Charges against Omar Kadr in Guantanamo dropped

[billvon 3,120]

>Charge him with treason.

Agreed. Charge him with something, let him have his day in court, and if he's found guilty, then put him away for life.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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But he's not. He represents himself as a Canadian and thus is a traitor to this country.

I agree, he should be extradicted and out on trial here in Canada.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I don't think he will be convicted if sent to Canada. The coalition forces invaded a sovereign country and some of the people there resisted. Kadr was captured before the new civilian government was established, so he was definitely not breaking any Afghan law. The fact that we have determined that it was a "righteous war doesn't change a thing. The losers of a war are not criminals just by being on the losing side.
While the act of being in a gun battle will usually land a youth in adult court, being indoctrinated into an army as a child and being attacked while in the presence of your father is a situation which will weigh heavily on the supreme court. I very much doubt they would allow him to be tried as an adult, and any sentence handed down (if any) would be already deemed to have been served.

[NCclimber 0]

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What was a teenager from suburban Toronto doing in Afghanistan fighting along side of Al Queda and the Taliban? Real Canadians don't just venture off to Afghanistan to join in a Jihad against the west.

I wonder what folks from Canada, Australia, Ireland, the USA, New Zealand, South Africa, West Indies, India, Poland, Palestine... were doing in Britain in 1940 fighting off an invader? Perhaps they should have stayed home.

Nice bit of trollery, perfesser.

Is Canada part of the "Afghani Commonwealth"?

[kallend 2,150]

My point?

In 1940 the US Neutrality Acts made joining the armed forces of a ‘belligerent nation’ a criminal offense. The punishment for anyone unfortunate enough to be caught trying to join the RAF was stiff – a $20,000 fine, a ten-year prison sentence, and loss of US citizenship.

How many Americans who flew in the Battle of Britain were ever charged? None. They are treated as heros and movies are made about them (Tom Cruise plays Billy Fiske in "The Few", for example).

There's a double standard at work here.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I'm not sure why you are talking about some US Neutrality Act as if it should apply in this case. Kadr is not an American, he's Canadian. Sure he was captured by US forces and is being held in a US detention center (with it's own controvesial history). But if you want to bring up how things worked during WWII ... don't forget that most nations shot people for treason back then. But now in our bleeding heart socialistic anti-American society up here north of the border ... many think of this Kadr guy as a victim. He's no victim ... he's a prisoner of war and a traitor to Canada.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Richards 0]

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The USA most certainly did NOT make a decision to send people to fly for the RAF in 1940, quite the opposite.

Right, forgot, you came into the war late.

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ONLY in restrospect are those few Americans who did now considered to be heroes.

[Richards 0]

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I don't think he will be convicted if sent to Canada. The coalition forces invaded a sovereign country and some of the people there resisted. Kadr was captured before the new civilian government was established, so he was definitely not breaking any Afghan law. The fact that we have determined that it was a "righteous war doesn't change a thing. The losers of a war are not criminals just by being on the losing side.

It is the idea that he would go over in the first place to serve with the taliban knowing their hostile stance towards the west. Even if he is not charged, it leaves many people including myself a little bit put off when a guy who made clear his disdain for western vaules and way of life by going over there to support islamic jihad, expects to be able to come back here and live in our society.

He hates the west (including canada), yet was willing to live here and be educated here. When he got what he wanted he left to go fight against the west (and if you look at al queda's rhetoric he had to know he was supporting plans against the west including canada). Now that things didn't work out he first pulls out the passport of the country he abandoned, he demands consular support, and wants to come back. If he beleives so much in islamic jihad he can certainly find it somewhere over there. Why now does he want to come here?

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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[kallend 2,150]

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What was a teenager from suburban Toronto doing in Afghanistan fighting along side of Al Queda and the Taliban? Real Canadians don't just venture off to Afghanistan to join in a Jihad against the west.

I wonder what folks from Canada, Australia, Ireland, the USA, New Zealand, South Africa, West Indies, India, Poland, Palestine... were doing in Britain in 1940 fighting off an invader? Perhaps they should have stayed home.

Nice bit of trollery, perfesser.

Is Canada part of the "Afghani Commonwealth"?

Are you suggesting the USA was part of the British Empire in 1940?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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Would they be viewed as heroes if they went to fight for the German army, against American troops? Would you want them to come back after the fact and benefit from living in America?

THAT depends on how useful they would be. The USA welcomed Wernher von Braun with open arms and he was responsible for killing a whole lot of Allied civilians and servicemen.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ypelchat 0]

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Don't forget Quebec politicians were seen last summer standing along side people waving their Hamas and Hezbollah flags in Montreal.

I think you're over-reacting, a little bit..., Steve.

A few of them were, yes, but not the majority, as your post seem to suggest... Yes, there were some Hamas and Palestinian supporters, but only a few. Quebec's people, are peaceful people. Yes, we prefer peaceful/negociated solutions, to every conflicts. And when people are being held, without being charged of any crime, for more than five years, then, yes, we are concerned.... Wouldn't you?

Justice, can just not be adapted to a particuliar situation, or a political view, or situation, to suit a particuliar purpose, or the will of a particuliar government... A government, or justice system, acting this way, is the perfect definition of a dictatorship...

Justice is justice. Plain and simple.
In a Canada court of law, we are innocent, until proven guilty.
That's why, Canada, is the best country in the world to live in.

FYI, Steve, Quebec city (Stadaconé) was founded 1508... and Montreal (Hochelaga) was first visited, in 1535, but the city was founded in 1642. Long before the war with England took place.
Quebec city, will celebrate it's 400th anniversary in 2008...

Everyone's welcome.

(My own ancesters settled, here, around 1561).

Yves.

[Richards 0]

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Would they be viewed as heroes if they went to fight for the German army, against American troops? Would you want them to come back after the fact and benefit from living in America?

THAT depends on how useful they would be. The USA welcomed Wernher von Braun with open arms and he was responsible for killing a whole lot of Allied civilians and servicemen.

[NCclimber 0]

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Would they be viewed as heroes if they went to fight for the German army, against American troops? Would you want them to come back after the fact and benefit from living in America?

THAT depends on how useful they would be. The USA welcomed Wernher von Braun with open arms and he was responsible for killing a whole lot of Allied civilians and servicemen.

Red Herring is not on today's menu.

[NCclimber 0]

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What was a teenager from suburban Toronto doing in Afghanistan fighting along side of Al Queda and the Taliban? Real Canadians don't just venture off to Afghanistan to join in a Jihad against the west.

I wonder what folks from Canada, Australia, Ireland, the USA, New Zealand, South Africa, West Indies, India, Poland, Palestine... were doing in Britain in 1940 fighting off an invader? Perhaps they should have stayed home.

Nice bit of trollery, perfesser.

Is Canada part of the "Afghani Commonwealth"?

Are you suggesting the USA was part of the British Empire in 1940?

No. Nearly all of the other countries you listed were members. Considering you are from England, I wonder why you would wonder about those countries' involvement.

[kallend 2,150]

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Would they be viewed as heroes if they went to fight for the German army, against American troops? Would you want them to come back after the fact and benefit from living in America?

THAT depends on how useful they would be. The USA welcomed Wernher von Braun with open arms and he was responsible for killing a whole lot of Allied civilians and servicemen.

Red Herring is not on today's menu.

So pointing out an inconvenient double standard is just a "red herring". OK.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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Would they be viewed as heroes if they went to fight for the German army, against American troops? Would you want them to come back after the fact and benefit from living in America?

THAT depends on how useful they would be. The USA welcomed Wernher von Braun with open arms and he was responsible for killing a whole lot of Allied civilians and servicemen.

Red Herring is not on today's menu.

So pointing out an inconvenient double standard is just a "red herring". OK.

If you say so.

[kallend 2,150]

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Would they be viewed as heroes if they went to fight for the German army, against American troops? Would you want them to come back after the fact and benefit from living in America?

THAT depends on how useful they would be. The USA welcomed Wernher von Braun with open arms and he was responsible for killing a whole lot of Allied civilians and servicemen.

Red Herring is not on today's menu.

So pointing out an inconvenient double standard is just a "red herring". OK.

If you say so.

Your memory must be failing. It was you that wrote that, just a few posts back..

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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It is the idea that he would go over in the first place to serve with the taliban knowing their hostile stance towards the west.

He went over there in 1988 when he was two years old. I don't think he was all that clear on the Taliban's stance towards the west.

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Even if he is not charged, it leaves many people including myself a little bit put off when a guy who made clear his disdain for western values and way of life by going over there to support islamic jihad, expects to be able to come back here and live in our society.

It can put you off all you want. He was born here, he has all the rights of citizenship, and there is no process available for us to deprive him of that.

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He hates the west (including canada), yet was willing to live here and be educated here.

Wrong again. He received his education in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

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When he got what he wanted he left to go fight against the west (and if you look at al queda's rhetoric he had to know he was supporting plans against the west including Canada).

This is getting tiresome. He didn't leave to fight against the west; he left because his diapers needed changing and his mother was going to Pakistan.

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Now that things didn't work out he first pulls out the passport of the country he abandoned,

two year olds don't abandon anything.

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he demands consular support, and wants to come back. If he believes so much in islamic jihad he can certainly find it somewhere over there. Why now does he want to come here?

Because he has just spent five years in a jail cell and will play whatever cards he can to get out of there. I would too. As i said earlier, this guy is a big problem for us but we have to deal with that problem within the boundaries of what makes us a just nation. Abandoning the constitution is not an option.

[NCclimber 0]

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Red Herring is not on today's menu.

So pointing out an inconvenient double standard is just a "red herring". OK.

If you say so.

Your memory must be failing. It was you that wrote that, just a few posts back..

I wrote "So pointing out an inconvenient double standard is just a "red herring". OK", just a few posts back?

Which post are you talking about?

And just so your up to speed, my quip about red herring was made because you used of former German scientist, that we inherited, when the discussion was about people leaving their home country to fight for the enemy.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Omar Khadr is not a victim. He knew exactly what he was doing when he decided to bare arms against the allies of the nation of his birth. Pussy footing Canadians need to get their heads out of their rear ends and stop thinking of this man as a victim.

Due to an abusive up bringing I left home at age 15. Thanks to the support of a few select relatives I was able to continue my education and not become a street thug. But it's amazing how fast someone can grow up when they are forced to. Just because it's the norm now-a-days for youth to continue to live at home well into the 20s and 30s - people are capable of acting like adults at age 15.

Omar Khadr is an enemy soldier and a traitor to Canada and he should be treated as such. He should not be freed and he should definitely not be returned to Canada. Please America, do not free this man and let him continue to wage his war on our western civilization. He decided to give up his rights as a Canadian citizen the day he decided to bare arms against us. He is not a victim. He knew exactly what he was doing.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Richards 0]

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He went over there in 1988 when he was two years old. I don't think he was all that clear on the Taliban's stance towards the west.

So his parents basically birthed him here so he could get the passport for convenience in the future. Is this supposed to make him someone that canada should care about? I certainly would be fine with forgetting about him and leaving him in guantanamo

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It can put you off all you want. He was born here, he has all the rights of citizenship, and there is no process available for us to deprive him of that.

There should be. If someone's parents birth someone here and then immediately whisk him off to their homeland because now he is a "canadian", we should be able to strip him of his citizenship. There has to be some process to eliminate this citizen of convenience crap. His family are not immigrants, they're parasites who never should have been let in, and should be forced out.

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This is getting tiresome. He didn't leave to fight against the west; he left because his diapers needed changing and his mother was going to Pakistan.

He should have stayed then. We can't have this nonsense of ..."come to canada, fuck, get pregnant and squeeze out a pup and...bingo! Canada now has lifelong obligation to you wherever you go."

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Because he has just spent five years in a jail cell and will play whatever cards he can to get out of there. I would too. As i said earlier, this guy is a big problem for us but we have to deal with that problem within the boundaries of what makes us a just nation. Abandoning the constitution is not an option.

[Richards 0]

What I cannot understand is how any American can get on this forum and defend this guy yet some are doing it. Doesn't it bother anyone that Canada provides haven to international thugs who would be thrilled to kill americans.

There was an interview with Omars Mother and sister that I watched on the news. They openly stated that they hated america and would support any war against it.
When asked about some of the horrible executions the taliban inflicted on people they stated that these people had offended islam and deserved it.
When they talked about september 11 they refered to it as a good thing. When asked if they felt bad about the lives lost they were OK with that.

During the interview they showed them the footage of one of the men who had jumped from the trade center to avoid burning to death; it showed the long fall as the man plumetted to his death and the interviewer asked something to the effect of .....
"do you feel any sympathy for this man, for what he must have been going through?" The sister responded ..."it made me feel good, the americans deserved that"

They stated that they would be proud to have their brothers/sons die as martyrs for islam. They seem to conveniently lose their passport every time they go to the middle east (the government finally stopped giving them more). The father died fighting against the americans, a three brothers were captured fighting against the americans. One was badly wounded an is now back in the very part of the world he hates, soaking up our health care dollars that should be going to real human beings.

Yet Canada treats them like Canadians with all the rights and priviledges, while they soak up our services and plan creative new ways to kill americans from the safety of canada. It's embarassing.

Where does it stop? When does Canada finally have the balls to say enough is enough? Alternately when does the US finally tell canada to shape up and stop harbouring threats against them?

The Khadrs are not the only famous american-killing family. Khadiga Gurhan the wife of Somali warlord Mohamed Farah Aideed (the guy the americans were going after when their choppers were shot down and 18 were killed), was living in London Ontario at the time working with other somalian newcomers to defraud the welfare system to send money back to support her husbands militia. The canadian government did not have the balls to deport her when they found out what she was doing. When you look at the picture of that dead american soldier being dragged through the streets of mogadishu, while Aideeds wife was here getting funds for his militia as the canadian government stood by and did nothing (out of fear of losing special interest votes) does it not piss you off?

These are the more famous cases. There are plenty more that are not that famous.

Why do we let this happen? Why will I be called a closet racist using this as a red herring to forward some insidious agenda, simply because I am sick to death of this shit? Why can I not dare suggest that we remove these parasites? Because of the Charter? We as an intelligent society are trained to question everything. We can question authority, we can question our morals, we can even question the existence of god, yet no-one should dare question the supreme wisdom of those who wrote the charter/constitution. If hyothetically, some mathematical proof showed that by following the charter/constitution we will face disaster, people will still stick to it because it is our new god, and we will follow it blindly and stupidly!

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Richards 0]

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He should not be freed and he should definitely not be returned to Canada. Please America, do not free this man and let him continue to wage his war on our western civilization. He decided to give up his rights as a Canadian citizen the day he decided to bare arms against us. He is not a victim. He knew exactly what he was doing.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

You and I are on the same page when it comes to this parasite. Unfortunately 1/2 the country thinks otherwise and look at him as some victim of America (and it sickens me to hear the constant anti-American rhetoric coming from many Canadians ... America has it's issues but they are a lot closer to us than let's say a nation like Pakistan). Gitmo has it's issues ... but this is not an Arar case. The punk was caught fighting in a war zone and should therefore be treated as a prisoner of war and a traitor to Canada.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Richards 0]

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sickens me to hear the constant anti-American rhetoric coming from many Canadians ... America has it's issues but they are a lot closer to us than let's say a nation like Pakistan

Agreed. The whole anti-americanism thing has always been a sore point with me. I have some family in the US although most are in Canada. I recall when I was younger it was fun to go back and forth with each-other; them mimicking us for "aboot" and "eh", while we gave back about "y'all" and "ruf" but it was always good natured ribbing. As time passed I noticed an ugly trend within Canada where our culture developed this obsession with bashing americans. I will state when I feel the US is wrong but I always found the whole US bashing thing to reflect badly on us.

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Gitmo has it's issues ... but this is not an Arar case. The punk was caught fighting in a war zone and should therefore be treated as a prisoner of war and a traitor to Canada.