quade 4 #51 June 18, 2007 QuoteThomas Jefferson was right and should have been listened to. We should outlaw the use of all imperial measures (& related systems) and consign them to the history books ASAP. http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/meter.html Quoted in pertinent part; Quote Thus, the meter was intended to equal 10-7 or one ten-millionth of the length of the meridian through Paris from pole to the equator. However, the first prototype was short by 0.2 millimeters because researchers miscalculated the flattening of the earth due to its rotation. Still this length became the standard. So, what they're saying is; it was arbitrary to begin with because clearly there's nothing "special" about the earth or how latitude and longitude work or the number 10,000,000, they got it wrong, they KNEW they got it wrong, but fuck it . . . they're French! C'est la vie! Yeah, great system. No, it's completely arbitrary.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #52 June 18, 2007 Quote Another one on conversion of units within a system. Who can tell me how many inches are in a mile without looking stuff up or using paper/calculators. This is a much easier exercise if you ask how many cm's are in a km. Cheers, T Other than math busy work, why would one ask the number of inches in a mile? 5280X12 = 52800 + 10560 = 63360. Not so trivial as 100x1000, but who cares? If you want to make these arguments, go after cooking conversions. Milliliters kick the shit out of having to deal with dashes, teaspoons, tablespoons, ounces and fractions of a cup, esp if you don't have a measure for the precise one. And I can never remember which one tspn is - is that a teaspoon or tablespoon? Real cooks may do it by feel, but for those of us who follow recipes literally, the English system does fail us in everyday life. In most others of measurement (weight/mass, distances), it's nearly irrelevent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #53 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuote Another one on conversion of units within a system. Who can tell me how many inches are in a mile without looking stuff up or using paper/calculators. This is a much easier exercise if you ask how many cm's are in a km. Cheers, T Other than math busy work, why would one ask the number of inches in a mile? 5280X12 = 52800 + 10560 = 63360. Not so trivial as 100x1000, but who cares? If you want to make these arguments, go after cooking conversions. Milliliters kick the shit out of having to deal with dashes, teaspoons, tablespoons, ounces and fractions of a cup, esp if you don't have a measure for the precise one. And I can never remember which one tspn is - is that a teaspoon or tablespoon? Real cooks may do it by feel, but for those of us who follow recipes literally, the English system does fail us in everyday life. In most others of measurement (weight/mass, distances), it's nearly irrelevent. Quick - what is Planck's constant in English units? What is the charge on the electron in English units? How is a mole defined in English units? Does it change Avogadro's number? In E=mc^2 what are the correct English units to make the equation work? What is the English unit of magnetic field strength and how is it defined in terms of other English units?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #54 June 18, 2007 QuoteNo, it's completely arbitrary. That is easily the dumbest reason ever to object to a system of units. Especially when the main competition is a system that is not only arbitrary, but randomly arbitrary depending on which dimension you are looking at.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #55 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteNo, it's completely arbitrary. That is easily the dumbest reason ever to object to a system of units. Especially when the main competition is a system that is not only arbitrary, but randomly arbitrary depending on which dimension you are looking at. But that is entirely my point. The entire SI system is arbitrary in every dimension, including the fourth.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #56 June 18, 2007 QuoteThe entire SI system is arbitrary in every dimension, including the fourth. But it is all consistently arbitrary. Imperial units are independantly arbitrary.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #57 June 18, 2007 SI is nice and all, but the magnitude of most of the electrical units are completely jacked up, the coulomb got everything off on the wrong foot, and now most of the units are huge in terms of terrestrial calculations. if your physical constants all have to be > 10^10 or < 10^-10 you might consider revising your base unit. a gram? okay... a meter? yes, yes, fine... but a farad!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #58 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuick, can somebody measure out exactly 1/3 of a meter for me? While they are at it, somebody measure out exactly 1/5th of a foot for me. Two tenths of a foot. Just ask any surveyor. The tapes are measured in 10ths and 100ths of a foot. Kooky, and it really pisses off the architects. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #59 June 18, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quick, can somebody measure out exactly 1/3 of a meter for me? While they are at it, somebody measure out exactly 1/5th of a foot for me. Two tenths of a foot. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,594 #60 June 18, 2007 Quote a gram? okay The kilogram, actually.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #61 June 18, 2007 BTW how much RAM do you have? In English units? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #62 June 18, 2007 Clearly, the metric system is a communist ploy to undermine the United States and the American way of life!Anyone who can't see this needs to open their eyes and recognize the multitude of ways in which the metric interlopers have harmed our once great country! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #63 June 18, 2007 Quote Quote a gram? okay The kilogram, actually. Yes, oops... But ah, the plot thickens! It would appear an understanding as to the absurdity of the magnitudes of the base units was built into their very definition! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #64 June 18, 2007 Quote If you want to make these arguments, go after cooking conversions. Milliliters kick the shit out of having to deal with dashes, teaspoons, tablespoons, ounces and fractions of a cup, esp if you don't have a measure for the precise one. And I can never remember which one tspn is - is that a teaspoon or tablespoon? Excellent example. If the recipe calls for 12 ounces of water and all you have are a set of measuring spoons you best know how many spoons of either size to an ounce...or to a cup if you know the conversion factor for that. Of course there is always Grandma who would SHOOT anyone who dared use a measuring device for cooking! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,109 #65 June 18, 2007 > but a farad!?! I like it that unit. A one farad cap charged to one volt gives you half a watt-second (or half a joule.) Easy! Here at work, I use capacitors from 10 picofarads to 350 farads. Seems to work out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #66 June 18, 2007 Quote > but a farad!?! I like it that unit. A one farad cap charged to one volt gives you half a watt-second (or half a joule.) Easy! Half? half!?! What are you trying to do to our beloved metric system! Quote Here at work, I use capacitors from 10 picofarads to 350 farads. Seems to work out. See, but you've gone down 11 decades and up only 2, that's the imbalance I'm talking about. It's really just because the ampere is too big, which makes the volt too small, the farad too big, the ohm too small, the siemens too big, etc. (side note: I was hoping that fixing these could make the freespace permeability and permittivity and maybe some other constants more reasonable in magnitude, but now that I actually think about it, that may be a losing battle.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #67 June 18, 2007 Quote > but a farad!?! I like it that unit. A one farad cap charged to one volt gives you half a watt-second (or half a joule.) Easy! Here at work, I use capacitors from 10 picofarads to 350 farads. Seems to work out. I like farads too. Oh..wait...those were ferrets, not farads. Sorry. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #68 June 18, 2007 Quote Quote > but a farad!?! I like it that unit. A one farad cap charged to one volt gives you half a watt-second (or half a joule.) Easy! Half? half!?! What are you trying to do to our beloved metric system! The problem is with the second. It is a hangover from our barbarian non-metric past. We really need to get on the whole metric time thing. Centons and microns like on Battlestar Galactica would be best I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #69 June 18, 2007 QuoteHow many millimeters in 7536 kilometers? Why would you need to know this? Spend a lot of time comparing a few millimeters to thousands of kilometers?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #70 June 18, 2007 QuoteThere's nothing particularly "special" about base 10. The Sumerians knew this. I find it fascinating that the first known civilization set the basic units for measuring the divisions of a circle (and the resultant divisions of time), that are still with us today. Called sexsidecimal I think? Or something like that. Even sounds cool." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #71 June 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteThomas Jefferson was right and should have been listened to. We should outlaw the use of all imperial measures (& related systems) and consign them to the history books ASAP. http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/meter.html Quoted in pertinent part; Quote Thus, the meter was intended to equal 10-7 or one ten-millionth of the length of the meridian through Paris from pole to the equator. However, the first prototype was short by 0.2 millimeters because researchers miscalculated the flattening of the earth due to its rotation. Still this length became the standard. So, what they're saying is; it was arbitrary to begin with because clearly there's nothing "special" about the earth or how latitude and longitude work or the number 10,000,000, they got it wrong, they KNEW they got it wrong, but fuck it . . . they're French! C'est la vie! Yeah, great system. No, it's completely arbitrary. You seem to struggle with the metric concept and keep setting up straw men. But kelpdiver and kallend have already 'splained things. You're wise to ignore their posts if your objective is to yell at the tide and try to inflict this silly anachronism you cling to on our grandkids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #72 June 18, 2007 Quote But building a house, measuring something and breaking it evenly to smaller units..................... the Imperial system is old and stupid, what is the point of keeping it?............................It costs too much money to change. That's good, never thought of that. So are building materials and standards totally different in Europe? Are studs not 16" on center? Are insulation batts of a different width? Do they not use 8' 2X4's when framing up a wall? That must suck." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #73 June 18, 2007 Quote Do they not use 8' 2X4's 1.5'sX3.5's when framing up a wall? Fixed it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #74 June 18, 2007 QuoteNow if my stick of 4x2 is 4.5 feet long how many inches are there? No calculator please. If you need a calculator to find out how many inches are in 4.5', you probably should not be building anything. Though I must say, for the most part, I measure the opening, mark the wood, and cut it. Very seldom do I need to do a lot arithmetic, and most of it can be very easily done in the head. I think this would hold true in either system." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #75 June 18, 2007 QuoteWhy would you need to know this? Spend a lot of time comparing a few millimeters to thousands of kilometers? ...which is why I rather like dB... ...although it too is a screwed up unit of measurement. decibel. One tenth of a bel. Who the heck uses bels? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
