Were did God come from?

[Shotgun 1]

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Well he certainly didn't believe in a personal God

Right, but he did choose to call it god, so I assume he falls into the category of "those that believe in god."

From what I know of his beliefs, they are actually quite similar to mine, but I choose not to call it god because that word is usually assumed to mean the Christian god or at least a creator of some sort.

So I don't believe in god, which would technically make me an atheist, but I choose not to call myself that because of the assumptions applied to that word too.

Our vocabulary is really just not fit for describing such things. Thus the endless arguments that often boil down to nothing more than semantics.

[pajarito 0]

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Who's the best captain, Kirk or Birdseye?

Kirk...no question. He changed the world as we know it. :)

[tkhayes 348]

After I die, 'God' will send me nowhere since I am and do not believe.

Since you insist that liars will burn in hell, I thought about this last night while I went to a movie.

I buy some popcorn. "Do you want butter on it?" she asks. "Sure" I said. But we all know that it is not really butter. Just some oily product that some chemical engineer designed.

So she lied to me about the butter.

Does she go to hell for that? Or does her boss go to hell for telling her to say "butter'?

Or does the company that made it, all the CEO's and workers and staff because they call it 'butter'?

Or do I go to hell, knowing full well that I accepted that lie and failed to correct her at the appropriate time, maybe even SAVING her from eternal misery and fire.

Just a thought.

'cause if anyone goes to hell for lying about popcorn, they I am not interested in worshipping such a God, nor am I interested in hanging around with a bunch of people to believe that someone should burn in hell over popcorn.

Since we all sin, I assume we burn in hell (if I actually believed that).

More likely, I will just die, like the billions before me, like the mosquito that I swatted this morning. Just gone. No eternity, no nothing. No other side. Just back to dust.

TK

[NCclimber 0]

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Yeah, Albert Einstein believed in God; what an idiot that dude was.

Well he certainly didn't believe in a personal God, and apparently not even an intelligent but uninvolved one. Most often Einstein seems to be using the word "God" to describe the simple grandeur of the universe.

But since none of us can actually go and ask him what he meant he's not the best person to use as an example.

That's okay. We can just ask you since you seem to think you know what he meant.

I love irony.

[jakee 1,594]

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That's okay. We can just ask you since you seem to think you know what he meant.

I love irony.

Well you are imagining it here.

The only thing I said for certain is that he did not believe in a personal god - he didn't, and he said so in no uncertain terms.

The rest of what I said is simply my impression based on his comments. No where in my post do I say "This is what Einstein believes."

You really, really need to try harder. I'll tell you what, maybe I will need to start using those pretty colours to help you read my posts properly.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pajarito 0]

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I don't know. I can't begin to guess where your imaginary being would send me to. Now if it were my imaginary being then I would have an answer.

If you were guilty of rape and murder and standing in front of a judge in a courtroom, should that judge punish you for what you had done? Should he send you to jail?

[pajarito 0]

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After I die, 'God' will send me nowhere since I am and do not believe.

Let's say the next time you went skydiving, you jumped out of the plane without your parachute because you didn't believe in the law of gravity. The fact that you don't believe in it will not keep you from becoming a dirt dart. Whether you believe in it or not, you are currently under the weight of God's moral Law and it is that Law by which you will be judged. Something deep in your conscience should testify to that whether you admit it here or not. Surely, you have a will to live.

[jakee 1,594]

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I don't know. I can't begin to guess where your imaginary being would send me to. Now if it were my imaginary being then I would have an answer.

If you were guilty of rape and murder and standing in front of a judge in a courtroom, should that judge punish you for what you had done? Should he send you to jail?

And what should Allah do to you when yawm al-Qiyamah arrives? Where should Allah send you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,594]

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After I die, 'God' will send me nowhere since I am and do not believe.

Let's say the next time you went skydiving, you jumped out of the plane without your parachute because you didn't believe in the law of gravity. The fact that you don't believe in it will not keep you from becoming a dirt dart. Whether you believe in it or not, you are currently under the weight of God's moral Law and it is that Law by which you will be judged. Something deep in your conscience should testify to that whether you admit it here or not. Surely, you have a will to live.

Which is why it is so baffling that you continue to refuse to accept the grace of the one true God Allah. Don't you want to go to heaven?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

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I don't know. I can't begin to guess where your imaginary being would send me to. Now if it were my imaginary being then I would have an answer.

If you were guilty of rape and murder and standing in front of a judge in a courtroom, should that judge punish you for what you had done? Should he send you to jail?

Depends on my how much I paid my lawyer!


Ok I will play your game. I think I am a pretty decent person I don't kick puppies very often. But maybe I should go to hell. How is that? I am guilty of "killin women and children. Damn near every thing crawled or walked at one time." Is that the answer you are looking for? I really don't know what point you are trying to get at.

[pajarito 0]

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So she lied to me about the butter.

Does she go to hell for that? Or does her boss go to hell for telling her to say "butter'?

If I lied to my employer, I could lose my job. No big deal. I can get another job. If I lied to my wife, she might divorce me. It would traumatize everyone in my family especially my kids. If I lied under oath to a judge, I'd probably be sent to jail and have to pay a fine. If I lied to the government and cheated on my taxes, I could go to jail for a very long time. If I lied to an infinitely holy God, the punishment would be infinite. Lying is lying. Even a "white lie" that you don't think would hurt anyone and might even make someone feel better about a situation is a sin on your record.

[beowulf 1]

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After I die, 'God' will send me nowhere since I am and do not believe.

Let's say the next time you went skydiving, you jumped out of the plane without your parachute because you didn't believe in the law of gravity. The fact that you don't believe in it will not keep you from becoming a dirt dart. Whether you believe in it or not, you are currently under the weight of God's moral Law and it is that Law by which you will be judged. Something deep in your conscience should testify to that whether you admit it here or not. Surely, you have a will to live.

Your whole premise is based one major assumption. That you are right and everyone else is wrong. You assume that the bible is actually divinely written and that you are interpreting it correctly.
Outside of the bible there is nothing to support any of this.

[pajarito 0]

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Ok I will play your game. I think I am a pretty decent person I don't kick puppies very often.

You may be a descent person by your standards or the standards of your peers, but you are a lawbreaker in light of God's holy standard (the only one that should matter). So, you're really not a descent person because you're a liar like the rest of us (that's only the 6th Commandment), right?

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But maybe I should go to hell. How is that? I am guilty of "killin women and children. Damn near every thing crawled or walked at one time." Is that the answer you are looking for? I really don't know what point you are trying to get at.

Jesus said that if you've ever just been angry with another person without cause (e.g. road rage), you are a murderer at heart. God knows your heart. Thoughts and intentions are as bad as the action.

If you were to die right now in your sinful state, the Bible makes it clear that you would be judged in righteousness and sent to hell (described earlier) for eternity. Does that not concern you?

[pajarito 0]

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Your whole premise is based one major assumption. That you are right and everyone else is wrong. You assume that the bible is actually divinely written and that you are interpreting it correctly.
Outside of the bible there is nothing to support any of this.

Jesus Christ proved who He was. He also said He is the only way. No one comes to the Father but through Him. He left no room for ambiguity.

[beowulf 1]

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Ok I will play your game. I think I am a pretty decent person I don't kick puppies very often.

You may be a descent person by your standards or the standards of your peers, but you are a lawbreaker in light of God's holy standard (the only one that should matter). So, you're really not a descent person because you're a liar like the rest of us (that's only the 6th Commandment), right?

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But maybe I should go to hell. How is that? I am guilty of "killin women and children. Damn near every thing crawled or walked at one time." Is that the answer you are looking for? I really don't know what point you are trying to get at.

Jesus said that if you've ever just been angry with another person without cause (e.g. road rage), you are a murderer at heart. God knows your heart. Thoughts and intentions are as bad as the action.

If you were to die right now in your sinful state, the Bible makes it clear that you would be judged in righteousness and sent to hell (described earlier) for eternity. Does that not concern you?

No I am not concerned since it is all make believe. There is no God or any other gods out there. You can condemn me to hell if you want. That's your problem. Why do you assume you are correct?

[pajarito 0]

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Which is why it is so baffling that you continue to refuse to accept the grace of the one true God Allah. Don't you want to go to heaven?

What has any figure written about in the Koran done which would convince me or anyone else to believe?

[beowulf 1]

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Your whole premise is based one major assumption. That you are right and everyone else is wrong. You assume that the bible is actually divinely written and that you are interpreting it correctly.
Outside of the bible there is nothing to support any of this.

Jesus Christ proved who He was. He also said He is the only way. No one comes to the Father but through Him. He left no room for ambiguity.

Really?! you were there and can vouch for the authenticity of his divinity??! Damn you been around a long time!

[yourmomma 0]

"If you were to die right now in your sinful state, the Bible makes it clear that you would be judged in righteousness and sent to hell (described earlier) for eternity. Does that not concern you?"

About as much as Allah's wrath concerns you.

[beowulf 1]

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Which is why it is so baffling that you continue to refuse to accept the grace of the one true God Allah. Don't you want to go to heaven?

What has any figure written about in the Koran done which would convince me or anyone else to believe?

If you were born to Muslim parents you would be singing a different song.

[pajarito 0]

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No I am not concerned since it is all make believe. There is no God or any other gods out there.

If it was possible to remove one of your eyes without any pain whatsoever, would you do it for $1000,000?

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You can condemn me to hell if you want. That's your problem. Why do you assume you are correct?

Again, I am not condemning you. Just warning you. The Bible says that you are condemned already if you do not repent and trust in the Savior. My motive is sincere. I don't want your money. I don't want to turn you on to a particular brand of religion. I'll probably never see you in person for the rest of my life. I just can't stand the thought of anyone going to hell. By the way, I don't assume.

[pajarito 0]

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Really?! you were there and can vouch for the authenticity of his divinity??! Damn you been around a long time!

It's the best preserved and reliable text in antiquity. It has been scrutinized for thousands of years by the best. Does the President reside in the White House? How do you know? Would it be reasonable to walk up to it and look in the window to see if he was there?

[pajarito 0]

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"If you were to die right now in your sinful state, the Bible makes it clear that you would be judged in righteousness and sent to hell (described earlier) for eternity. Does that not concern you?"

About as much as Allah's wrath concerns you.

See above reply to Jakee.

[beowulf 1]

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No I am not concerned since it is all make believe. There is no God or any other gods out there.

If it was possible to remove one of your eyes without any pain whatsoever, would you do it for $1000,000?

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You can condemn me to hell if you want. That's your problem. Why do you assume you are correct?

Again, I am not condemning you. Just warning you. The Bible says that you are condemned already if you do not repent and trust in the Savior. My motive is sincere. I don't want your money. I don't want to turn you on to a particular brand of religion. I'll probably never see you in person for the rest of my life. I just can't stand the thought of anyone going to hell. By the way, I don't assume.

No I wouldn't remove either with or with out pain for any amount of money. Money isn't worth that much to me.

Just because you believe it to be true doesn't make it true.

[pajarito 0]

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If you were born to Muslim parents you would be singing a different song.

You don't go to hell because you've never heard of Jesus Christ or the gospel. You go to hell because you've lied, stolen, blasphemed, committed adultery, murdered, coveted, etc. No one is innocent.

You didn't answer my question before...

"What has any figure written about in the Koran done which would convince me or anyone else to believe?"

[beowulf 1]

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Really?! you were there and can vouch for the authenticity of his divinity??! Damn you been around a long time!

It's the best preserved and reliable text in antiquity. It has been scrutinized for thousands of years by the best. Does the President reside in the White House? How do you know? Would it be reasonable to walk up to it and look in the window to see if he was there?

That isn't a very convincing argument for it's divine authoring.