billvon 3,090 #26 June 12, 2007 >Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him. >f America didn't have the military presence that it does around the >world, then things would be far worse off than they are now. Things would be better in some places, worse in others. Many americans see the rest of the world as a bunch of squabbling children who need the parental guidance of the US. It really isn't like that - and our belief that it is leads to a lot of hatred for a country they see as an oppressor. Once we start treating the rest of the world as our equals I think we will see a lot less need for our military, and a lot more countries doing their own thing and not really caring about what the US does. Which is how it should be. >But hey, I'm all for pulling all of our forces back to the U.S., and >letting the rest of the world go to shit. Like I said . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #27 June 12, 2007 Quote 1. /U.S./$528.7 billion/46 percentwhich is still less than 5% of the budget I'm not sure why people are giving rush a free pass on his bad math. Last year's budget wasn't 10 trillion dollars. Or remotely close. So the 5% claim is a load of crap. But putting that aside, no other major power has been engaged in a war for the year. A considerable chunk of that 528B is Iraq related. And removing that consideration, the US is still the runaway leader, but #2, #3, #5, #6, #8, and #9 have all benefitted from the US nuclear and conventional umbrella since WW2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #28 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuote 1. /U.S./$528.7 billion/46 percentwhich is still less than 5% of the budget I'm not sure why people are giving rush a free pass on his bad math. Last year's budget wasn't 10 trillion dollars. Or remotely close. So the 5% claim is a load of crap. But putting that aside, no other major power has been engaged in a war for the year. A considerable chunk of that 528B is Iraq related. And removing that consideration, the US is still the runaway leader, but #2, #3, #5, #6, #8, and #9 have all benefitted from the US nuclear and conventional umbrella since WW2. And Congress fiddled while... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,121 #29 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteYou treat it as if collecting weapons is a hobby, like John Rich and his guns. Do you have a problem with me, or anyone else, collecting firearms? Not at all. It's healthy for individuals to have hobbies. You get to spend your money however you like. You are just the best dz.commer example I could think of. The USA seems addicted to warfare and weapons. Outspending the next 10+ nations combined is just absurd. It just encourages unwanted interference with the affairs of other nations.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airkid 0 #30 June 12, 2007 Some of you are about to upset me here.... alright first of all yeah the military gets a large portion of your freaken taxes.... and it goes to my awesome 1500 dollars a month that i get to support myself in southern california... whenever i am stateside... and yeah it goes to advancements in weapons technologies and other military research..... but before you start knocking on the military budget here...... remember your roots..... all of us...... as skydivers...... sport parachuting began with veterans and some old military surplus equipment...... maybe some of you should think twice before you criticize military spending...... and the weapons we are using now.... in combat.... the weapons i trust my life to.... are out-dated.... most of which were developed in the vietnam era... one of our most relied on weapon in the infantry.... the m2 fifty cal was developed in 1906.... that is over a hundred years ago.... and much of that money you were talking of is going to research and development labs to ensure that the U.S. stays on the cutting edge... to ensure your safety.... cause a lot of nations are waiting for the opportune moment simply because we are pretty much an icon across the globe... and we represent a government most people cannot comprehend.... and we take the podium.... seriously.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hairyjuan 0 #31 June 12, 2007 For the undeniable truth about 'military spending', you would be a fool to NOT go to www.addictedtowar.com, the list of wars perpetrated by the United States,Inc. is irrefutable. FEAR CREATES WAR, LOVE CREATES PEACE [/url]www.carryabigsticker.com[url] THESE COLORS DON'T RUN THE WORLDwe are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively wishers never choose, choosers never wish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #32 June 12, 2007 >and much of that money you were talking of is going to research >and development labs to ensure that the U.S. stays on the cutting edge . .. Yep, I used to work in one such lab. The system wasted an unbelievable amount of money. I recall one program I was working on (the A-6F program) that was canceled but the company negotiated nine months of "spin down" funding. I had to show up every day and do a progress report every week, but I couldn't actually _do_ anything, because (of course) there was no work to do. And I couldn't work on anything else (like the E-2C project we were working on next) because that would be fraudulent billing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #33 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuotewhat is the purpose in the USA spending 46% of the entire world's military expenditures? What has it achieved for us recently? For one thing, we're paying for a lot of the defense costs for other nations, like Germany, Japan and South Korea. Do you want us to abandon those allies? And elsewhere, our military might keeps tyrants at bay around the world, protecting numerous nations from the nefarious dreams of evil aggressorsQuote. If America didn't have the military presence that it does around the world, then things would be far worse off than they are now. For no one else but us, has the power to make tyrants suppress their desire to overpower others. But hey, I'm all for pulling all of our forces back to the U.S., and letting the rest of the world go to shit. What do I care. Unfortunately this is an all-too prevalent example of this type of thinking: If the US government doesn't control it, it is out of control. Here's a news flash: Other countries can defend themselves. do you really think South Korea isn't strong enough to stand up to North Korea? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #34 June 12, 2007 QuoteHere's a news flash: Other countries can defend themselves. do you really think South Korea isn't strong enough to stand up to North Korea? The last I recall reading, North Korea had at least a 2:1 advantage in personnel. Do you have further information showing parity or advantage for South Korean forces?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #35 June 12, 2007 QuoteHere's a news flash: Other countries can defend themselves. do you really think South Korea isn't strong enough to stand up to North Korea? We should have adopted this way of thinking 60 years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #36 June 12, 2007 QuoteFEAR CREATES WAR, LOVE CREATES PEACE But has love ever averted war? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #37 June 12, 2007 South Korea has twice the population of the North and its economy is 30x bigger. They can figure out a way to even the odds. In any case, we need to get away from this neo-con idea that America should garrison the entire planet. The politicians in power don't seem to mind the fact that it is the American taxpayer that is footing the bill for their take-over-the-world fantasy. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #38 June 12, 2007 Quote>Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him.and how do you propose to get them to do that? >f America didn't have the military presence that it does around the >world, then things would be far worse off than they are now. Things would be better in some places, worse in others. Many americans see the rest of the world as a bunch of squabbling children who need the parental guidance of the US. It really isn't like that - and our belief that it is leads to a lot of hatred for a country they see as an oppressor.I dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. Especially when the left uses this very (bogus) argument to try and effect policy change so we can all play nice Once we start treating the rest of the world as our equals I think we will see a lot less need for our military, and a lot more countries doing their own thing and not really caring about what the US does. Which is how it should be.They only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. >But hey, I'm all for pulling all of our forces back to the U.S., and >letting the rest of the world go to shit. Like I said . . ."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,121 #39 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuote>Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him.and how do you propose to get them to do that? . Easy - Just the same way you do with kids.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #40 June 12, 2007 QuoteI dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. QuoteThey only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. So you admit there's no thanks, only resentment, from the rest of the world when we run around the world trying to run everything? Sounds like a good argument for getting the fuck out then. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #41 June 12, 2007 Quote South Korea has twice the population of the North and its economy is 30x bigger. They can figure out a way to even the odds. In any case, we need to get away from this neo-con idea that America should garrison the entire planet. The politicians in power don't seem to mind the fact that it is the American taxpayer that is footing the bill for their take-over-the-world fantasy. Ah, I see. Well, since the evil neocons have only had us on garrison in Korea for the last 6 years, it should be pretty easy to pull out, then.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #42 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote>Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him.and how do you propose to get them to do that? . Easy - Just the same way you do with kids. Should we apply the same rationale to all funding sent to Africa? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #43 June 12, 2007 QuoteSo you admit there's no thanks, only resentment, from the rest of the world when we run around the world trying to run everything? Sounds like a good argument for getting the fuck out then. Cool.... can we start with kicking out the UN Headquarters, since we won't need them anymore?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #44 June 12, 2007 no problem. although I should point out that not all countries who attend the UN are trying to take over the world. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,090 #45 June 12, 2007 >and how do you propose to get them to do that? Teach them well and let them make their own way. >I dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. ?? We are killing people in Iraq. If someone kills your daughter, you are going to think ill of them. The media has nothing to do with it. >So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. Then be sure you are OK with many more 9/11's. People will stand up to criminals, even if they will almost surely lose when they do. >They only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. Right. So don't give them money AND don't kill them. Then they won't have reason to hate or love us (nor should they.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #46 June 12, 2007 Quote Quote Quote >Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him.and how do you propose to get them to do that? . Easy - Just the same way you do with kids. Hmm, this actually make sense"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #47 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. QuoteThey only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. So you admit there's no thanks, only resentment, from the rest of the world when we run around the world trying to run everything? Sounds like a good argument for getting the fuck out then. Well at least I can understand this position from the perspective you give here."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #48 June 12, 2007 Quote >and how do you propose to get them to do that? Teach them well and let them make their own way. >I dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. ?? We are killing people in Iraq. If someone kills your daughter, you are going to think ill of them. The media has nothing to do with it.a bull shit perspective >So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. Then be sure you are OK with many more 9/11's. People will stand up to criminals, even if they will almost surely lose when they do.we are doing that but you dont agree with it>They only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. Right. So don't give them money AND don't kill them. Then they won't have reason to hate or love us (nor should they.) Don't give them money I agree with. If they try to kill us they die! And that is exactly what is going on only not just against the US, It is going on against all none muslim (the radical side) countries"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewEckhardt 0 #49 June 12, 2007 Quote 1. /U.S./$528.7 billion/46 percentwhich is still less than 5% of the budget With a $3T budget it's closer to 17%. Divided by the 130M tax payers in this country it's $3846 for each of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #50 June 12, 2007 QuoteWith a $3T budget it's closer to 17%. Divided by the 130M tax payers in this country it's $3846 for each of us. Hey, that's a rig! 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mnealtx 0 #34 June 12, 2007 QuoteHere's a news flash: Other countries can defend themselves. do you really think South Korea isn't strong enough to stand up to North Korea? The last I recall reading, North Korea had at least a 2:1 advantage in personnel. Do you have further information showing parity or advantage for South Korean forces?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #35 June 12, 2007 QuoteHere's a news flash: Other countries can defend themselves. do you really think South Korea isn't strong enough to stand up to North Korea? We should have adopted this way of thinking 60 years ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #36 June 12, 2007 QuoteFEAR CREATES WAR, LOVE CREATES PEACE But has love ever averted war? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #37 June 12, 2007 South Korea has twice the population of the North and its economy is 30x bigger. They can figure out a way to even the odds. In any case, we need to get away from this neo-con idea that America should garrison the entire planet. The politicians in power don't seem to mind the fact that it is the American taxpayer that is footing the bill for their take-over-the-world fantasy. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #38 June 12, 2007 Quote>Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him.and how do you propose to get them to do that? >f America didn't have the military presence that it does around the >world, then things would be far worse off than they are now. Things would be better in some places, worse in others. Many americans see the rest of the world as a bunch of squabbling children who need the parental guidance of the US. It really isn't like that - and our belief that it is leads to a lot of hatred for a country they see as an oppressor.I dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. Especially when the left uses this very (bogus) argument to try and effect policy change so we can all play nice Once we start treating the rest of the world as our equals I think we will see a lot less need for our military, and a lot more countries doing their own thing and not really caring about what the US does. Which is how it should be.They only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. >But hey, I'm all for pulling all of our forces back to the U.S., and >letting the rest of the world go to shit. Like I said . . ."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,121 #39 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuote>Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him.and how do you propose to get them to do that? . Easy - Just the same way you do with kids.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #40 June 12, 2007 QuoteI dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. QuoteThey only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. So you admit there's no thanks, only resentment, from the rest of the world when we run around the world trying to run everything? Sounds like a good argument for getting the fuck out then. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #41 June 12, 2007 Quote South Korea has twice the population of the North and its economy is 30x bigger. They can figure out a way to even the odds. In any case, we need to get away from this neo-con idea that America should garrison the entire planet. The politicians in power don't seem to mind the fact that it is the American taxpayer that is footing the bill for their take-over-the-world fantasy. Ah, I see. Well, since the evil neocons have only had us on garrison in Korea for the last 6 years, it should be pretty easy to pull out, then.... Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #42 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote>Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him.and how do you propose to get them to do that? . Easy - Just the same way you do with kids. Should we apply the same rationale to all funding sent to Africa? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #43 June 12, 2007 QuoteSo you admit there's no thanks, only resentment, from the rest of the world when we run around the world trying to run everything? Sounds like a good argument for getting the fuck out then. Cool.... can we start with kicking out the UN Headquarters, since we won't need them anymore?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #44 June 12, 2007 no problem. although I should point out that not all countries who attend the UN are trying to take over the world. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,090 #45 June 12, 2007 >and how do you propose to get them to do that? Teach them well and let them make their own way. >I dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. ?? We are killing people in Iraq. If someone kills your daughter, you are going to think ill of them. The media has nothing to do with it. >So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. Then be sure you are OK with many more 9/11's. People will stand up to criminals, even if they will almost surely lose when they do. >They only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. Right. So don't give them money AND don't kill them. Then they won't have reason to hate or love us (nor should they.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #46 June 12, 2007 Quote Quote Quote >Do you want us to abandon those allies? Nope, just let them pay their own way. Letting your kid get a job and his own place is not "abandoning" him.and how do you propose to get them to do that? . Easy - Just the same way you do with kids. Hmm, this actually make sense"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #47 June 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. QuoteThey only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. So you admit there's no thanks, only resentment, from the rest of the world when we run around the world trying to run everything? Sounds like a good argument for getting the fuck out then. Well at least I can understand this position from the perspective you give here."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #48 June 12, 2007 Quote >and how do you propose to get them to do that? Teach them well and let them make their own way. >I dont care what the media does to give us a black eye. ?? We are killing people in Iraq. If someone kills your daughter, you are going to think ill of them. The media has nothing to do with it.a bull shit perspective >So, I don't WHAT the rest of the world thinks. Then be sure you are OK with many more 9/11's. People will stand up to criminals, even if they will almost surely lose when they do.we are doing that but you dont agree with it>They only see us a good when we give in the requests for money. Period. Right. So don't give them money AND don't kill them. Then they won't have reason to hate or love us (nor should they.) Don't give them money I agree with. If they try to kill us they die! And that is exactly what is going on only not just against the US, It is going on against all none muslim (the radical side) countries"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #49 June 12, 2007 Quote 1. /U.S./$528.7 billion/46 percentwhich is still less than 5% of the budget With a $3T budget it's closer to 17%. Divided by the 130M tax payers in this country it's $3846 for each of us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #50 June 12, 2007 QuoteWith a $3T budget it's closer to 17%. Divided by the 130M tax payers in this country it's $3846 for each of us. Hey, that's a rig! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
