Perjury - Important or not??

[funjumper101 15]

The judge that sentenced Scooter to 30 months seems to think that it is a really big deal. He has also stated that "The facts are not in dispute".

The judge was appointed by Shrub himself, on the basis of his record in harsh sentencing, among other "positive" attributes.

Perjury related to a consensual act between consenting adults is enough to try a sitting president for impeachment.

Perjury in the course of obstructing an investigation into the outing of a covert CIA agent is no big deal, according to the talking heads and a lot of the righties.

During the trial, Valerie Plame and several high level CIA officals testified under oath that Plame was a covert CIA agent when Novak printed the story that outed her.

Righties, don't start with the bullshit about "She wasn't covert, there was no undelying crime, etc etc.".
None of the people who testified under oath during Scooter's trial have been charged with perjury. If they had been lying, or saying things that they know to be untrue when they say it, AKA, committing perjury, charges would have been filed. The Justice Department would have been all over it. No charges have been filed, so that talking point is dead. Don't even start.

Perjury strikes to the heart of the judicial process. Taking an oath "to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" means what it says.

Perjury is a major crime, in and of itself. It doesn't matter if it happens during the course of the investigation of a blow job or the outing of a covert CIA agent. Even if there is no underlying crime discovered during the investigation, perjury is a serious crime. No matter who does it and when.

Scooter is a lawyer and was a high government official for many years. By all accounts he has a brilliant intellect.

With his training and background, he knew exactly what he was doing when he knowingly lied under oath. He got caught and needs to serve his time.

I challenge the righties to come up with good reasons why perjury is a good thing when some people do it and a bad thing when others do it.

[mnealtx 0]

So when do Armitage, Novak and Wilson go on trial for the ACTUAL 'outing', if she was covert?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[funjumper101 15]

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So when do Armitage, Novak and Wilson go on trial for the ACTUAL 'outing', if she was covert?

That relates to the subject of this thread how?

There is plenty of material on the web from Fitzgerald himself that will answer your question.

The short version is that the rescumlicans were EXTREMELY successful in obstructing justice and impeding the investigation. They were so successful that charges couldn't be brought.

This is considered to be proof of innocence by righies.

I consider it to be proof of their complete lack of morals, ethics and utter contempt for the rule of law. A successful obstruction of justice is an evil against all of us, right or left.

Start your own thread for that discussion.

[mnealtx 0]

If she WAS covert, why haven't they been arrested??

If she wasn't covert, then what crime was being investigated??

Nice Catch-22 ya got going there.. "I don't want to hear that there wasn't an actual crime, because that means that the perjury charge was bullshit"

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

Quote

The judge that sentenced Scooter to 30 months seems to think that it is a really big deal. He has also stated that "The facts are not in dispute".

The judge was appointed by Shrub himself, on the basis of his record in harsh sentencing, among other "positive" attributes.

Perjury related to a consensual act between consenting adults is enough to try a sitting president for impeachment.

Perjury in the course of obstructing an investigation into the outing of a covert CIA agent is no big deal, according to the talking heads and a lot of the righties.

During the trial, Valerie Plame and several high level CIA officals testified under oath that Plame was a covert CIA agent when Novak printed the story that outed her.

Righties, don't start with the bullshit about "She wasn't covert, there was no undelying crime, etc etc.".
None of the people who testified under oath during Scooter's trial have been charged with perjury. If they had been lying, or saying things that they know to be untrue when they say it, AKA, committing perjury, charges would have been filed. The Justice Department would have been all over it. No charges have been filed, so that talking point is dead. Don't even start.

Perjury strikes to the heart of the judicial process. Taking an oath "to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" means what it says.

Perjury is a major crime, in and of itself. It doesn't matter if it happens during the course of the investigation of a blow job or the outing of a covert CIA agent. Even if there is no underlying crime discovered during the investigation, perjury is a serious crime. No matter who does it and when.

Scooter is a lawyer and was a high government official for many years. By all accounts he has a brilliant intellect.

With his training and background, he knew exactly what he was doing when he knowingly lied under oath. He got caught and needs to serve his time.

I challenge the righties to come up with good reasons why perjury is a good thing when some people do it and a bad thing when others do it.

First off Fitzgerald said she was not outed and he found that out in the first 48 hours of the investigation along with WHO did it. Why did the investigation continue?

Second, to answer your question about when is this crime OK? I guess when the President of the US does it.

Third, Libby is going to jail and Burger is free. Seems fair, I guess

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

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Nice Catch-22 ya got going there.. "I don't want to hear that there wasn't an actual crime, because that means that the perjury charge was bullshit"

How do you figure? Clinton getting a blowjob wasn't a crime, but lying about it was. I don't know whether there was a crime committed in the outing of Plame, but that is immaterial to whether Libby perjured himself.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mnealtx 0]

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Nice Catch-22 ya got going there.. "I don't want to hear that there wasn't an actual crime, because that means that the perjury charge was bullshit"

How do you figure? Clinton getting a blowjob wasn't a crime, but lying about it was. I don't know whether there was a crime committed in the outing of Plame, but that is immaterial to whether Libby perjured himself.

Blues,
Dave

The Libs love to say it was over a blowjob because that's easiest to explain away; in fact, if it was ONLY about a blowjob, it would have been dismissed based on the bullshit interpretation of 'sexual relations' that was used.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,150]

Quote

Quote

The judge that sentenced Scooter to 30 months seems to think that it is a really big deal. He has also stated that "The facts are not in dispute".

The judge was appointed by Shrub himself, on the basis of his record in harsh sentencing, among other "positive" attributes.

Perjury related to a consensual act between consenting adults is enough to try a sitting president for impeachment.

Perjury in the course of obstructing an investigation into the outing of a covert CIA agent is no big deal, according to the talking heads and a lot of the righties.

During the trial, Valerie Plame and several high level CIA officals testified under oath that Plame was a covert CIA agent when Novak printed the story that outed her.

Righties, don't start with the bullshit about "She wasn't covert, there was no undelying crime, etc etc.".
None of the people who testified under oath during Scooter's trial have been charged with perjury. If they had been lying, or saying things that they know to be untrue when they say it, AKA, committing perjury, charges would have been filed. The Justice Department would have been all over it. No charges have been filed, so that talking point is dead. Don't even start.

Perjury strikes to the heart of the judicial process. Taking an oath "to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" means what it says.

Perjury is a major crime, in and of itself. It doesn't matter if it happens during the course of the investigation of a blow job or the outing of a covert CIA agent. Even if there is no underlying crime discovered during the investigation, perjury is a serious crime. No matter who does it and when.

Scooter is a lawyer and was a high government official for many years. By all accounts he has a brilliant intellect.

With his training and background, he knew exactly what he was doing when he knowingly lied under oath. He got caught and needs to serve his time.

I challenge the righties to come up with good reasons why perjury is a good thing when some people do it and a bad thing when others do it.

First off Fitzgerald said she was not outed and he found that out in the first 48 hours of the investigation along with WHO did it. Why did the investigation continue?

Second, to answer your question about when is this crime OK? I guess when the President of the US does it.

Third, Libby is going to jail and Burger is free. Seems fair, I guess

Weinberger went free too. And don't forget Nixon.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[livendive 8]

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Nice Catch-22 ya got going there.. "I don't want to hear that there wasn't an actual crime, because that means that the perjury charge was bullshit"

How do you figure? Clinton getting a blowjob wasn't a crime, but lying about it was. I don't know whether there was a crime committed in the outing of Plame, but that is immaterial to whether Libby perjured himself.

Blues,
Dave

The Libs love to say it was over a blowjob because that's easiest to explain away; in fact, if it was ONLY about a blowjob, it would have been dismissed based on the bullshit interpretation of 'sexual relations' that was used.

You know, I *still* don't care what kind of sexual relations they had, be they oral, anal, vaginal, or solely of the cigar insertion variety. My point was that he got in trouble for lying about whatever it was they did, despite those activities not being illegal.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[lawrocket 3]

Perjury is absolutely crucial.

The justice system is set up to ensure that proper "justice" is given. This means that you've got a system set up where people's words are often used to determine the rights and benefits. These words must be relied on by the trier to determine what happened.

I, for one, think that there is a difference between "lying" and "perjury." This is much as I believe that there is a difference between private immorality and perjury.

The difference is that immorality in the private realm is punishable by private persons. A person who has lied to a spouse faces the consequences of that from the spouse.

Perjury is a public misdeed. Perjury lies to the people. Perjury betrays the idea of justice and fair play because it is a tool to direct the force of the people against another who is undeserving - or to protect a person who is deserving of being on the receiving end of that force.

Words have meaning. Our system relies upon words to mete out justice. The head of the federal government may have done nothing wrong in his consensual affair with an low-end intern (unless you believe that he committed sexual harrassment under the law, which I believe). It was likely not an impeachable offense. But lying about it under oath indicated two things: 1) HE thought there was something wrong with it; and 2) private misdeeds became a public misdeed when he lied about it - under oath. His little lie, that isn't a crime between you and me, became a crime when it was between him and someone else.

Scooter Libby's cohorts may not have committed any crime. Scooter certainly had not. But when he lied about it, he committed a crime.

I tell my clients the same thing every time: "I don't care if you think it makes you look bad. Tell the truth." I'd rather lose a case the right way than win a case the wrong way.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[akarunway 1]

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So when do Armitage, Novak and Wilson go on trial for the ACTUAL 'outing', if she was covert?

You forgot Bushes Brain. K. Rove and that DICK Cheney guy.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[mnealtx 0]

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So when do Armitage, Novak and Wilson go on trial for the ACTUAL 'outing', if she was covert?

You forgot Bushes Brain. K. Rove and that DICK Cheney guy.

I meant who I said, tyvm.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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Perjury related to a consensual act between consenting adults is enough to try a sitting president for impeachment.

How many times must you people be reminded that Clinton committed perjury in a sexual assault case? Dress it up as you wish, but it sounds pathetic every time.

As it turns out, he didn't get 30 months in jail for it, so if you want to argue that it was relatively less wrong, justice seemed to agree.

[rushmc 23]

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Perjury related to a consensual act between consenting adults is enough to try a sitting president for impeachment.

How many times must you people be reminded that Clinton committed perjury in a sexual assault case? Dress it up as you wish, but it sounds pathetic every time.

As it turns out, he didn't get 30 months in jail for it, so if you want to argue that it was relatively less wrong, justice seemed to agree.

No politics seems to agree But at least the the Bar Association had the guts to do what was right

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[NCclimber 0]

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Libby is going to jail and Burger is free. Seems fair, I guess

Weinberger went free too. And don't forget Nixon.

Do you know the difference between gettiing a pass/light sentence by DOJ and getting a Presidential Pardon?

[kallend 2,150]

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Libby is going to jail and Burger is free. Seems fair, I guess

Weinberger went free too. And don't forget Nixon.

Do you know the difference between gettiing a pass/light sentence by DOJ and getting a Presidential Pardon?

Do you know the meaning of "OUTCOMES"? Some lawbreakers go to jail, others get a pass. The mechanism is irrelevent. We have a very uneven justice system.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Do you know the meaning of "OUTCOMES"? Some lawbreakers go to jail, others get a pass. The mechanism is irrelevent. We have a very uneven justice system.

Good point. The local newscaster asked this morning if "Paris Best Western" would have gotten out of jail so soon.

[Royd 0]

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The short version is that the rescumlicans

Have you been taking lessons from Amazon?

[funjumper101 15]

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The short version is that the rescumlicans

Have you been taking lessons from Amazon?

No.

Rescumlicans as a descriptive epithet has been around since Reagan was fucking up the country.

The fucking continues at warp speed.

A working person voting Republican is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.

[mnealtx 0]

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A working person voting Republican is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.

Yeah, damn those Republicans for cutting the tax that the working class pays...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Zipp0 1]

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A working person voting Republican is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.

Yeah, damn those Republicans for cutting the tax that the working class pays...

So, now the republicans are the savior of the working class? That is freaking hilarious!

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[mnealtx 0]

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A working person voting Republican is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.

Yeah, damn those Republicans for cutting the tax that the working class pays...

So, now the republicans are the savior of the working class? That is freaking hilarious!

I'd say that someone who wants to leave more money in the working class' pocket at the end of the day is doing more for them than someone who wants to take more OUT...

You, obviously, think different. Feel free to send more money in to the IRS as a donation to make up for it.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ryoder 1,590]

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The head of the federal government may have done nothing wrong in his consensual affair with an low-end intern (unless you believe that he committed sexual harrassment under the law, which I believe). It was likely not an impeachable offense. But lying about it under oath indicated two things: 1) HE thought there was something wrong with it; and 2) private misdeeds became a public misdeed when he lied about it - under oath. His little lie, that isn't a crime between you and me, became a crime when it was between him and someone else.

I've often wondered; What would have happened if Clinton had refused to answer that question, and told them his relationship with Lewinsky was none of their business?

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Krip 2]

Hi Lawrocket

We had case in small claims court, the other party was represented by a lawyer. The defendent lied under oath and probably to his lawyer.

We couldn't prove it since it was he said, she said and I wasn't about to say anything without being represented by a lawyer.

Do people lie under oath in court? Sure they do all the time thats why there's a jury or Judge Judy to try and figure it out whos telling the truth.

Are the people who lie under oath in court usualy/routinly prosecuted? Or just the high profile cases where thats all they can charge a person with?

[funjumper101 15]

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A working person voting Republican is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.

Yeah, damn those Republicans for cutting the tax that the working class pays...

If you think that the tax cuts benefited working class people, there is only one thing I can say to you.

Did you know the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary?

If you really understood what the tax cuts have done and for which income group, you wouldn't be quite so keen on them.

Do you really think that huge tax cuts for the extremely wealthy while running up record federal budget deficits is good public policy?

The deficits are being mostly funded by the Chinese. If they call in the debt, you'll see interest rates jump 6-8%. That will improve the economy a lot.