Would you vote for Ron Paul?

[billvon 3,107]

>I hope to hell there is nothing there that prevents me from spending my
>freakin' money wherever I wish. If you see that as a "loophole", I hope
>you are a minority of one.

A loophole that allows everyone to escape paying taxes by supporting other economies outside the US is indeed a heck of a loophole. You currently cannot do whatever you wish with your money; the government takes part of it to run itself. If you want to reduce taxes, reduce the amount you spend via the government. Anything else is a shell game.

[nanook 1]

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"What's wrong with the current Tax Codes? Too Complicated?"---------------------------------------------------Donno. Here they are. http://www.fourmilab.ch/uscode/26usc/www/contents.html How long do you think it would take to read and comprehend it? Even people that work at the fuckin IRS don't know most of it. It definitely needs an overhaul.

Hate to scare you more. That is only personal income tax that you listed there. That was only one of several subsets.

You don't need to comprehend the whole code. What's the need to do that? Most of it doesn't pertain to you. Why change things you don't understand or need to? Nobody knows all of it. Can you quote me every single federal law and 50 other individual state laws? No Lawyer can. Not without references. You can find any tax code on the irs.gov site.
Simplifying things make it too black and white. Everybody spends and creates money in different ways. No one person is the same. It's like a fingerprint. The current codes promotes flexibility and fluidity that those other codes can never promise. All those alternative codes are written in the perspective of one type of income reporting. None encompass all like the present code does.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[popsjumper 2]

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A loophole that allows everyone to escape paying taxes by supporting other economies outside the US is indeed a heck of a loophole.

So you support the idea that we cannot spend wherever we wish. So, Big Brother, where would you allow me to spend it? Don't bother...I already know the answer.

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You currently cannot do whatever you wish with your money; the government takes part of it to run itself.

Certainly, I can...and then Big Brother puts me in jail.
Yea America!

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If you want to reduce taxes, reduce the amount you spend via the government.

No. If I wanted to reduce my taxes I would have 10 kids and let the government system, as it now exists, pay for them.

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Anything else is a shell game.

Ah...but we can't play the shell game now can we?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[nanook 1]

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“When a true genius appears in this world you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him.” -- Swift (1706); Thoughts on Various Subjects

The quote is broken. Everybody loved Einstein.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,107]

>So you support the idea that we cannot spend wherever we wish.

I support the idea that we have to pay what we owe. It's a pretty basic tenet of my general philosophy. If you interpret that to mean "you can't spend your money however you wish" so be it.

>No. If I wanted to reduce my taxes I would have 10 kids and let
>the government system, as it now exists, pay for them.

Then you will always be paying through the nose. The only way to reduce your taxes is to reduce what the government is spending. Chanting "tax cut! tax cut!" without altering spending habits is like solving your financial problems by not paying your credit card bills.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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...Really?

Where is the part of the FairTax bill that prevents them from earning the FairTax free money here and then transfering it overseas and spending it there?

Kinda seems like a loophole to me.

I hope to hell there is nothing there that prevents me from spending my freakin' money wherever I wish. If you see that as a "loophole", I hope you are a minority of one.

If you find ways to avoid paying a tax, they will find ways to penalize you. In IL and NC fines of $2,500 have gone out to individuals using veggie oil in their cars (at a greater cost than using traditional fuel). Both states have cited them as "avoiding paying the fuel tax." DEMs in IL have pushed to change that and NC is in discussions about it as well but at the moment those fines are still out there.

As to the OP: Would I? Maybe. At this point I won't support any one candidate from either side.

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you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[SpeedRacer 1]

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_gops_lonely_antiwar_candidate

Speed Racer
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[Zipp0 1]

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There's nothing fair about FairTax.

It's a misnomer like "The Clean Air Act" or "The Patriot Act".

It's a scam designed to, once again, make the rich, richer and the middle, poorer.

Agreed. The fair tax is anything but fair. No 'fair tax' would guarantee that the poor and middle class pay tax on a vastly higher percentage of their income than the rich and super rich.

How is that so? Well, if you have $10 million in the bank, and you spend 500,000 on a home and 350,000 on a yacht, you will be taxed on less than 1/10th of your income. The poor and middle class spend EVERY PENNY of their money just to get by - and will be taxed on 100% of their income.

It's just about the most unfair tax imaginable, in fact.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[mnealtx 0]

Just an FYI.... savings != income. Try again

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

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Just an FYI.... savings != income. Try again

You try again. Plenty of people make $10 million a year or much, much more. Also, the same logic applies to millionairs making less. You see - millionaires don't always buy fancy cars and spend lots of money. As a matter of fact, millionaires are much more likely to buy USED cars and to be more frugal.

The fair tax is a piece of shit.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[NCclimber 0]

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As a matter of fact, millionaires are much more likely to buy USED cars and to be more frugal.

More than who?

People worth less than a million?

[mnealtx 0]

Waaaah,....want a cookie?

You need to go back and read again. Basic amenities are NOT taxable under the fair tax doctrine, so your argument is blown out if the water before you even start.

You're also laboring under the (false) presumption that the rich are somehow liable (in a legal sense) for the financial well-being of the rest of the country.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

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As a matter of fact, millionaires are much more likely to buy USED cars and to be more frugal.

More than who?

People worth less than a million?

OK, I don't have the exact stats. The book "The Millionaire Next Door" states that millionaires drive primarily Ford cars/trucks and have a tendency to buy used.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Zipp0 1]

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Waaaah,....want a cookie?

Yes please.

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You need to go back and read again. Basic amenities are NOT taxable under the fair tax doctrine, so your argument is blown out if the water before you even start.

Food and medicine are not basic needs? I think it is YOU who need to read again!

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You're also laboring under the (false) presumption that the rich are somehow liable (in a legal sense) for the financial well-being of the rest of the country.

And you are laboring under the (false) presumption that food would not be taxed and that the fair tax is fair.

edited to add: Oh, and Bill Gates could buy a used Bentley for $220,000 and pay $0.00 in taxes on it.

http://www.carsdirect.com/used_cars/vehicle_detail.spring?listingId=81320127

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Nightingale 0]

Food and medicine aren't taxed under FairTax.

[livendive 8]

The person who earns more is likely to spend more and thus pay more taxes. The fact that could afford more isn't terribly relevant. Hard work, innovation, and success shouldn't be punished at a greater rate than laziness.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[NCclimber 0]

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As a matter of fact, millionaires are much more likely to buy USED cars and to be more frugal.

More than who?

People worth less than a million?

OK, I don't have the exact stats. The book "The Millionaire Next Door" states that millionaires drive primarily Ford cars/trucks and have a tendency to buy used.

In other words, they're much more likely to be frugal than what was previously thought.

[Zipp0 1]

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Food and medicine aren't taxed under FairTax.

Reeeeeeeealllly????

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers

4. Why not just exempt food and medicine from the tax? Wouldn’t that be fair and simple?

Exempting items by category is neither fair nor simple. Respected economists have shown that the wealthy spend much more on unprepared food, clothing, housing, and medical care than do the poor. Exempting these goods, as many state sales taxes do, actually gives the wealthy a disproportionate benefit. Also, today these purchases are not exempted from federal taxation. The purchase of food, clothing, and medical services is made from after-income-tax and after-payroll-tax dollars, while their purchase price hides the cost of corporate taxes and private sector compliance costs.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Food and medicine aren't taxed under FairTax

Food and basic necessities are not the same. Which would not be taxed?

[mnealtx 0]

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Waaaah,....want a cookie?

Yes please.

Here you go: {cookie}

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You need to go back and read again. Basic amenities are NOT taxable under the fair tax doctrine, so your argument is blown out if the water before you even start.

Food and medicine are not basic needs? I think it is YOU who need to read again!

There is a "prebate" to compensate for costs of living up to the Federal poverty level.

As for food and medicine, I was unaware that they are currently untaxed under the present system.

What's that? They're not? Hmm... so the family not ONLY gets back the payroll income tax that they CURRENTLY pay (more money in pocket), they also get a "prebate" each month (even MORE money in pocket) to help pay for food and medicine that they CURRENTLY have to buy with their (currently) reduced paycheck!

You know, for someone that goes on and on about how the poor are being "held down" and 'having to bear the brunt of taxes' (ha!), I would think you would be all over this!

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You're also laboring under the (false) presumption that the rich are somehow liable (in a legal sense) for the financial well-being of the rest of the country.

And you are laboring under the (false) presumption that food would not be taxed and that the fair tax is fair.

edited to add: Oh, and Bill Gates could buy a used Bentley for $220,000 and pay $0.00 in taxes on it.

http://www.carsdirect.com/used_cars/vehicle_detail.spring?listingId=81320127

SO FUCKING WHAT???? What does Bill Gates' spending habits have to do with reducing the amount of tax that the poor and middle class have to pay?

Your agenda isn't REALLY about helping the poor... it's about punishing the rich JUST BECAUSE THEY'RE RICH.

Quit looking at the rich, and START looking at how much this would help the living conditions of the poor and middle class.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

See, the thing is I think the fair tax would HURT the middle class, and the poor to a lesser extent. And the fact is, food and medicine and clothing ARE taxed, and many would get no prebate at all - the middle class mainly.

I buy everything that I can on the used market, so the only thing I wouold pay taxes on are food, clothing and medicine. That's just whacked.

And who's going to administer the fair tax when you get rid of the IRS? All of the prebates, etc. are going to need administration.

If I was goingto get behind any tax reform plan, it would be a flat tax before this fair tax. And BTW, it will be easier to solve the problems in the Middle East than to make big changes to the tax code, so good luck!

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[mnealtx 0]

Ok...NOW we're starting to get somewhere... you *THINK* this would be bad.

Ok.. HOW would it be bad? HOW would giving a family MORE money in their check at the end of the week while simultaneously reducing the cost of the things they buy be a bad thing?

You've obviously read at least a couple of the pdf files explaining the system - how do you feel it's worse than what we currently have?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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how do you feel it's worse than what we currently have?

I think that getting shot by a big gun is somehow worse than getting shot by a smaller gun. That said, I think I'd prefer to not be shot at all.

Of course, I just "think" this, I don't "KNOW" it.



(JR, don't go off on this; it's just an example.)

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Zipp0 1]

I simply will not support a system that taxes the middle class on 100% of their inclome while taxing the rich on a much smaller portion. I'd sooner get behind a flat tax, but probably wouldn't be too excited about that either.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[mnealtx 0]

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I simply will not support a system that taxes the middle class on 100% of their inclome while taxing the rich on a much smaller portion. I'd sooner get behind a flat tax, but probably wouldn't be too excited about that either.

The problem with your viewpoint is that they're NOT getting taxed on 100% of their income... they're getting taxed on 100% of what they SPEND over a certain limit...the same as the rich.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706