Washington D.C. Gun Ban - Update

[Andy9o8 3]

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And I like the fact that Quade lists a court that has the highest rate of being overturned. Way more than any other court in the nation. Anyone care to post the percentage of cased that court has overturned.??

Then you -do- understand why I specifically picked it. They are frequently "wrong" in their assessment of the situation. Just as the court in this D.C. gun ban issue may be.

I do understand your point - but the fact is that, until and unless the decision is overturned by the Supremes, the DC ban has been found unconstitutional by that appelate court.

But it doesn't set a NATIONAL precedent.

In 1981, Morton Grove, IL, became the first town in America to prohibit the possession of handguns. Victor Quilici, a local lawyer, sued the city (Quilici v. Morton Grove). The federal district court as well as the Apellate Court ruled the Morton Grove ordinance to be constitutional, thus upholding the gun ban. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case, letting the lower court decision stand. The ban stands to this day as village code.

This is actually a classic reason why the Supreme Court might now agree to hear the case: when different federal appellate court circuits have conflicting rulings on the same legal issue. When that happens, the S.C. often agrees to step in to either harmonize the decisions (if possible), or simply to resolve the jursidictional conflict one way or the other. Add to that, that it's a Constitutional question, and that it addresses an issue of current importance to society, and there's a pretty fair chance that at least 4 justices will vote to hear the case - which is all that's needed for the full Court to "grant certiorari" (hear the case).

[mnealtx 0]

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I do understand your point - but the fact is that, until and unless the decision is overturned by the Supremes, the DC ban has been found unconstitutional by that appelate court.

But it doesn't set a NATIONAL precedent.

No, it does not.

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In 1981, Morton Grove, IL, became the first town in America to prohibit the possession of handguns. Victor Quilici, a local lawyer, sued the city (Quilici v. Morton Grove). The federal district court as well as the Apellate Court ruled the Morton Grove ordinance to be constitutional, thus upholding the gun ban. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case, letting the lower court decision stand. The ban stands to this day as village code.

In 1982, Kennesaw Georgia passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in their home, exempting those with criminal records or religious objections.

If I recall correctly, I believe that Morton Grove's overall crime went UP after their ban, where Kennesaw's went down and has stayed down...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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And I like the fact that Quade lists a court that has the highest rate of being overturned. Way more than any other court in the nation. Anyone care to post the percentage of cased that court has overturned.??

You'll need to modify that query to percentages of cases HEARD that are overturned. The vast majority stand.

It's also the largest circuit in terms of people and land representation, so it's not a surprise that it comes up more often.

[rushmc 23]

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And I like the fact that Quade lists a court that has the highest rate of being overturned. Way more than any other court in the nation. Anyone care to post the percentage of cased that court has overturned.??

You'll need to modify that query to percentages of cases HEARD that are overturned. The vast majority stand.

It's also the largest circuit in terms of people and land representation, so it's not a surprise that it comes up more often.

I am talking percentage of cased ruled on.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,184]

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I do understand your point - but the fact is that, until and unless the decision is overturned by the Supremes, the DC ban has been found unconstitutional by that appelate court.

But it doesn't set a NATIONAL precedent.

No, it does not.

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In 1981, Morton Grove, IL, became the first town in America to prohibit the possession of handguns. Victor Quilici, a local lawyer, sued the city (Quilici v. Morton Grove). The federal district court as well as the Apellate Court ruled the Morton Grove ordinance to be constitutional, thus upholding the gun ban. The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear the case, letting the lower court decision stand. The ban stands to this day as village code.

In 1982, Kennesaw Georgia passed a law requiring heads of households to keep at least one firearm in their home, exempting those with criminal records or religious objections.

If I recall correctly, I believe that Morton Grove's overall crime went UP after their ban, where Kennesaw's went down and has stayed down...

You might want to compare the most recent violent crime rates (per 100,000) of urban Morton Grove with rural Kennesaw.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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You might want to compare the most recent violent crime rates (per 100,000) of urban Morton Grove with rural Kennesaw.

Changing arguments again?

[mnealtx 0]

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You might want to compare the most recent violent crime rates (per 100,000) of urban Morton Grove with rural Kennesaw.

I'd like to...but Illinois doesn't seem to count rape as a violent crime, so it's a trifle hard to match up numbers... I'd also not count 5 miles outside of Marietta, GA as being "rural".

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Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,184]

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You might want to compare the most recent violent crime rates (per 100,000) of urban Morton Grove with rural Kennesaw.

I'd like to...but Illinois doesn't seem to count rape as a violent crime, so it's a trifle hard to match up numbers... I'd also not count 5 miles outside of Marietta, GA as being "rural".

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Compared with Cook Co. IL. it's bucolic.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,184]

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You might want to compare the most recent violent crime rates (per 100,000) of urban Morton Grove with rural Kennesaw.

Changing arguments again?

I wasn't the first to bring up crime rates in a thread about constitutionality - you should be after mnealtx, not me.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[willard 0]

Why show stats for current crime rates in incidents per population when the claim was for trends that developed after the laws were enacted? Current stats have nothing to do with those trends.

[mnealtx 0]

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Why show stats for current crime rates in incidents per population when the claim was for trends that developed after the laws were enacted? Current stats have nothing to do with those trends.

Well, the most recent data shows an accelerating trend downward in the crime numbers for Illinois and Chicago, so he can use that to say that they're more effective NOW than the concealed carry states.

Like all statistics, it's in HOW you present the data...

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

The Heller snowball keeps rolling and growing bigger.

News:

New Yorkers' Gun Rights May Rest on Hot Dog Vendor's Case

If New York's strict antigun laws are overturned in the near future, it may be the work of a hot dog vendor.

The vendor, Daniel Vargas, is due next month in court to fight misdemeanor charges that he kept an unlicensed revolver loaded on a basement shelf in his apartment.

Now, suddenly, Mr. Vargas's case, as well as a handful of other cases, are testing the authority of district attorneys to prosecute people for gun possession.

In about half a dozen New York City cases reviewed by The New York Sun, defense lawyers have filed briefs arguing that the Supreme Court's decision requires the dismissal of gun possession charges against their clients.

The briefs question the constitutionality of the city's treatment of all unlicensed guns as illegal guns — mere possession of which can be punished by up to 15 years in prison...

Source: The Sun

[JohnRich 4]

Update:

Daley hints he may drop fight to keep handgun ban

Mayor Daley on Friday cracked the door open to abandoning the costly fight to uphold Chicago's 1982 handgun freeze -- if he can fashion a replacement ordinance that protects the safety of first-responders.

Until now, Daley had promised to defend Chicago's ordinance all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, despite what he called the dangerous precedent set by the court.

Now that two suburbs have thrown in the towel, and newspaper editorials have urged Daley to do the same to save millions in legal costs on a fight he can't win, he appears to be having second thoughts.

At a news conference Daley was asked point-blank whether he would continue the legal fight to keep Chicago's handgun ban.

"We don't know yet. ... We're not gonna run away. We're gonna try to figure this out," he said.

Under further questioning, the mayor said city attorneys would simultaneously contest the law and work on a possible replacement.

Chicagoans with guns in their homes might be required to have insurance to protect taxpayers from frivolous lawsuits, he said.

"We're talking about putting first-responders in a very, very delicate position of people being armed without being notified how many guns they have in their homes," Daley said. "We have to be able to fashion a law that truly protects first-responders and protects the citizens."

Source: Sun Times

He's beginning to see the light!

And if Daley thinks that gun registration is a guarantee of accurate gun ownership info for first responders, then he's a fool. There are going to be guns in plenty of homes that don't show up on registration lists. And any police who think that they're going to be safe at that address just because there aren't any guns registered there, is also fools. Furthermore, just because a home may have guns, doesn't mean that the homeowner is likely to shoot any police that respond.

[birdlike 0]

Maybe after he lets the handgun ban drop, that prick shiteating motherfucker will reopen Meigs Field, which that pernicious usurper shut down in the dead of night.

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

[kallend 2,184]

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Maybe after he lets the handgun ban drop, that prick shiteating motherfucker will reopen Meigs Field, which that pernicious usurper shut down in the dead of night.

If you'd seen "Northerly Island" (the former Meigs) recently, you'd realize that the chance of that is between zero and none.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FreeflyChile 0]

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Maybe after he lets the handgun ban drop, that prick shiteating motherfucker will reopen Meigs Field, which that pernicious usurper shut down in the dead of night.

If you'd seen "Northerly Island" (the former Meigs) recently, you'd realize that the chance of that is between zero and none.

Yeah, if you try and land there you might end up in the middle of a concert.