from the scenes in Romania and China and a host of other places. As for the people responsible arrest them, put them on trial and if guilty lock them up for a very long time.

http://www.hrw.org/summaries/s.china963.2.html#SUMMARY

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4757451.stm

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2841142&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/71094.stm

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Richards 0]

Wow. An article that described a good deed by the troops. I didn't think that would sell as many papers as collateral damage, excessive force reports, atrocities, and generally bashing the men and women serving.

Anyway, yes it is tragic and hats off the troops who found this. As for the people who run it i am not sure what I would do with them. With respect to the staff who were cooking for themselves while watching the kids starve, let the punishment fit the crime. Chain them to a bed to get covered in their own filth and have people eating glorious 5 course meals 3 times a day (with snacks in between) right in front of their faces while they starve to death, smelling the luxurious food.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[JohnRich 4]

(Donning liberal hat...)

It's not our problem. If that's they way they want to run their orphanages, that's their business. We have no right to judge another country's culture and traditions, and we shouldn't interfere.

(Removing liberal hat...)

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

(Donning liberal hat...)

liberal wear 'safety helmuts', not hats - anyway, yours does look like a red protec

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

(Donning liberal hat...)

It's not our problem. If that's they way they want to run their orphanages, that's their business. We have no right to judge another country's culture and traditions, and we shouldn't interfere.

(Removing liberal hat...)

Well, when I don MY liberal hat, I get really pissed off and want to shoot the care takers in the head and then help the kids. Of course I get ticked off when this sort of thing happens anywhere. Not just when it supports my continuing search for a justification for a massive geopolitical and human rights screw up.

[billvon 3,132]

> (Donning liberal hat...)

(Donning conservative hat)

We invaded to stop human rights abuses and liberate prisoners! The irresponsible liberal media should not be reporting failures of our master plan. They are enabling the terrorists, and should be censored. After all, we shoot traitors - censorship is much nicer.

(/donning conservative hat)

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Wow. An article that described a good deed by the troops. I didn't think that would sell as many papers as collateral damage, excessive force reports, atrocities, and generally bashing the men and women serving.

Yeah, she'll be losing her journalist union card over that one...

Bravo Zulu to the troops involved!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Krip 2]

Quote

(Donning liberal hat...)

It's not our problem. If that's they way they want to run their orphanages, that's their business. We have no right to judge another country's culture and traditions, and we shouldn't interfere.

(Removing liberal hat...)

JR

Dude thats a cheap chicken shit shot.

Who made you the spokesperson for liberal values.

This thread is some serious shit and you think it's funny!

Billy Von do your thing

[mnealtx 0]

You need to do some thread searches...that's exactly the prevailing opinion of some posters in regards to Iraq.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Krip 2]

Quote

You need to do some thread searches...that's exactly the prevailing opinion of some posters in regards to Iraq.

Sorry Dude

My opinion of the pics of starving abused children the Gawin posted don't require a search on DZ.com or anywhere else. I'm very capable of making my own decisions.

This has nothing to do about politics it has to do about the inhumanity to special needs children that were treated worse than animals.

If you and JR and bill von are not capable of understanding that. To bad so sad.

Global warming, gun control, contractor fraud is worthy of debate or a circle jerk.

This subject is not.

Gawin you got anything to say about the response to the thread you started???? Or does your silence mean No problemo, that why you posted it

Bump

[mnealtx 0]

If you can't handle people using hyperbole to show how the 'other side' thinks...you're in the wrong forum.

Bonfire is that way <----

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tkhayes 348]

sorry but it's not like they have any infrastructure left to deal with such things.

I feel sorry for the kids, but I expect the people in Baghdad have bigger fish to fry every day.

Blame the caretakers if you like, but first stop shooting at them and bombing them etc.

Once the country gets back to normal, if ever, then things like this tend to get fixed. Until then, expect LOTS of atrocities

[Krip 2]

Quote

If you can't handle people using hyperbole to show how the 'other side' thinks...you're in the wrong forum.

Bonfire is that way

Your out of line againe unless someone put you in charge of SC. Was it: Bill Von: Quade: tom A or HH

Of course you have my permission to PM and we can discuss this without your crew watching.

Since your trying to prevent a disenting opinion maybe its time for you to take a time out from speakers corner. But thats not my call it's the people mentioned above.

I'm not going to respond to your illogical posts unless you PM me so we can talk man to man.

Bad boy, bad boy, what you gonna do when you can't post on SC any more

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

sorry but it's not like they have any infrastructure left to deal with such things.

Really?:

Electricity:
1,420 MW capacity added
*Increased power generation to 1.3 million homes
*Improved Electricity Distribution to approximately 372K Homes
*Hours of Power: Iraq –12.2, Baghdad –6.6 (last week average)

Water & Sewer
Added 434,000 cubic meters per day of water treatment capacity (benefits an estimated 2.3 million Iraqis)*

Health
29 IRRF-funded Primary Healthcare Centers (PHC) completed
Remaining 112 PHCs under construction.
16 IRRF-funded hospitals rehabilitation projects completed

Education
809 IRRF-funded schools providing classrooms for 324,000 students*

Security & Justice
3 Training Academy Projects
93 Fire Station Projects
264 Border Forts

Transportation & Communications
56 IRRF-Village Road Projects
95 Railway Station Renovations
14 IRRF Aviation Projects
Provided emergency response dispatch system (‘911’service) covering 12 million Iraqis in 15 cities

There's also a project underway to help the Iraqis produce more food:

Soil Salinity:
It is estimated that 28 million acres in Iraq are cultivable. However, salinity has always been a major issue. In fact, according to USDA, it was recorded as a cause of crop yield reductions some 3800 years ago. To reduce the region’s inadequate drainage problems of and high soil salinity and to improve agricultural production, the USDA through a contractor, is assisting the Iraqi Ministry of Agriculture with the creation of four pilot drainage and salinity catchment areas in Baghdad, Muthanna, and Wassit provinces. Each pilot area is between 250-1200 acres and is used to test drainage systems. An area of 24-74 acres is used as a test plot to carry out research activities.

Media:
Independent Radio & TV Network Launched
DIYALA, Iraq —The Iraqi Independent Radio & Television Network (IRTN) was officially launched in Diyalaon March 25. The station however, has been operational for several months. IRTN has a combined Sunni and Shiastaff and is based at a media center north of Baghdad and utilizes a 350-meter transmission tower built in 1986. "Some of us may die. That may be the cost of freedom," Rafed Mahmood, 29, IRTN manager, said in a speech at the opening ceremony. "But let us not be so afraid of dying that we forget how to live." The IRTN radio station reaches around 40 percent of Iraq while the TV signal reaches all of Baghdad and Diyala. Programming includes movies, cartoons, nature programs, Koran readings and prayers, and news. IRTN broadcasters are interviewed by the international media. Despite the small staff, Mahmoodhas big ideas --he wears a blue arm-band that he hopes will launch a "Blue Revolution" for peace inspired by Ukraine's "Orange Revolution"."I wear the color blue to remind myself that the blue sky is our only limit."

All of the above, of course, getting scarce mention (if at all) in the network news.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Perhaps you could show just HOW I'm "preventing dissenting opinions", as well - after all, aren't YOU posting a dissenting opinion?

You need to re-read the site posting rules and touch up on what posts are allowed and what isn't. Go ahead - I'll wait.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[tkhayes 348]

wanna try comparing that with what they had BEFORE we invaded?

If everything is so intact, why are 2000/day becoming refugees?

[Krip 2]

Quote

Perhaps you could show just HOW I'm "preventing dissenting opinions", as well - after all, aren't YOU posting a dissenting opinion?

You need to re-read the site posting rules and touch up on what posts are allowed and what isn't. Go ahead - I'll wait.

Still waiting for the PM. Day1 and counting

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Perhaps you could show just HOW I'm "preventing dissenting opinions", as well - after all, aren't YOU posting a dissenting opinion?

You need to re-read the site posting rules and touch up on what posts are allowed and what isn't. Go ahead - I'll wait.

Still waiting for the PM. Day1 and counting

Hint: Don't hold your breath.

If you have something to say, then say it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

wanna try comparing that with what they had BEFORE we invaded?

If everything is so intact, why are 2000/day becoming refugees?

Comparisons:

Environment - current issues:
The new Iraqi government is working to restore the southern marshlands that Saddam Hussein's regime destroyed. From 1991 to 2003, the Ba'athist regime nearly destroyed the Mesopotamian Marshlands, one of the world's largest wetland systems. Massive drainage structures diverted water from 8,000-square-miles of marshes. The drainage targeted the unique, 5,000-year-old Marsh Arab society, seen by Saddam as disloyal and unmanageable after the Shi'a insurrection of 1991.

Economy - overview:
Iraq's economy has the potential to be self-sustaining and prosperous. Despite a difficult security environment, the Iraqi economy enjoyed overall stability in 2006. The currency remains stable, foreign exchange reserves are well above targets, and debt has been substantially reduced.
Iraq's economy was grossly mismanaged for 25 years under Saddam Hussein. Iraq, once self sufficient in agriculture and with tremendous oil wealth, a vibrant private sector and an educated and skilled population, has gone from being one of the most advanced nations in the Middle East to a country with some of the lowest human development indicators in the region.

Iraq possesses significant resources that are underutilized. Among these are oil, water, arable land, low-cost labor, many historic/religious sites and natural beauty. The country has great potential for growth in oil, natural gas, agriculture, tourism and production.

Iraq is saddled with high budget expenditures due in large part to subsidies intended by Saddam Hussein to buy political support by providing virtually free food through the public distribution system, free electricity and subsidized gasoline. All of these programs continue to absorb a significant portion of the budget.

The economy is steadily growing. The International Monetary Fund estimates that Gross Domestic Product grew by 2.6 percent in 2005 to about $33 billion or $1,190 per person, and is expected to grow by 10.4 percent in 2006.
Iraq achieved a fiscal surplus in 2005, largely because of curtailed spending and higher than expected revenues ($23 billion - up about a third from 2004).

According to the IMF, Iraq’s inflation rate was 32 percent in 2004, but is predicted to drop to 10 percent by 2007.
While inflation rates are high, the government’s monetary policy will help assure Iraqis that the purchasing power of the dinar will not decline drastically in the future. That will provide them with a nominal anchor from which to base economic decisions.

The Coalition and the government of Iraq continue to address the issue of Iraqi unemployment. Today, about 1.5 million Iraqis are employed under reconstruction and are working on schools, clinics, roads and numerous other projects. According to government statistics, the unemployment rate in Iraq has fallen to about 28 percent.

Iraq is rejoining the international community. It is on the road to World Trade Organization accession, and received both IMF credit and its first World Bank loan in 30 years.

Debt relief agreements are helping Iraq with its economic outlook; Iraq has secured an agreement to forgive at least 80 percent of its Saddam-era debt.

The Iraqi stock market, established in April 2004, lists nearly 90 companies. A total of 33,384 new Iraqi businesses have been registered since 2003.

Industrial production growth rate:

Electricity:
Production of electricity reached a peak in June 2004, when output reached 4,300 megawatts. Since June 2004, insurgent attacks to the infrastructure crippled Iraq’s ability to meet its electrical demands. Two years of improvement to the security situation and the electrical infrastructure have resulted in an average production of 4,800 megawatts - 500 megawatts more than in June 2004. Consumerism has created an increasing demand that is being delivered by a modernized transmission grid that is more stable than in 2004.

Oil:
Saddam Hussein’s regime bankrupted the country through embezzlement of public oil revenue. When the Coalition began Operation Iraqi Freedom, Iraq’s energy infrastructure was seriously deteriorated from years of neglect.
Coalition Forces helped the Iraqi government restore oil facilities and pipelines, which has improved oil production. Refining has been improved and natural gas production has increased. By June 2006, 179 oil projects worth $1.16 billion have been initiated - 42 of those projects, worth $110 million, are complete.
Weekly crude oil production averages 2.3 million barrels per day. Despite not yet meeting the Oil Ministry's goal of 2.5 MBPD, this shows an upward trend from 0.3 MBPD in May 2003 and 0.86 MBPD in May 2004. Oil revenues from July 2003 to June 2004 were about $13 billion. From July 2004 to June 2005, revenues were $19.32 billion.

Communications
Telephones:
Iraq has a modern phone system for the first time in its history. The number of landline telephone subscribers in Iraq has risen from more than 790,000 in 2004 to more than a million. Iraq had virtually no mobile phone subscribers in 2003.
By June 2004, mobile phone subscribers numbered about 460,000. This figure has jumped in the past two years to more than 6.4 million subscribers.

Internet:
Before Operation Iraqi Freedom began, there were only about 4,500 Internet subscribers and 10,000 Internet users. Saddam’s regime monitored all users. Content was filtered and free e-mail sites were blocked, forcing people to use the government-monitored e-mail system.
People are now free to use any of a number of private Internet service providers, but since the war, the number of subscribers on the state-owned ISP has jumped from about 75,000 in June 2004 to nearly 210,000 in May 2006.
Today there are about 2,000 private Internet cafés providing access to hundreds of thousands.


Mass media:
Mass media has expanded dramatically. Before the 2003 war there were no independent media. There are now 54 commercial TV stations, 268 independent newspapers or magazines, and 114 commercial radio stations.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Krip 2]

Quote

Quote

Perhaps you could show just HOW I'm "preventing dissenting opinions", as well - after all, aren't YOU posting a dissenting opinion?

You need to re-read the site posting rules and touch up on what posts are allowed and what isn't. Go ahead - I'll wait.

Still waiting for the PM. Day1 and counting

Day 2 and counting

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

(Donning liberal hat...)

liberal wear 'safety helmuts', not hats - anyway, yours does look like a red protec

I thought their hats were made of tinfoil...

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[tkhayes 348]

arguably NOT comparative

Environment:
you talk about marshlands, not water supply to the Iraqi people in general, just a small group of people. The Marsh Arabs are only 200-300K of the population.

Economy:
You talk about potential - not what was, versus what is. Almost every country in the world has potential, except maybe Bangladesh and a few other dry African countries.

Electricity:
You talk about what happened since 2004, much improved since then I guess, after we bombed it all out of existence. Still no comment on what was there prior to our invasion (and for that matter prior to the FIRST invasion.

Oil:
Sure they have lots of oil and if we get it right, American based companies will get it all. Will this help the orphanages?

Telephones:
Again comparing prior to 2004, -ww already invaded. ANd bombed their existing system out of existence. Believe it or not, Iraq actually DID have telephones prior to our arrival.

Internet and Media: Good news I guess - but does that help the orphanages? Does that stop the refugee status?

Some recent news:

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=22965&Cr=refugee&Cr1=

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2007/sc9041.doc.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/6766877.stm

http://euronews.net/index.php?page=info&article=428570&lng=1

Sounds like a resounding success to me. I mean, thank God they have cell phones.....They can call their relatives as they flee the country, duck for cover, try to find food for their families and can easily discuss evacuation plans with one another.....

I'll stand by my original post - until the country gets back to normal, I expect to see plenty of orphanages neglected, etc etc.

Much like the fall of the USSR, animals dying in zoos, unattended, hospitals empty, trash piling up, all the 'normal stuff' of everyday life not happening because people are scared and running away. Food, water, shelter and staying alive - the basics become important, everything else is gravy and often left behind.

[JohnRich 4]

Quote

> (Donning liberal hat...)
(donning conservative hat)

You've been following me around a lot lately, imitating my style of debate. Are you stalking me?

"Imitation is the highest form of flattery."

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Quote

> (Donning liberal hat...)
(donning conservative hat)

You've been following me around a lot lately, imitating my style of debate. Are you stalking me?

"Imitation is the highest form of flattery."

Mimic, mock. I see how some might get them confused.