US military using Depleted Uranium in Iraq!

[zagijimzoo 0]

This is really Phucked Up! So who's the real threat of WMD? SH must be rolling over laughing in his grave!

3parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvCmthsTEGA&mode=related&search=

[willard 0]

Before going off your rocker over this maybe you should do some research on just what depleted uranium is and how it compares to natural urnanium.

Besides, this is old news. The military isn't the only place it's used, the civilian sector has been using it for years as well for a multitude of purposes. Hell, you have most likely been exposed to it more than any Iraqi civilian.

[kallend 2,231]

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Before going off your rocker over this maybe you should do some research on just what depleted uranium is and how it compares to natural urnanium.

Besides, this is old news. The military isn't the only place it's used, the civilian sector has been using it for years as well for a multitude of purposes. Hell, you have most likely been exposed to it more than any Iraqi civilian.

So that makes it good to spread around?

Regardless of its radioactivity level (and it IS still radioactive) is is also a toxic heavy metal for which there is no "safe" level.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[willard 0]

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Before going off your rocker over this maybe you should do some research on just what depleted uranium is and how it compares to natural urnanium.

Besides, this is old news. The military isn't the only place it's used, the civilian sector has been using it for years as well for a multitude of purposes. Hell, you have most likely been exposed to it more than any Iraqi civilian.

So that makes it good to spread around?

Regardless of its radioactivity level (and it IS still radioactive) is is also a toxic heavy metal for which there is no "safe" level.

Never implied it was good to spread around. Yes, it IS still radioactive but at a level less than naturally occurring uranium which, as I'm sure you're aware, is found in our own bodies from natural sources. We are surrounded by toxic heavy metals. There is no way around them.
"Safe" is a relative term. Some feel that any exposure to any radioactivity, even dental X-rays, is bad.
All I was pointing out is that this is not something new and killing people by the millions. This is not some big secret the government has been keeping from people. For years tech spec sheets for the weapons that use depleted uranium bullets have it spelled out right there in black & white..."depleted uranium".
Should we be using it as projectiles? Nope. Maybe someday some scientist/physicist will come up with a better alternative. How 'bout it, Kallend? Are you up to the challenge?

[dorbie 0]

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Regardless of its radioactivity level (and it IS still radioactive)

So is Carbon-14 and your body is riddled with that, heck it's in everything you eat!!!


WMD, DU is not.

[kallend 2,231]

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Regardless of its radioactivity level (and it IS still radioactive)

So is Carbon-14 and your body is riddled with that, heck it's in everything you eat!!!


WMD, DU is not.

A highly misleading reply. C14 is not a toxic heavy metal, and we don't go deliberately spreading it around in large quantities. About 1 trillionth of the carbon in the environment (and your body) is C14, and the average human male contains about 1/2 of one billionth of an ounce of C14,
so "riddled with it" is something of an extreme exaggeration. The decay energy of C14 is only 160keV, so it is a very weak emitter. The decay product is normal nitrogen.

DU, on the other hand, is an alpha emitter with energy 4.3MeV (capable of a lot of tissue damage) and its first 13 decay products are all themselves radioactive heavy elements that continue to produce damage.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Scoop 0]

I thought depleted uranium was used in all tank shells for destroying other armour

[GQ_jumper 4]

I thought depleted uranium was used in all tank shells for destroying other armour

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Actually there are very few AP(armor piercing) rounds that use DU, the one most commonly talked about is the round for the cannon on the A-10. They crack tanks open like eggs.

For everyone so against using the most effective weapon, please provide us with an alternative. maybe you can make a decent amount of money off of your idea. A-10's using DU rounds save countless Coatlition lives during the invasion(one of my best friends admits he owes his existence to A-10's using these rounds effectively), so what does everyone suggest?

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[dorbie 0]

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WMD, DU is not.

A highly misleading reply.

It was a perfectly accurate reply. Do you dispute the accuracy of the facts in my post?

Your posts on DU have been highly selective and I consider them misleading. It's quite shocking to see a Physics Professor pander to the kind of anti-DU hysteria that's been posted here in the past.

[dorbie 0]

Good to hear of a story where this is saving lives. This is the real reason DU is used. It's a self-sharpening penetrator and is the most effective weapon for the job.

To call DU a WMD is simultaneously frivolous and obscene.

[niu 0]

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Actually there are very few AP(armor piercing) rounds that use DU,

Really?:http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m829a1.htm

[akarunway 1]

Could it possibly be related to this? >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war_syndrome] Depleted uranium

Approximate area and major clashes in which DU rounds were used.Depleted uranium (DU) was used in tank kinetic energy penetrator and autocannon rounds on a large scale for the first time in the Gulf War. DU munitions often burn when they impact a hard target, producing toxic combustion products. [32] The toxicity, effects, distribution, and exposure involved have all been the subject of a lengthy and complex debate.

Because uranium is a heavy metal and chemical toxicant with nephrotoxic (kidney-damaging) [33], teratogenic (birth defect-causing) [1] [2], and potentially carcinogenic [34] properties, uranium exposure is associated with a variety of illnesses [35]. The chemical toxicological hazard posed by uranium dwarfs its radiological hazard because it is only weakly radioactive, and depleted uranium even less so.

Early studies of depleted uranium aerosol exposure assumed that uranium combustion product particles would quickly settle out of the air [36] and thus could not affect populations more than a few kilometers from target areas [3], and that such particles, if inhaled, would remain undissolved in the lung for a great length of time and thus could be detected in urine [4]. Uranyl ion contamination has been found on and around depleted uranium targets [5].

DU has recently been recognized as a neurotoxin [6]. In 2005, depleted uranium was shown to be a neurotoxin in rats [7].

In 2001, a study was published in Military Medicine that found DU in the urine of Gulf War veterans [8]. Another study, published by Health Physics in 2004, also showed DU in the urine of Gulf War veterans [9]. A study of UK veterans who thought they might have been exposed to DU showed aberrations in their white blood cell chromosomes. [10] Mice immune cells exposed to uranium exhibit abnormalities [11].

Increases in the rate of birth defects for children born to Gulf War veterans have been reported. A 2001 survey of 15,000 U.S. Gulf War combat veterans and 15,000 control veterans found that the Gulf War veterans were 1.8 (fathers) to 2.8 (mothers) times as likely to report having children with birth defects [12]. In early 2004, the UK Pensions Appeal Tribunal Service attributed birth defect claims from a February 1991 Gulf War combat veteran to depleted uranium poisoning [37] [38].

In 2005, uranium metalworkers at a Bethlehem plant near Buffalo, New York, exposed to frequent occupational uranium inhalation risks, were alleged by non-scientific sources to have the same patterns of symptoms and illness as Gulf War Syndrome victims [39] [40].

In the Balkans war zone where depleted uranium was also used, an absence of problems is seen by some as evidence of DU muntions' safety. "Independent investigations by the World Health Organization, European Commission, European Parliament, United Nations Environment Programme, United Kingdom Royal Society, and the Health Council of the Netherlands all discounted any association between depleted uranium and leukemia or other medical problems." [41] Since then, there has been a resurgence of interest in the health effects of depleted uranium, especially since it has recently been linked with etc etc etc

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[dorbie 0]

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Could it possibly be related to this? >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war_syndrome

That syndrome if it even exists has been blamed on many things from vaccinations to the denaturing of aspartame in soft drinks (to name but two of a dozen 'causes'). DU is just another bugbear for the crazies to blame with inadequate evidence and extremely one sided misleading assessments. For every cause you will find compelling 'reports' by passionate people pointing the finger at their pet cause, all teh reports are deeply flawed and of course mutually contradictory.

[joedirt 0]

Yeah, whenever I hear someone say what caused "Gulf War Syndrome" my B.S. meter goes way up.

[dorbie 0]

Indeed, go look at the section labeled "Controversy" and see the two graphs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_war_syndrome#Controversy

Read carefully.

Life is messy & complex, sometimes too complex for people to figure this stuff out. We are not well served by pressure groups with a chip on their shoulder and those who pander to them.

[zagijimzoo 0]

Quote: Before going off your rocker over this maybe you should do some research on just what depleted uranium is and how it compares to natural urnanium.

Maybe you should do some research yourself! Obliviously you haven’t! We’re not talking about radiation hazards here like dental x-rays. Holding DU next to your skin has very little effect. The radiation is weak! Intake through skin is very low! Because its 70% denser than lead and low radiation that’s why its used in counter weights in aircraft, radiation shields in medical radiation therapy machines and containers for the transport of radioactive materials

But that’s not the issue here! We’re talking about the exposure intake by ingestion and inhalation of DU. They are 2 different things!

http://www.who.int/ionizing_radiation/pub_meet/ir_pubs/en/index.html

Exposure to DU
On average, approximately 90 μg of uranium exists in the human body from normal
intakes of food, water; and air; approximately 66% is found in the skeleton, 16% in the
liver, 8% in the kidneys and 10% in other tissues. The average annual intake of uranium
by adults has been estimated to be 460 g from ingestion and 0.59 g from inhalation.
Smoking two packets of cigarettes per day may allow inhalation of up to 50 ng of
uranium per day. Coal fired power stations have been reported to produce 3ng/m3 of
uranium downwind from their discharges.
Until recently, the public was not exposed to DU. With the use of DU counterweights in
aircraft, there is a possibility that people near an aircraft crash may be exposed to DU
dusts if the counterweights were to combust on impact. Significant exposure to people
in this situation is unlikely. Exposure of clean-up and emergency workers following
aircraft accidents is possible but normal occupational protection measures should
prevent any significant exposure occurring.

Health effects (for those not so lucky to have normal occupational protection measures)

Kidney
Retention of uranium in the kidney has been attributed to the creation of complexes with
proteins and phospholipids in the proximal tubules; considered to be the main site of
kidney damage. Animal studies have shown that long-term exposure to uranium causes
nephrotoxic effects that ranged from minimal microscopic lesion in the tubular
epithelium (low concentrations) to tubular necrosis (high concentrations).
Long-term studies of workers chronically exposed to uranium have reported impairment
of the kidneys (proximal tubular epithelium) that depended on the level of exposure.
Studies of members of the public chronically exposed to uranium in drinking water have
also shown similar signs of impairment of kidney function. There is some evidence that
kidney function returns to normal once the source of excessive uranium exposure has
been removed.

Reproductive and developmental effects
Reproductive and developmental effects have been reported in rodent studies ingesting
or being exposed via dermal contact to extremely high levels of soluble uranium
compounds. No such effects have been reported in humans; however very few studies
are available. Further studies are needed to clarify if these effects occur in other animals
and whether they are likely to occur in humans.

Central nervous system
Although uranium released from embedded fragments may accumulate in CNS tissue,
and some animal and human studies are suggestive of effects on CNS function, it is
difficult to draw firm conclusions from the results available. Better designed and
focussed studies are needed to clarify if any effects on CNS occur from exposure to
uranium.

Treatment of overexposure
There are no specific means to decrease the absorption of uranium from the
gastrointestinal tract or lungs, or increase its excretion. Thus general methods
appropriate to heavy metal poisoning could be applied. Similarly there is no specific
treatment for uranium poisoning and the patient should be treated based on the
symptoms observed. Dialysis may be helpful in extreme cases of kidney damage.

Conclusions

Where possible, clean up operations in impact zones should be undertaken where
there are substantial numbers of radioactive projectiles remaining and DU
contamination levels are deemed unacceptable by qualified experts. If very high
concentrations of DU dust or metal fragments are present, then areas may need to be
cordoned off until removal can be accomplished.
Young children could receive greater exposure to DU when playing in or near DU
impact sites. Typical hand-to-mouth activity could lead to high DU ingestion from
contaminated soil. Necessary preventative measures should be undertaken.

Research needs

Studies are needed that will allow better exposure assessments of children. This is
particularly important given their unique exposure scenarios such as geophagia and
hand-to-mouth activities.

There is a lack of information about the possible biological action of uranium or DU
in the following areas:
- Neurotoxicity: Other heavy metals, e.g. lead and mercury are known
neurotoxins, but only a few inconsistent studies have been conducted on
uranium. Focused studies are needed to determine if DU is neurotoxic.

Reproductive and developmental effects have been reported in single animal
studies but no studies have been conducted to determine if they can be
confirmed or that they occur in humans.
- Haematological effects: Studies are needed to determine if uptake of DU into
the bone has consequences for the bone marrow or blood forming cells.
- Genotoxicity: Some in vitro studies suggest genotoxic effects occur via the
binding of uranium compounds to DNA. This and other mechanisms causing
possible genotoxicity should be further investigated.


The Radiological Conditions in Areas of Kuwait with Residues of Depleted Uranium
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
IAEA investigation: http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/News/2003/13-571089.shtml

Radiation or (radiological hazard) is not the problem! It’s the Heavy metal toxicity that’s dangerous! Where is that Executive Summary?



Recent studies done on the War effects of DU have come out after the Gulf War! Which lasted 6 months. 90% of the DU impacted soft ground! Now we’re in a war that has lasted over 4years and is over hard ground!


Depleted Uranium Hazard Awareness - US Army Training Video
http://youtube.com/watch?v=U93PBZIyqBs

So basically every bombed out area, open food market and body of water in Baghdad is covered with DU dust!
And with the extensive home computer systems installed by SH in every Iraq household they have access to this information. And the cleanup of every other bombed out city in Iraq will be undertaken by the highly budgeted Iraq EPA. And then all 221,502 of them can apply for permanently disabled status! That’s the number of how many US Gulf War Vets where awarded! Population of Baghdad 2.7 million!


Quote: Hell, you have most likely been exposed to it more than any Iraqi civilian

You can’t be serious! What are you living in Disneyland? But thanks for reminding me to pick up some Depleted Uranium enriched pepper to sprinkle on my salad tonight!

Quote: All I was pointing out is that this is not something new and killing people by the millions

This is new! We just started using it on a large scale for the first time in the Gulf War!

And not killing anybody?

Tell that to the 221,502 US Gulf War vets awarded permanently disabled status!
Tell that to all the future Iraq children playing in it right now! Would like to hear your response in 2010 when those findings hit the fan!

Quote: This is not some big secret the government has been keeping from people

Tell that to that to the 572,000 US Gulf War soldiers that went into that region with defective equipment, inaccurate training, and contamination!


Quote: Maybe someday some scientist/physicist will come up with a better alternative

ALTERNATIVE? I got one. How about stop the war for profit US war machine!

So go to Wal-Mart and fill up your child’s sand box with Depleted Uranium Play Sand and let them play in it all day! Let me know how your children and their future children turn out! I need some guinea pigs for my research project! And we all know children never put their fingers in their mouths or rub their eyes and always wash their hands and food before eating! Because WE know…Depleted Uranium Play Sand is 100% completely safe! Sucks to be them! Ra for us!

[willard 0]

Now I see. You don't care about facts, you just want something else to bitch about concerning the current administration. Well, if it's so bad and you are so sure of yourself then why are you bitchin' here about it? Do you think anyone here can or will do anything about it?
Want the military to stop using DU? Then come up with a sustitute that will perform the same without the side effects.
Want the war to stop? The get your ass over there and convince all the factions in Iraq to resolve their differences and quit killing each other.

BTW, exactly how much DU dust would an average size person need to ingest to suffer significant health problems? Inhale? Get on their skin? What about all the lead that is being deposited there? Aluminum? Iron? Plastics? Other elements? They all have potential health risks, why aren't you complaining about these? Because "depleted uranium" sounds evil, that's why.

Admit it. You don't give a fart about the people over there, you just want something else to make the Bush-heads look even worse.

[micro 0]

Did someone say Depleted Uranium? It's not just for Iraq anymore!

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[tbrown 26]

I've seen and handled the stuff at Boeing. It's used in commercial airliners as a counterweight for wing flaps. The parts I saw were shaped and painted with the usual green primer coat. They were INCREDIBLY heavy for their size. The high density makes it ideal for the job, because a lot of weight is needed in as small a space as possible.

Only saw the stuff once or twice, no after effects to tell of, other that two healthy children, an active libido and this strange desire to jump out of airplanes.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[GQ_jumper 4]

Really?:http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m829a1.htm

[niu 0]

[micro 0]

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I've seen and handled the stuff at Boeing. It's used in commercial airliners as a counterweight for wing flaps. The parts I saw were shaped and painted with the usual green primer coat. They were INCREDIBLY heavy for their size. The high density makes it ideal for the job, because a lot of weight is needed in as small a space as possible.

Only saw the stuff once or twice, no after effects to tell of, other that two healthy children, an active libido and this strange desire to jump out of airplanes.

I think you've stumbled across THE side effect, my friend!

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[micro 0]

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And those pics that were posted showing the .50 rounds, those aren't DU, they're SLAP rounds.

SONOFABITCH!!! I've been dupped! I want my money back! Ah well... this particular shooting excursion in my neck of the woods was still quite exhilerating, even if rubbing the supposed DU rounds on my nads won't make me grow a bigger, tumor-laden schlong. In googling SLAP, I've discovered it is a Saboted Light Armor Penetrator round and you can buy one -ONE- for about 50 bucks. Pretty generous of my friend to let me have two to get on with then... as well as all of these...

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[GQ_jumper 4]

In googling SLAP, I've discovered it is a Saboted Light Armor Penetrator round and you can buy one -ONE- for about 50 bucks

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50 bucks, i think the military pays around 6 or 7 bucks a pop for em! Those rounds are great for what they were designed for though, punching holes in light armor the projectile is tungsten in a plastic jacket they travel at 4100+ feet per second IIRC. They do a great job of punching holes in brick too. We were putting holes in 3/4 inch steel with em the other day.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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[GQ_jumper 4]

This one was widely used in both Iraq wars,

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You are absolutely correct, that is a very common round and the DU rounds for the A-10 are also used very widely, simply because they are the best tool for the job. Would you expect someone to go into an accuracy competition with an old round canopy against modern acc. canopies, no. So why should't the military use the best tool for the job when they are rolling into a country where the majority of the battles are going to be against an armor threat. some modern types of armor can defeat HEAT rounds from tanks so we punch em with DU.

It seems like people think we should just roll in with less effective rounds.

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower

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