Scenting and preventative detention in Germany

[akarunway 1]

http://www.kyivpost.com/bn/26622/ This reeks. Do they have a lil Gitmo in germany?>

"Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble has also said that anti-globalization activists deemed to be "potentially violent" may be detained for up to two weeks during the summit in so-called "preventative detention."

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[IanHarrop 42]

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http://www.kyivpost.com/bn/26622/ This reeks. Do they have a lil Gitmo in germany?

They can use the real one.... after all maybe Germany's laws count there considering the USA's don't

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Kennedy 0]

OK boys and girls, here is your assignment.

You know that groups of people are planning violence vandalism and worse, and you know where. They have done it before and have stated they plan to do it again. You have placed all the physical security you can at the target site (fences, guards, dogs, etc).

You know from experience that physical security endangers protesters and your personnel.

Do you (A) keep tabs on the people who are planning to commit crime and arrest them if you get probably cause, or (B) let them commit the crime and then try to find and arrest them after the damage and injury has already happened?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[narcimund 0]

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Do you (A) keep tabs on the people who are planning to commit crime and arrest them if you get probably cause, or (B) let them commit the crime and then try to find and arrest them after the damage and injury has already happened?

That depends. What does the law say to do?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Kennedy 0]

Well, I'm no German and I'm no lawyer, and I kow very little about German law, but I do know that in most places, consipiracy to commit crime is a crime. It falls under the category of inchoate offences.

I've never heard of scenting before, and the dogs in my local law enforcement agencies tend to use disturbed area rather than scent to track. I can see how leaving your scent behind can be construed as abandoned property, so you have no expectation of privacy, but like I said I don't know the particulars over there.

To me, it sounds like they are aggressively pursuing investigations of conspiracy to commit crimes, and using the tools they have to prevent damage, injury, and death from occurring.

Would anyone here prefer they leave the nice little rioters and firebombers alone until something or someone goes up in flames?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[narcimund 0]

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Would anyone here prefer they leave the nice little rioters and firebombers alone until something or someone goes up in flames?

I prefer to live in a world where firebombers don't hurt people. I'd like not to be firebombed thank you very much.

However, I -ALSO- prefer to live in a world where governments restrain themselves with very restrictive policies and don't capriciously start acting out when people get scared or -- even worse -- scare people to justify acting out.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[billvon 3,111]

>Would anyone here prefer they leave the nice little rioters and
>firebombers alone until something or someone goes up in flames?

Would you prefer to leave the "peaceful, law abiding" gun owners alone until someone's 2 year old is shot in the head? I suspect you would. Why? Because most americans value our civil liberties, and want to retain them even if there is some risk in doing so.

(Edited to add - yes, this is germany. But I assume you'd feel the same way if you lived there.)

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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Would anyone here prefer they leave the nice little rioters and firebombers alone until something or someone goes up in flames?

Yes

There are reasons why HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE turn up to these events in protest.

[Amazon 7]

Wave to the cameras for us... ok

[Zipp0 1]

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Would anyone here prefer they leave the nice little rioters and firebombers alone until something or someone goes up in flames?

Sometimes peaceful protest isn't enough.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Well, I'm no German and I'm no lawyer, and I kow very little about German law, but I do know that in most places, consipiracy to commit crime is a crime. It falls under the category of inchoate offences.

Germans have no problem with prior restraint - pretending to be a Nazi can get you arrested, and I believe they're one of many Euro nations that will go after holocaust deniers.

So in that context, this is probably perfectly kosher.

But not very American for those who still believe in the BoR.

[Kennedy 0]

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Would anyone here prefer they leave the nice little rioters and firebombers alone until something or someone goes up in flames?

Yes

There are reasons why HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE turn up to these events in protest.

What has that got to do with preventing actis of violence, that some might classify as terrorism, befre they happen? No one is talking about rounding up hundreds of thousands of people just because they plan on showing up and protesting.

What the authorities ARE talking about is finding the people who have been violent before and/or have clearly stated that they plan on bringing violence to the demonstration. THOSE are the people who the dogs are after, and who face going to jail during the summit. Or does someone here think there are hundreds of thousands of german police dogs out there keeping tabs on every possible protester?

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

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Would anyone here prefer they leave the nice little rioters and firebombers alone until something or someone goes up in flames?

Yes

There are reasons why HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE turn up to these events in protest.

What has that got to do with preventing actis of violence, that some might classify as terrorism, befre they happen? No one is talking about rounding up hundreds of thousands of people just because they plan on showing up and protesting.

What the authorities ARE talking about is finding the people who have been violent before and/or have clearly stated that they plan on bringing violence to the demonstration. THOSE are the people who the dogs are after, and who face going to jail during the summit. Or does someone here think there are hundreds of thousands of german police dogs out there keeping tabs on every possible protester?

Although arguably as ineffective as "peaceful" protest property destruction is not violence or terrorism.

[skydyvr 0]

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property destruction is not violence

Absolutely wrong by every definition.

. . =(_8^(1)

[Kennedy 0]

So it's your contention that damage to property for political ends is not violence?

Let's see what the dictionaries have to say about that one...

violence:

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Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing: crimes of violence.

"physical force used to inflict injury or damage,"

great roughness and force, often causing severe physical injury or damage

and for terrorism:

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the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

Wow, those definition all sound like rioting and firebombings for political ends would fit very nicely into "violence" and "terrorism."

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*