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Richards 0
I can appreciate your desire to be objective on this, but I guess this is just such a sore spot for us up here that we find it difficult to maintain a sense of clinical detachment.
While I acknowledge that we in the west have exercised "situational ethics" in the past, I really wish I could figure out specifically what you think of this situation. Does it not bug you at all that someone who has dedicated his life to jihad, and fought for a foreign power conveniently pulls out his passport when things go tits up, and is going to come back here and live like a canadian. Is there not a bitter aftertaste to the fact that we are allowing him to live here even though he clearly has nothing but contempt for our country and would love to destroy yours? Is everything simplified into a constitutional definition?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/
http://www.thestar.com/article/208502
While I acknowledge that we in the west have exercised "situational ethics" in the past, I really wish I could figure out specifically what you think of this situation. Does it not bug you at all that someone who has dedicated his life to jihad, and fought for a foreign power conveniently pulls out his passport when things go tits up, and is going to come back here and live like a canadian. Is there not a bitter aftertaste to the fact that we are allowing him to live here even though he clearly has nothing but contempt for our country and would love to destroy yours? Is everything simplified into a constitutional definition?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/
http://www.thestar.com/article/208502
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
kallend 2,150
QuoteI can appreciate your desire to be objective on this, but I guess this is just such a sore spot for us up here that we find it difficult to maintain a sense of clinical detachment.
While I acknowledge that we in the west have exercised "situational ethics" in the past, I really wish I could figure out specifically what you think of this situation. Does it not bug you at all that someone who has dedicated his life to jihad, and fought for a foreign power conveniently pulls out his passport when things go tits up, and is going to come back here and live like a canadian. Is there not a bitter aftertaste to the fact that we are allowing him to live here even though he clearly has nothing but contempt for our country and would love to destroy yours? Is everything simplified into a constitutional definition?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/khadr/
http://www.thestar.com/article/208502
Constitutional protections aren't just for people we like.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteDue to an abusive up bringing I left home at age 15. Thanks to the support of a few select relatives I was able to continue my education and not become a street thug. But it's amazing how fast someone can grow up when they are forced to. Just because it's the norm now-a-days for youth to continue to live at home well into the 20s and 30s - people are capable of acting like adults at age 15.
You completely contradict yourself in this paragraph.
First you state that thanks to to a select few relatives you didn't become a street thug. Then you state that people are able to act like adults (assuming you meant responsible adults) at the age of 15.
Richards 0
QuoteConstitutional protections aren't just for people we like.
I'm not trying to be a jerk about this but you haven't answered my question. What is your personal opinion on this situation?
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteConstitutional protections aren't just for people we like.
I'm not trying to be a jerk about this but you haven't answered my question. What is your personal opinion on this situation?
He should be tried according to the Constitution, not in some extra-Constitutional
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Richards 0
QuoteHe should be tried according to the Constitution, not in some extra-Constitutional
kangaroo court"tribunal".
Fair enough, but what about has status as a "Canadian"? Should we not be able to do something about this citizen of convenience business?
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Do you believe that 15 years old are NOT capable of acting like adults? I don't. I feel when they are thrust into a scenario beyond their control, people are capable of growing up real fast (take the death of a parent and/or finding oneself on their own as examples of how this can happen). The whole reason this was brought up was because some people claim Omar Khadr did not know what he was doing since he was caught fighting in a war zone as a minor and all I say is hog wash. He knew exactly what he was doing. Just because our soft MTV (or in Canada's case Much Music) generation is allowed to remain children well into their 20s doesn't mean that other people in the world are not forced to grow up faster than we do.
When I say that a few select relatives helped me ... they either gave me money loaned money (in the case of my post secondary education) to me so that I could remain in school (shit dude I finished my last year in high school living on my own ... and not liviing with my abusive step-monster ... or was that step-father ... who by the way happened to grow up on the other side of WWII and was an active member of the Hitler youth and tried to raise me into his own version of a Hitler youth). Instead of looking for holes to shoot down people's life experiences ... you should stick to the thread. Omar Khadr is not a victim ... he is someone who wants to see our way of life destroyed ... he wants to see us all dead.
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
When I say that a few select relatives helped me ... they either gave me money loaned money (in the case of my post secondary education) to me so that I could remain in school (shit dude I finished my last year in high school living on my own ... and not liviing with my abusive step-monster ... or was that step-father ... who by the way happened to grow up on the other side of WWII and was an active member of the Hitler youth and tried to raise me into his own version of a Hitler youth). Instead of looking for holes to shoot down people's life experiences ... you should stick to the thread. Omar Khadr is not a victim ... he is someone who wants to see our way of life destroyed ... he wants to see us all dead.
Try not to worry about the things you have no control over
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteOmar Khadr is not a victim ... he is someone who wants to see our way of life destroyed ... he wants to see us all dead.
The question is how Omar Khadr came to those viewpoints. Some of that history might deminish some of his guilt, specially at that age.
If a child is raised in a cult invironment in which it is constantly told that killing dogs by slitting their throat and let them bleed to death is the right thing to do, it has hard to 100% fault that child at 15 slitting the throat of a dog and watching it bleed to death.
You have done well for yourself under difficult circumstances. But even you indicate that you had some help along the way. Now imagine not having any of that help. Can it be done...sure, but the odds deminish pretty fast.
Quote
Fair enough, but what about has status as a "Canadian"? Should we not be able to do something about this citizen of convenience business?
You mean like Neal Houston, TK Hayes, Liz Mann and all the other born Canadians who have abandoned their homeland for somewhere else? Should they all be stripped of their citizenship of convenience?
Richards 0
QuoteThe question is how Omar Khadr came to those viewpoints. Some of that history might deminish some of his guilt, specially at that age.
If a child is raised in a cult invironment in which it is constantly told that killing dogs by slitting their throat and let them bleed to death is the right thing to do, it has hard to 100% fault that child at 15 slitting the throat of a dog and watching it bleed to death.
Fair enough to say that with respect to the legal trial, but why does he suddenly want to come live in the society he hates so much? Why will we let him? He apparently spent his whole life over their in terroristan, he has been indoctrinated to hate us, he fought against us, he has wet dreams about destroying us or subjugating us to islam yet, we have to accept him because "he is one of us Canadians". He's no Canadian! Just because his bitch mother happened to be squatting here when she squeezed him out of her stink-hole does not make this twat-turd one of us.
Incedentally if he has been sooooo misled about our society and in his heart beleives that we are so bad then why when he was caught over there did he suddenly have so much faith in our society that the first thing he did was pull out his passport and go "I am Canadian....see...see...I have passport that says so"? He is a lot more switched on than people give him credit for. He is not a lost little boy! He is a thug who knows exactly how to play our naive society's heart strings, and he knows for a fact that we are too PC to do anything but bend over for the assfucking that him and his family are giving us.
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
Richards 0
QuoteYou mean like Neal Houston, TK Hayes, Liz Mann and all the other born Canadians who have abandoned their homeland for somewhere else? Should they all be stripped of their citizenship of convenience?
If you want to live somewhere else then live somewhere else. If these people have abandoned the country to live somewhere else then they should make a choice. In particular canadians do take exception to this citizen of convenience crap where immigrants come here, shit out a few babies and then leave to go pursue whatever agenda they want (including killing canadians and americans), or simply contributing to their own economy while coming back here whenever they need surgury or need to get out of dodge. When they fuck up anywhere else they suddenly become "patriotic canadians" and scream about their fucking charter rights.
But I suppose because that bothers me I must be a racist or anti-immigrant. Anyone who doesn't bend to take their PC assfucking must be a racist.
This peice of dogshit omar should be given a fair trial, but if the results of that fair trial are that he is a legal combatant and not a criminal, then at the least he should be forced to stay in the region he so desperately wanted to fight for. And if you want to try putting the hypocrite label on me, allow me to head that off by saying that I would want the same thing for any german citizen who left to fight for hitler...stay in germany.
We should have the right to strip the citizenship of immigrants who clearly did not come here in good faith, or who clearly have reconsidered their devotion to this country.
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
SkyDekker 1,465
QuoteFair enough to say that with respect to the legal trial, but why does he suddenly want to come live in the society he hates so much? Why will we let him? He apparently spent his whole life over their in terroristan, he has been indoctrinated to hate us, he fought against us, he has wet dreams about destroying us or subjugating us to islam yet, we have to accept him because "he is one of us Canadians". He's no Canadian! Just because his bitch mother happened to be squatting here when she squeezed him out of her stink-hole does not make this twat-turd one of us.
Incedentally if he has been sooooo misled about our society and in his heart beleives that we are so bad then why when he was caught over there did he suddenly have so much faith in our society that the first thing he did was pull out his passport and go "I am Canadian....see...see...I have passport that says so"? He is a lot more switched on than people give him credit for. He is not a lost little boy! He is a thug who knows exactly how to play our naive society's heart strings, and he knows for a fact that we are too PC to do anything but bend over for the assfucking that him and his family are giving us.
Interesting to see how much hatred is in your post, condeming the hatred from somebody else....
Richards 0
QuoteInteresting to see how much hatred is in your post, condeming the hatred from somebody else....
Hatred? no. Anger certainly, rage perhaps. As others have pointed out he may be able to claim that he was a legal combattant, and I would respect the courts ruling on that. What I am furious about is the fact that him and his family had the audacity to claim that canada owed them something despite the fact that they were quite willing to fight against our troops. I would have no problem with him being an enemy combattant and fighting against us if he wanted to live there. I respect any soldier of any country who fought regardless of which side they were on. Even in the case of the taliban troops (not neccessarily al-qaeda despite the talibans support of al-qaeda) while I despise the government they fought for, I beleive that they should be treated humanely when captured.
But if he felt so strongly about the taliaban and afghanistan that he would fight for them against us, why now does he suddenly want to come and live in canada? Even if afghanistan is not taliban anymore there are plenty of other countries in that region where he will be surrounded by like-minded individuals and feel right at home? Where does he get the balls to say that the very country he would take up arms against now owes him something simply because he had the fortune of slipping through the cracks earlier on.
Why would it be morally wrong to pull in the welcome matt and tell him to seek residency elsewhere?
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
It's sad really. To be honest, if I was an American I would be pissed off at Canada for this sort of crap. If you were turning a blind eye while canada-hating terrorists were raising funds in your country to plan attacks against us I would be furious.
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