63 years ago today

[chris74 0]

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Chris

[NCclimber 0]

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ah yes, "the average german"

would that be the average german who enlisted in their millions to fight for germany? or the average german who propped up the war effort back home? or the average german who shit themselves after the war ended and cried that it was nothing to do with them, that they didn't know of the holocaust and that they didn't know any nazis ? or is there another type of "average german" i don't know about?

You seem to be holding a particularly vicious grudge against the "average German". The war has been over for 60+ years. The Germans surrended and agreed to abide by the rules of the conquering forces. The nations of the world have made a concerted effort to root out and prosecute any surviving war criminals.

The world has moved on. Why does it seem you haven't? What's your beef, here in 2007?

[idrankwhat 0]

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Oddly enough, it was ok for us to take the war to a group who had stated their intent to attack us 60 years ago...but it's not ok to do the same now.

Sure it is. And it's a damn shame that we quit going after them so we could invade a country that wasn't threatening us.

I'll say again what I've said before; we are a sad, pale imitation of the "Greatest Generation".

No question about that

[freethefly 6]

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After what the Germans did during WW11, the conquering allied forces should have wiped Germany off the face of the earth

World war 11? I am only aware of WW1 and 2. I must had slept through the last 10 world wars. Only kidding. I know what you mean. Besides, why blame the people of Germany? Blame their government. The soldiers are no more responsible than any other soldier cast into the atrocity of war. Would you blame the soldiers in Iraq for all the death and destruction? Or, would you blame the government that cast them into quagmire? The soldier has very little choice but to fight. I blame those who hold the controls.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Damn those Americans for sticking their noses into the private business of other countries! Who the hell did they think they were to employ military force against other soverign nations? We shoulda kept our soldiers home and out of harm's way

I see that along statistics and logic, history isn't your strong point.

You may have forgotten that there was an actual declaration of war. A step I guess not really necessary anymore in this day and age.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

[christelsabine 1]

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After what the Germans did during WW11, the conquering allied forces should have wiped Germany off the face of the earth

What's your age, dear?

Old enough to have spoken to people who had first hand accounts of the attrocities committed by the Germans.

Germany was on its knees after WW1, they desperately wanted a leader to come along and give them back their pride.... Hitler was just the person they were looking for, he said the things to them they wanted to hear. he had the support of the VAST MAJORITY of German people... the same German people who either directly supported the war effort, or at least stood by and did nothing to stop it.

wasn't it rather odd that after the war was over, hardly any German people said they even knew any Nazi's, they didn't have a clue what was going on at the concentration camps, it was all basically "nothing to do with them" yeah right !!!!!!!

there's only ever been 2 World Wars, isn't it rather odd that the same country has started both of them????

seeing as you're probably a German, have you read any books on the Holocaust? any on the Nazi's ? any of the German war effort and what the general population did to suport it?

Not probably: I am a German and see no urge to change that fact.

Yes MDMA, I did read more than one book about our history which is huge part in our school educational system.

As I am already a bit over 40 y/o, trust me: I know what I'm talking about.

Me thinks your knowledge about "the German and his history " just is poor stammering and sounds soooo 1960-ish...

Just a hint:
Ever heard about Sarajewo?

Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

In few words: Your post shows a significant lack of Veda.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[NCclimber 0]

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Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

For almost 30 years, Nazi groups in the US have been practically invisible. They're a non-issue. Can the same be said for Germany?

[idrankwhat 0]

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Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

For almost 30 years, Nazi groups in the US have been practically invisible. They're a non-issue. Can the same be said for Germany?

I'm not sure that the comment was directed at neo-nazi groups
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11497296/

[kallend 2,183]

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Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

For almost 30 years, Nazi groups in the US have been practically invisible. They're a non-issue. Can the same be said for Germany?

Becoming invisible does not mean they are a non-issue.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

For almost 30 years, Nazi groups in the US have been practically invisible. They're a non-issue. Can the same be said for Germany?

I'm not sure that the comment was directed at neo-nazi groups

What do you think she meant by "Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me"?

[idrankwhat 0]

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Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

For almost 30 years, Nazi groups in the US have been practically invisible. They're a non-issue. Can the same be said for Germany?

I'm not sure that the comment was directed at neo-nazi groups

What do you think she meant by "Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me"?

Ooops. I think you're right upon re-reading. (see, that's not so hard) Sorry. I guess I still had Putin's quote in my head and thought she was referring to Bush's neo-demokracy policies.

[NCclimber 0]

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Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

For almost 30 years, Nazi groups in the US have been practically invisible. They're a non-issue. Can the same be said for Germany?

Becoming invisible does not mean they are a non-issue.

Do you have any evidence of them being an issue? Or is this just an attempt to confuse matters?

Perhaps you could provide some figures on Neo-Nazi crimes/incidents in recent history.

[freethefly 6]

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Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

For almost 30 years, Nazi groups in the US have been practically invisible. They're a non-issue. Can the same be said for Germany?

Becoming invisible does not mean they are a non-issue.

Do you have any evidence of them being an issue? Or is this just an attempt to confuse matters?

Perhaps you could provide some figures on Neo-Nazi crimes/incidents in recent history.

I just did a fast search and found a good number incidents involving nazi groups not only in the US but in other countries as well. Just because they are not upfront and in the limelight does not mean they are not active. It is the groups that wish to remain mostly unseen that are of the greatest danger.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[JohnRich 4]

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Damn those Americans for sticking their noses into the private business of other countries! Who the hell did they think they were to employ military force against other soverign nations? We shoulda kept our soldiers home and out of harm's way

You may have forgotten that there was an actual declaration of war.

So? They weren't attacking our homeland. We could have stayed out of the European theatre - it wasn't any of our business what was going on over there. There are countries today that don't want America involved in foreign entanglements, like France and Spain - so we should have just left them alone in WWII to handle their own problems.

And the sinking of the Lusitania was a conspiracy to get the U.S. involved. Roosevelt lied, and our soldiers died, along with millions of innocent civilians, as American soldiers marched across Europe, bombing, burning and killing. Roosevelt should have been put on trial for war crimes, just like the Nazis.

And NATO should be disbanded, since it requires other nations to come to each other's defense if a member is attacked. That's just more meddling in the internal affairs of other nations. There's no room in this modern world for helping friends out in time of desperate need. It's every man for himself! Ban NATO!

[DZJ 0]

In 1942 the Germans were capable of sailing U-boats to the US eastern seaboard and sinking US vessels with almost total impunity. That doesn't count as an attack on the homeland?

Bit puzzled by your reference to the Lusitania. Were you thinking of the First World War?

[Butters 0]

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"Soldier, sailors and airmen of the allied forces. You are about to embark on the great crusade to rid the world of tyranny and evil ..."

To all who served, thank you.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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So? They weren't attacking our homeland. We could have stayed out of the European theatre - it wasn't any of our business what was going on over there. There are countries today that don't want America involved in foreign entanglements, like France and Spain - so we should have just left them alone in WWII to handle their own problems.

never mind the lack of historical facts. Your logic doesn't make any sense. because of a mindset of a country today, you claim something else should have been done in the past? You are just not making any sense.

[Butters 0]

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After what the Germans did during WW11, the conquering allied forces should have wiped Germany off the face of the earth

Do not become that which you are attempting to defeat.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[akarunway 1]

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Just a question:
Why is "the Nazi" so actual in the US? Nazi groups with thier odd ideas are well spread over the US, would you explain that for me?

For almost 30 years, Nazi groups in the US have been practically invisible. They're a non-issue. Can the same be said for Germany?

Becoming invisible does not mean they are a non-issue.

Do you have any evidence of them being an issue? Or is this just an attempt to confuse matters?

Perhaps you could provide some figures on Neo-Nazi crimes/incidents in recent history.

I just did a fast search and found a good number incidents involving nazi groups not only in the US but in other countries as well. Just because they are not upfront and in the limelight does not mean they are not active. It is the groups that wish to remain mostly unseen that are of the greatest danger.

Very true. A few yrs. back I went to a party w/ the friend of a friend in a NICE neighborhood. Walked in the door. 100 skinhead/nazis in full uniform armed to the teeth. Ya never know. I didn't stay long that's for sure.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Very true. A few yrs. back I went to a party w/ the friend of a friend in a NICE neighborhood. Walked in the door. 100 skinhead/nazis in full uniform armed to the teeth. Ya never know. I didn't stay long that's for sure.

racist skinheads, or guys goosestepping around with swastikas? The Nazi Party, or immitations thereof, seems pretty dead in this country. When's the last time you see them on the news?

[kallend 2,183]

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Very true. A few yrs. back I went to a party w/ the friend of a friend in a NICE neighborhood. Walked in the door. 100 skinhead/nazis in full uniform armed to the teeth. Ya never know. I didn't stay long that's for sure.

racist skinheads, or guys goosestepping around with swastikas? The Nazi Party, or immitations thereof, seems pretty dead in this country. When's the last time you see them on the news?

You don't need to put on a brown shirt and goosestep around in order to support Nazi ideals.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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Your logic doesn't make any sense...

Maybe that's because I'm mimicing the logic being used by the liberals in regards to the Iraq war.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Whilst I realise you're just, (to put a polite slant on it), playing devil's advocate...

Your knowledge of basic historic facts is seriously wanting.

Firstly, the Lusitania was sunk prior to US involvement in the FIRST World War. It had nothing to do with the Second!

Secondly... well, here's a list of shipping lost by the US to German U-Boats BEFORE Pearl Harbor and the subsequent German Declaration of War:

Date Ship Type Cause Result Location Deaths
10/09/39 SS City of Flint Hog Island freighter Capture by pocket battleship Deutchland Released NAtlantic None
2/18/40 El Sonador Freighter (Panama) Torpedo Sunk Shetland Islands Crew Approx 17
06/12/40 Exochorda Freighter Shelled Slight damage Med-Black Sea None
11/09/40 City of Rayville Freighter German mine Sunk Australian coast Crew 1
12/21/40 Charles Pratt Tanker (Panama) Torpedo Sunk SAtlantic Crew 2
05/21/41 Robin Moor Hog Islander Torpedo & Shelled Sunk Caribbean None
08/11/41 Iberville Freighter Aerial mine from German aircraft Damaged Red Sea None
08/17/41 Longtaker [former Danish Sessa] Freighter (Panama) Torpedo & Shelled Sunk NAtlantic Crew 24 (3 survivors)
09/05/41 Steel Seafarer Freighter Bombed by German aircraft Sunk Gulf of Suez None
09/11/41 Arkansan Freighter Shelled Damaged Indian-Red Sea None
09/11/41 Montana [former Danish Paula] Freighter (Panama) Torpedo Sunk North Atlantic Crew 26
09/19/41 Pink Star [former Danish Landby] Freighter (Panama) Torpedo Sunk North Atlantic Crew 13
09/27/41 I. C. White Tanker (Panama) Torpedo Sunk South Atlantic Crew 3
10/16/41 Bold Venture [former Danish Alssund] Freighter (Panama) Torpedo Sunk North Atlantic Crew 17, (17 survivors)
10/19/41 Lehigh Freighter Torpedo Sunk ApproachMed None
11/05/41 Montrose Freighter Collision Unknown North Atlantic Unknown
11/11/41 Meridian [former Italian Dino] Freighter (Panama) Torpedo Sunk North Atlantic Crew approx. 38
11/14/41 Crusader [former Danish Brosund] Freighter Torpedo Sunk North Atlantic Crew approx 33; German POW 1
11/16/41 Turecamo Boys Tug Unknown Sunk North Atlantic Crew 9
11/19/41 Del Pidio Unknown (Philippines) Mine Unknown Philippines Crew 6
11/19/41 Edridio Mindoro (67 ton) Mine Sunk Philippines Unknown
12/02/41 Astral Tanker Torpedo Sunk NAtlantic Crew 37
12/03/41 Sagadahoc Freighter Torpedo Sunk ApproachMed Crew 1
12/07/41 Cynthia Olson Steam Schooner Torpedo Sunk Pacific Crew 33; US Army 2

Once war was declared U-boats sunk a further 609 ships in US WATERS during the first 8 months of US involvement alone.

This is without going into German plans to use Submarine launched ballistic missiles to attack US cities and their attempts to develop nuclear weapons which could have been fitted to said missiles had the war not been brought to a conclusion.

[freethefly 6]

Also, there should be mention of who armed the Nazi war machine and made a fortune doing so. Prescott Bush. Yup, the Bush fortune came from the blood of the millions killed due to their cozy relationship with Hitler. Damn, those Bush's are so freaking dirty with blood money it is not at all funny. And the tradition continues today.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

OMG yes, you're absolutely RIGHT!!! ONE share in a company that worked with a Nazi supporter that renounced Hitler and fled Germany in 1939... 3 years BEFORE Pearl Harbor and Germany's declaration of war.

Joe Kennedy was a supporter of the Nazis as well as the IRA.

Al Gore Sr. voted AGAINST the Civil Rights Act.

I guess that makes Clinton a communist, based on campaign contributions and missile technology deals, then...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706