Red Dawn

[Skyrad 0]

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You know you watched it,

So -- were the Wolverines terrorists or freedom fighters? And why?

Wendy W.

Totally depends on if you're American or Russian. The Wolverines were in the same situation as the Chechens at the time we were calling them freedom fighters the Russians called them terrorists after 9/11 it suited the US to call the same freedom fighters terrorists too.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Amazon 7]

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They were "guerrillas," certainly, in the manner of their warfare. But they were freedom fighters all the way. Doesn't depend at all on who won eventually; depends on objectivity. They were invaded. They repelled the invaders.

So basically you are cool with the Insurgents in Iraq.. and the Taliban in Afghanistan fighting for their freedom from the invader.

[Skyrad 0]

One doen't have to be 'cool' with them or even agree with them to recognise their right to fight to repel foriegn invaders from their land. We simply reserve the right to kill them, its an agree to disagree kind of thing.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[birdlike 0]

Yeah, and we'll probably have to deal with them too, eventually.

The REAL irony is that it is taking a nation 6000 miles away to deal with the threats that these countries face.

Have other European nations not been victimized by islamic terrorism? They have? Then why are those lazy, cowardly fucks leaving it to the U.S. to go it alone and fight these shitpiles? And then we look all unpopular and stuff, because we're willing to get our hands dirty, and the rest of the world leaves us alone to do it and then complains that we're doing it "unilaterally."

I think that the U.S. should get out of the middle east: it should use all the money and manpower it's expending on the current war on terror and put a MASSIVE military presence around its borders and shores; close immigration entirely; bring manufacturing and jobs back to the mainland; and FUCK the rest of the world. See how well y'all do when we won't fuckin' help you. (Let's watch how long Africa lasts without tens of billions of dollars in medicine, food, doctors...)

I'm sorry, you can only go so long being unendingly generous while people shit on you the whole time, before you just say enough is enough and withdraw your kindness.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[birdlike 0]

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They were "guerrillas," certainly, in the manner of their warfare. But they were freedom fighters all the way. Doesn't depend at all on who won eventually; depends on objectivity. They were invaded. They repelled the invaders.

So basically you are cool with the Insurgents in Iraq.. and the Taliban in Afghanistan fighting for their freedom from the invader.

You aren't paying attention. We are not over in Iraq trying to make it ours. That's what the Russians/Cubans/Nicaraguans were doing in the U.S. in Red Dawn. So the so-called "insurgents" in Iraq are not legitimately fighting INVADERS. We are not INVADERS over there, because our stated, overt intention is to give Iraq to Iraqis when their situation is stabilized and not a threat to us and the rest of the world.

The same people you cite, are they not happy to be out from under Saddam Hussein and his murderous, psychotic torturer sons' bootheel? We liberated them from him, and now petty control squabbles among megalomaniacal sects of islam are the only thing keeping that country from having normal circumstances.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[christelsabine 1]

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....
You aren't paying attention. We are not over in Iraq trying to make it ours.
....
We are not INVADERS over there, because our stated, overt intention is to give Iraq to Iraqis when their situation is stabilized and not a threat to us and the rest of the world.
....

So it was not all about oil and perhaps kinda vendetta for 09/11, then? Sorry:

Bwahahahaha

You must be VERY new or VERY old to the forums

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[Amazon 7]

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You aren't paying attention. We are not over in Iraq trying to make it ours. That's what the Russians/Cubans/Nicaraguans were doing in the U.S. in Red Dawn. So the so-called "insurgents" in Iraq are not legitimately fighting INVADERS. We are not INVADERS over there, because our stated, overt intention is to give Iraq to Iraqis when their situation is stabilized and not a threat to us and the rest of the world.

Very interesting set of blinders you have there...this obviously is not in the scope of the story you have been spoon fed.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm

Iraq has the world’s second largest proven oil reserves. According to oil industry experts, new exploration will probably raise Iraq’s reserves to 200+ billion barrels of high-grade crude, extraordinarily cheap to produce. The four giant firms located in the US and the UK have been keen to get back into Iraq, from which they were excluded with the nationalization of 1972. During the final years of the Saddam era, they envied companies from France, Russia, China, and elsewhere, who had obtained major contracts. But UN sanctions (kept in place by the US and the UK) kept those contracts inoperable. Since the invasion and occupation of Iraq in 2003, everything has changed. In the new setting, with Washington running the show, "friendly" companies expect to gain most of the lucrative oil deals that will be worth hundreds of billions of dollars in profits in the coming decades. The new Iraqi constitution of 2005, greatly influenced by US advisors, contains language that guarantees a major role for foreign companies. Negotiators hope soon to complete deals on Production Sharing Agreements that will give the companies control over dozens of fields, including the fabled super-giant Majnoon. However, despite pressure from the US government and foreign oil companies, the current Iraqi government has not passed a national oil law. While regional governments angle for influence over the foreign oil contracts, most Iraqis favor continued control by a national company and the powerful oil workers union opposes de-nationalization. Iraq's political future is very much in flux, but oil remains the central feature of the political landscape.

[birdlike 0]

Ooh, a citation from a conspiracy site -- that settles it! I yield before an onslaught of superior "facts."

But I'm still waiting to read that we have all Iraq's oil, and are the owners of that country, and are going to colonize and settle it, and are not trying to set up their government to be self-sufficient with its own military and security forces.

I mean, if we're taking their oil for our own, why are we paying $3.05 a gallon?

P.S. I think it's pretty pathetic that a discussion that started about the movie Red Dawn ended up drifting this far into Iraq and oil. Who is responsible for this? I want answers! I want the TRUTH!

We should be talking about the NRA's role in the production of that film, shouldn't we? That evil, bad NRA that just wants to arm the criminals with automatic weapons...

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[Amazon 7]

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I mean, if we're taking their oil for our own, why are we paying $3.05 a gallon?

Because STUPID Americans will pay for it.... and YOUR president and Vice-President and most of his henchmen in this administration... are making out like BANDITS from their buddies in the Oil business...who seem to be doing pretty dam good now that all this instability in the worlds oil markets b rought on by Bush's actions.

How you doing on that by the way...I am doing great because I DO have OIL in my portfolio..

[Amazon 7]

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P.S. I think it's pretty pathetic that a discussion that started about the movie Red Dawn ended up drifting this far into Iraq and oil. Who is responsible for this? I want answers! I want the TRUTH!

I think the LTC said it the best in the movie... the war was brought on by trying to figure out who had the biggest dick....and had since reached a stalemate.

[bozo 0]

[replyI think the LTC said it the best in the movie... the war was brought on by trying to figure out who had the biggest dick.....

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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Big-ass difference between our action there and those of the Russians/Cubans in Red Dawn.

Give your head a shake. You speak as if Red Dawn happened. Red Dawn was nothing more than patriotic apple pie Hollywood fiction. Iraq is the reality of GWB's stupidity and America's greed. Why did America invade Iraq? The world was told it was because of WMD. Yet now you tell us America invaded to ... what was the reason you spewed out? You need to get your facts straight. America invaded Iraq to control it's oil and to have it's military in the middle east. GWB is such an idiot that he never bothered to ask someone about the history of the Sunis and the Shia. Stop watching Hollywood's garbage and it's sick interpretation of the world.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Amazon 7]

I keep looking but have not found a keeper yet..... all the little ones go back in the stream

[birdlike 0]

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Big-ass difference between our action there and those of the Russians/Cubans in Red Dawn.

Give your head a shake. You speak as if Red Dawn happened. Red Dawn was nothing more than patriotic apple pie Hollywood fiction.

Um, when people discuss the events of a work of fiction, it's understood that "it didn't really happen." Is it wrong of me to refer to the events of the movie in the past tense, like, "When they captured that cache of arms," or "The Russians were trying to take over the U.S." just because those things didn't happen in the real world? Come on, dude... stick with us.

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Iraq is the reality of GWB's stupidity and America's greed. Why did America invade Iraq? The world was told it was because of WMD. Yet now you tell us America invaded to ... what was the reason you spewed out? You need to get your facts straight. America invaded Iraq to control it's oil and to have it's military in the middle east.

Hey, you never asked me if I thought the war in Iraq was a good idea, or whether I think it was truly justified, etc. etc. Fact is, I don't. I'm not happy we're there. But for whatever reason we are there, it's a done deal and we should not engage in the disgusting political infighting that robs our military forces of support and morale. And this making-them-fight-with-one-hand-tied-behind-them bullshit is just an atrocity. Either yank them back home, or let them kick the shit out of the enemy, win, and then come home.

On the subject of the U.S. military in the middle east. The world, I believe, secretly gives thanks that we have the balls to be in such a shithole, trying to keep the world from going muslim (read: psychotic, dogmatic, fundamentalist, insane...) the way we always feared it would go communist.

I'd love it if this were all just a video game we could start over; so we could experiment and say, "Hey, let's play 'Sim-Middle-east' and see what happens when America butts the fuck out and lets the psychos do as they please while everyone waits for, say, France or Germany or Spain to keep order."
BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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let them kick the shit out of the enemy, win, and then come home.

GWB went into Iraq thinking he could fight a conventional war. The man is a complete and utter moron. Once again the idiot never bothered to ask anyone about the history the Sunis and Shia have with each other. This mission was doomed to fail before it even started.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[birdlike 0]

Okay, everybody now: "There's no such thiiiing as a winnable war -- it's the liiie we don't beliiiieeeve any morrrre!"

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[airtwardo 7]

Because STUPID Americans will pay for it.... and YOUR president and Vice-President and most of his henchmen in this administration... are making out like BANDITS from their buddies in the Oil business...who seem to be doing pretty dam good now that all this instability in the worlds oil markets brought on by Bush's actions.

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STOOOOP ITTTT...yer makin' my head hurt!



What channel is American Gladiators on?!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Frenchy68 0]

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The world, I believe, secretly gives thanks that we have the balls to be in such a shithole, trying to keep the world from going muslim (read: psychotic, dogmatic, fundamentalist, insane...) the way we always feared it would go communist.

The world is then wondering how removing a secular dictator, thus creating a power vacuum now being exploited by the fundamentalists, is considered as fighting Muslim extremism?
I believe your statement holds true in many other instances, but I reckon the situation in Iraq is not one of them.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[birdlike 0]

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What channel is American Gladiators on?!

Didn't the Brits come up with "Gladiators" before the dumb yanks came up with "American Gladiators"?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[billvon 3,119]

>We are not colonizing the country . . .

No, but we did indeed invade it. Like you said, they are survivors of an invasion of their sovereign nation, fighting back against their attackers.

>We are not colonizing the country

You mean other than building over a dozen long-term, massive military bases in Iraq. And sending ever larger numbers of troops there. And sending thousands of contractors and translators to live there. And building something called the Green Zone in the center of their capital that most Iraqis are not allowed to enter.

>We are trying to set them up with a government that won't be a
>totalitarian islamic (read: dangerous and belligerent) regime.

From the Iraqi's perspective, we invaded their country, killed tens of thousands of innocent people, tried to impose an unfamiliar form of government on them, and then touched off a civil war. We, of course, are trying to get the country stable and get out. But to an Iraqi whose son was accidentally killed by US troops, whose wife was killed by a sectarian reprisal, and whose friend was tortured by the americans because they thought he was a terrorist - that's a hard sell.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think that the U.S. should get out of the middle east: it should use all the money and manpower it's expending on the current war on terror and put a MASSIVE military presence around its borders and shores; close immigration entirely; bring manufacturing and jobs back to the mainland; and FUCK the rest of the world. See how well y'all do when we won't fuckin' help you. (Let's watch how long Africa lasts without tens of billions of dollars in medicine, food, doctors...)

And how long would we last without the Chinese buying our 30 year treasuries, or trying to redeem all those purchased in the past couple years? Or without the oil and the foreign sales for our Fortune 500 companies?

The rest of the world needs the US, but we need them just about as much. If the above was more than just idle fantasy, time to start studying more economics.

[livendive 8]

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Have other European nations not been victimized by islamic terrorism? They have? Then why are those lazy, cowardly fucks leaving it to the U.S. to go it alone and fight these shitpiles? And then we look all unpopular and stuff, because we're willing to get our hands dirty, and the rest of the world leaves us alone to do it and then complains that we're doing it "unilaterally."

How many times was the US attacked by "Iraqi shitpiles" to trigger our invasion of their country?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[bozo 0]

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Ya got a point. On the basis of the 9-11 attackers we should have attacked Saudi Arabia.
Or....was it Islam that attacked us independent of a country affiliation ?

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

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[Gravitymaster 0]

Hmmm..Last time I checked the insurgents were mostly killing other Iraqis. Are you saying that because we invaded, they got pissed off and started killing each other? That everytime a car bomb goes off and kills 100 Iraqis it's actually because they are pissed at the US?

I guess I never thought of it that way.

[PWScottIV 0]

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You know you watched it,

So -- were the Wolverines terrorists or freedom fighters? And why?

Wendy W.

That is so bizarre... I just happened to be watching it and randomly happened to read your post. It actually didn't totally occur to me till I followed the link that the same movie was playing (didn't switch the channel to watch it).

Gravity Waits for No One.