Iran: Street Fighting Men (from the Strategy Page)

[Guest]

All emphasis is mine - mh

Street Fighting Men
May 31, 2007: Europe threatened Iran with more sanctions if work on nuclear weapons does not stop. Iran is ignoring these demands, believing having nukes is essential to preserving the Islamic dictatorship in Iran. The Iranian clerics have much to fear, and not just from foreign threats. Their incompetence and corruption has ruined the economy. Unemployment among young Iranians is about 50 percent. Some 40 percent of the population is on the government payroll, and there is not enough oil money to pay off all the people who do support the government (about a third of the population). Thus the government keeps printing more money, and the result in an inflation rate of over 20 percent. The Iranian people are getting increasingly restless, and, more ominously, surly. The government has relied on street level gangs of young Islamic conservatives to discourage such behavior. But it isn't working, and there have been more and more street battles. The government can more readily call in reinforcements, and has won all these brawls so far. But if the government starts losing them, it's the beginning of the end. Some of the kids have cell phones, a technology the government tried to keep out. The fear is that a street level disturbance will result in the protestors calling in their own reinforcements, defeating the security forces, and spreading. The clerics fear an event similar to the one that suddenly destroyed communist rule in Russia and Eastern Europe 18 years ago. For that reason, much attention and cash is spent on the street level muscle (the Basij militia), and a constant willingness to use physical violence against any protests or "un-Islamic" behavior. The universities are being purged of any staff suspected of being disloyal to the clergy. Any contacts with foreigners are being discouraged, as the Iranians fear U.S. groups that go around giving workshops on how to overthrow a dictatorship using non-violent means. Such workshops are held for Iranians across the Gulf, and many Iranians sneak over to participate.
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Looks like the mad mullahs won't be running Iran much longer. Hope it happens before they get nukes.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Gawain 0]

This is one of the reasons why I don't agree with the "invade Iran" idea.

Here's a little discussion about a supposed sabotage program underway to thwart Iran's nuclear progress.
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_news&Number=295516397&page=3&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&part=1

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Botellines 0]

OK, so you are advocating to sabotage industries in a sovereign country just because they don´t comply with U.S designs.

Are you one of those who say that thing of "they hate us because we are free"?

[kallend 2,184]

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OK, so you are advocating to sabotage industries in a sovereign country just because they don´t comply with U.S designs.

Are you one of those who say that thing of "they hate us because we are free"?

The OP told us back in February that Iran can't even make sniper rifles. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2676442#2676442 So why does he think they can make nukes?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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OK, so you are advocating to sabotage industries in a sovereign country just because they don´t comply with U.S designs.

Are you one of those who say that thing of "they hate us because we are free"?

You want to blame America first ? OK, that is fine. I will cancell your vote however, choosing leaders that understant there are those in this world that want us dead just because we exisist. Just because we will not bow to thier religious beliefs. I will not stand by and wait to see IF they are going to try and kill us if I do not have too.

So yes, I advocate just what you said

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,184]

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OK, so you are advocating to sabotage industries in a sovereign country just because they don´t comply with U.S designs.

Are you one of those who say that thing of "they hate us because we are free"?

You want to blame America first ? OK, that is fine. I will cancell your vote however, choosing leaders that understant there are those in this world that want us dead just because we exisist. Just because we will not bow to thier religious beliefs. I will not stand by and wait to see IF they are going to try and kill us if I do not have too.

So yes, I advocate just what you said

They hate us because of what WE did to their country in 1953. They hate us for OUR support of the Shah. They hate us for arming and assisting Saddam Hussein after his invasion of their country.

GWB declared 3 countries to be "the axis of evil" in 2002, and promptly invaded one of them. What kind of a message do you think Iran took from that action? OF course they want something to deter the USA. The USA under Bush is the world's most aggressive nation and has explicitly declared Iran to be in its sights.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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OK, so you are advocating to sabotage industries in a sovereign country just because they don´t comply with U.S designs.

Are you one of those who say that thing of "they hate us because we are free"?

He told us back in February that Iran can't even make sniper rifles. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2676442#2676442 So why does he think they can make nukes?

Excuse me? I wrote no such thing.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Amazon 7]

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I will not stand by and wait to see IF they are going to try and kill us if I do not have too.

So yes, I advocate just what you said

Wow.. you are finally joining up????

Or are you just willing to send more of OTHER people off to die to support YOUR Hawkishness

[Gawain 0]

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OK, so you are advocating to sabotage industries in a sovereign country just because they don´t comply with U.S designs.

Are you one of those who say that thing of "they hate us because we are free"?

I advocated no such thing. I simply pointed out that something was reported about it, and it's not only a US effort by the way.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

Quote

OK, so you are advocating to sabotage industries in a sovereign country just because they don´t comply with U.S designs.

Are you one of those who say that thing of "they hate us because we are free"?

He told us back in February that Iran can't even make sniper rifles. www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2676442#2676442 So why does he think they can make nukes?

Excuse me? I wrote no such thing.

Excuse me - the OP posted that.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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They hate us because of what WE did to their country in 1953. They hate us for OUR support of the Shah. They hate us for arming and assisting Saddam Hussein after his invasion of their country.

Most of the youth in Iran today don't give a sh*t about our role with the UK in the 1950s and Operation Ajex. The US, by the way, formally apologized in 2000. In fact, most Iranians have no issue with the US what-so-ever. This is a conflict of government doctrines. The US is not going to invade. In fact, I suspect that any real overt action is not in the works at all. Time is on our side with this. The regime in Iran is imploding on itself, it is not sustaining or nourishing it's country to be anything. Persians have more pride than that.

Quote

GWB declared 3 countries to be "the axis of evil" in 2002, and promptly invaded one of them. What kind of a message do you think Iran took from that action? OF course they want something to deter the USA. The USA under Bush is the world's most aggressive nation and has explicitly declared Iran to be in its sights.

Iran could've taken the message the same way Qaddafi did. At least he had a sense of vision and legacy. The mullahs in Iran can not see past 6 inches in front of their faces.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[kallend 2,184]

Quote

Quote

They hate us because of what WE did to their country in 1953. They hate us for OUR support of the Shah. They hate us for arming and assisting Saddam Hussein after his invasion of their country.

Most of the youth in Iran today don't give a sh*t about our role with the UK in the 1950s and Operation Ajex. The US, by the way, formally apologized in 2000. In fact, most Iranians have no issue with the US what-so-ever. This is a conflict of government doctrines. The US is not going to invade. In fact, I suspect that any real overt action is not in the works at all. Time is on our side with this. The regime in Iran is imploding on itself, it is not sustaining or nourishing it's country to be anything. Persians have more pride than that.

Quote

GWB declared 3 countries to be "the axis of evil" in 2002, and promptly invaded one of them. What kind of a message do you think Iran took from that action? OF course they want something to deter the USA. The USA under Bush is the world's most aggressive nation and has explicitly declared Iran to be in its sights.

Iran could've taken the message the same way Qaddafi did.

How relevant is that? Libya was NOT part of Bush's Axis of Evil.

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At least he had a sense of vision and legacy. The mullahs in Iran can not see past 6 inches in front of their faces.

Is it your inclination too, to capitulate when threatened?

We have already seen N. Korea's response to Bush's threats. They ARE a nuclear nation now. Good work, Georgie.

Bush's Axis of Evil speech was yet another example of his administration's tendency to action with no significant analysis of the likely outcome.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Gawain 0]

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Iran could've taken the message the same way Qaddafi did.

How relevant is that? Libya was NOT part of Bush's Axis of Evil.

[kallend 2,184]

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Bush's Axis of Evil speech was yet another example of his administration's tendency to action with no significant analysis of the likely outcome.

I think the outcome is multifaceted. There is no likely outcome with regards to Iran or DPRK. I would give Iran a more hopeful score than DPRK right now, but you can certainly see from the rhetoric surrounding these two countries, they are clamoring for attention, and not much else.

I think Iran's and NK's reponse to Bush is EXACTLY what any thinking person would have predicted.

We know how superficial Bush's outcomes analysis has been, just by looking at the situation in Iraq. The intel suggesting the outcome we actually have was systematically ignored (and kept classified until recently) by his administration.

And then we have the "just another 6 months" mantra, repeated over and over for the last 4 years.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.