Gawain 0 #1 May 9, 2007 I say specifically in the US, because the tax burden on fuel here is nothing like the rest of the world...you guys are pretty much out of luck. To reduce the price of gas, we (as a country) must use less of it. Don't look at it in terms of money spent, look at it in terms of gallons burned. It would require everyone who drives to make a change this dramatic, but the change required itself may be small in nature. If everyone began using 5 gallons less per month, the impact would be roughly $300M less in demand at a retail level (based on 20M vehicles on the road). If you progressed that usage cut for three months, nearly $1B in retail dollars spent would be gone from the market segment. That reduction in demand would reduce refining capacity costs, reducing costs up the line (with exception to $100/bbl oil). It is possible? Maybe. It would require a truly psychic change in everyone. It is a change like this that would make the difference, not an increase in CAFE, not a "gas-out" day, not even an initially drastic change in driving habits. Just remember, retail gas prices now, still are not as expensive, adjusted for inflation, as they were right around the time President Reagan came to office (if I heard the news report correctly). The prices are fluctuating too much to the point that it still hasn't affected the economy as a whole. 13 gallons of gas for my car costs me between $26 and $34 (I'm in KY, the fuel is "cheap" here)... It's all down to choice, and we're all choosing to drive. There are solutions out there, but most of them do lie with government or industry.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #2 May 9, 2007 QuoteI say specifically in the US, because the tax burden on fuel here is nothing like the rest of the world...you guys are pretty much out of luck.. yup - European prices are around $7 per gallon right now. Not much sympathy for the whining around here in the US. An additional 100% tax on the current US prices seems to be the only thing around here that would get people to finally think seriously about conserving energy ... Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #3 May 9, 2007 Looking at the $2.85 price for regular gas today, I can still remember gas costing 85 cents a gallon when I started driving in the mid 1980's."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namgrunt 0 #4 May 9, 2007 I worked for an oil company for over 10 years in senior manigment. I want the price for regurlar gas to drop 50 to 60 cents per gallon. i.59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallRate 0 #5 May 9, 2007 QuoteAn additional 100% tax on the current US prices seems to be the only thing around here that would get people to finally think seriously about conserving energy ... If you would be so kind as to take the first step...stop jumping. For your part, no more fuel burnt for shits and giggles. Do that, and maybe people will take your drivel seriously. Skydivers who bitch about a lack of fuel conservation...funny shit. FallRate Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #6 May 9, 2007 QuoteQuoteAn additional 100% tax on the current US prices seems to be the only thing around here that would get people to finally think seriously about conserving energy ... If you would be so kind as to take the first step...stop jumping. For your part, no more fuel burnt for shits and giggles. Do that, and maybe people will take your drivel seriously. Skydivers who bitch about a lack of fuel conservation...funny shit. Artificial market manipulation - another sign of government intrusive type's "never think things through, but well intentioned" thinking. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #7 May 9, 2007 Quote Looking at the $2.85 price for regular gas today, I can still remember gas costing 85 cents a gallon when I started driving in the mid 1980's. I can remember paying 85 cents a gallon less than 10 years ago. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #8 May 9, 2007 QuoteQuoteAn additional 100% tax on the current US prices seems to be the only thing around here that would get people to finally think seriously about conserving energy ... If you would be so kind as to take the first step...stop jumping. For your part, no more fuel burnt for shits and giggles. Do that, and maybe people will take your drivel seriously. I already did - so take it seriously. (BTW there are many jumper in Europe who do survive and jump at those fuel prices) ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #9 May 9, 2007 Quote Looking at the $2.85 price for regular gas today, I can still remember gas costing 85 cents a gallon when I started driving in the mid 1980's. _____________________________________ $3.19 per gal. here! I can remember, when I first started driving, gasoline was $0.24 a gal! Back then, with $20.00, I could fill-up, take a girl to a movie and dinner and have change! Is that what is meant by 'the good ol' days'?Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #10 May 9, 2007 1- Change the dirty air filter 2- Tune up the engine (plugs, wires, etc) that hasn't been touched in 60k miles 3- For heaven's sake, put some air in those flat tires you're driving around on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #11 May 10, 2007 Nine responses all day...and from many who do not really spend all their time whining in here. It kind of proves my point, none of us want to dramatically change our lifestyles. What else might be done...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 May 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteAn additional 100% tax on the current US prices seems to be the only thing around here that would get people to finally think seriously about conserving energy ... If you would be so kind as to take the first step...stop jumping. For your part, no more fuel burnt for shits and giggles. Do that, and maybe people will take your drivel seriously. Skydivers who bitch about a lack of fuel conservation...funny shit. Artificial market manipulation - another sign of government intrusive type's "never think things through, but well intentioned" thinking. I changed my mind. Tax it high. Tax everything high - big old sales tax then eliminate the income tax in return sounds good ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livetofall 0 #13 May 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteI say specifically in the US, because the tax burden on fuel here is nothing like the rest of the world...you guys are pretty much out of luck.. yup - European prices are around $7 per gallon right now. Not much sympathy for the whining around here in the US. An additional 100% tax on the current US prices seems to be the only thing around here that would get people to finally think seriously about conserving energy ... Cheers, T Are you really a skydiver? the tax statement makes you sound like one of these smug hollywood goofs who drive around in their custom hybrid, yet use the power of over 10 households in their mansions. You must be rich or ignorant Mr. smugley, because 100% tax would mean $40 jumps for 10k. Furthermore, why dont you bleet like a sheep and pull what you want from the media baaa baaa baaa. The avg american has to drive to work in a day what an avg european drives in a week to work, so once their gas hits $21 a gallon your statement might actually have base. Also they are getting gasoline exports not crude. Have you ever noticed you pay more at a restuarant then when you cook the same amount at home??? Apples and oranges, Einstein. But hey...the american oil companies love people like you, as long as there is ignorance they will keep gouging "hey, its still cheaper then Europe." This isnt a tickle me elmo or a Dodge Viper , supply and demand has no place in oil economics. It doesnt cost more to run a refinery full bore. This is a staple, commodity, necessity and we were not ready as a people for oil companies to be another hot stock on the market. We would have worked on electric and other fuel possibilties if we knew they would turn gas into a profit adventure..which is all it is now.www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nanook 1 #14 May 11, 2007 Quotesupply and demand has no place in oil economics. that's interesting. In a couple of my Economics classes, there were huge discussions on how oil is unique inelasticity on the demand side. Oil is definitely a good example to use when discussing unique demand curves. Quote It doesnt cost more to run a refinery full bore. This sounds suspicious. If you are increasing output, you are definitely spending more for production. Or if the cost of production is the same at max output as min output, then you are wasting a huge amount of money if you don't produce at its max. As far as gouging. . . There's way too few oil producers to have anything more than an ogliopoly. It is buisness suicide to increase price with too few competitors. They are watching each other like a hawk. forget about collusion. Not with this much publicity. QuoteThis is a staple, commodity, necessity and we were not ready as a people for oil companies to be another hot stock on the market Oil has always been a hot stock. Even back in the Sandard Oil days. We have more than a century of oil trade. This isn't a new phenomenon._____________________________ "The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #15 May 11, 2007 I have thought this for years, the best thing to improve air quality (Southern Ontario, Canada) would be a doubling of gas prices. Because I cannot afford more to fill up, I would dump my 2.0 liter car and get a 0.8 liter smart fortwo. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #16 May 11, 2007 QuoteI have thought this for years, the best thing to improve air quality would be a doubling of gas prices. Because I cannot afford more to fill up, I would dump my 2.0 liter car and get a 0.8 liter smart fortwo. rm Air quality is far improved compared to the 1970s.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #17 May 11, 2007 QuoteNine responses all day...and from many who do not really spend all their time whining in here. It kind of proves my point, none of us want to dramatically change our lifestyles. What more can I do? I got rid of my big 4x4, sold my gas sucking boat, I dont drive as much, I have starter buying produce from the local market, my wife mass commutes, I got all those expensive light bulbs, try to use less power, I havent jumped in sometime now, I car pool with another guy to work. What more can I do? I am almost to the point now where I might as well go live in a fucking bubble! I would love to use less gas. But I cannot buy what is not out on the market. I would love to buy a car that got 80 mpg but I cannot spend $80,000 for the damn thing or dont want to have to use a shoe horn to get my ass out of it. I would love to have a $10 electric bill but I need light and have to cook dinner, and have heat. So please tell me what else I can do besides live in a closet and I am all ears. Edit to add a few itemsIf you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 35 #18 May 11, 2007 Quote Quote Looking at the $2.85 price for regular gas today, I can still remember gas costing 85 cents a gallon when I started driving in the mid 1980's. _____________________________________ $3.19 per gal. here! I can remember, when I first started driving, gasoline was $0.24 a gal! Back then, with $20.00, I could fill-up, take a girl to a movie and dinner and have change! Is that what is meant by 'the good ol' days'?Chuck Damn... you're OLD!! I don't remember if anyone ever mentioned it on here, but if you want to make a difference in gas prices, STOP BUYING from Exxon/Mobil period. They're the largest oil company in the world. If they're not selling, they'll have to lower prices and the other companies should follow suit. Tell me whether you think this would work or not. I quit buying Exxon gas after the Exxon Valdez debacle."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #19 May 11, 2007 Quote Tell me whether you think this would work or not. I quit buying Exxon gas after the Exxon Valdez debacle. How many years ago was that? I think your plan has some flaws in it cause it doesnt seem to be working.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #20 May 11, 2007 QuoteNine responses all day...and from many who do not really spend all their time whining in here. It kind of proves my point, none of us want to dramatically change our lifestyles. What else might be done... Or some of us already have and don't feel the need to pound their chest about it. But since you made this post, I'll toss in what I did. I went from driving over 20,000 miles a year the last 5 years down to 250 so far this year as I take public transportation everywhere now. I also went about weatherproofing my apartment to lower the cost of my heating bill this winter along with turning the temp down to 62F. Since I don't own my place, going Solar/wind is not an option for me. It was all common sense. It cut down my gas usage and saved me some money. I saved over $1000 in heating bills this winter and I haven't even figured out my savings from not driving...but I know that transportation for me is a fixed $75/month pretax. I also stopped skydiving due to medical reasons, so there is even more gas I am not using anymore. When I do drive, its a small 4-door compact car with good gas mileage, new tires and recent tuneups. So, due to the greed of the oil companies I became a better consumer while depriving them of several thousand dollars of revenue. Will it stop them from going up to $5/gallon any time soon? I doubt it and it may even help encourage that. So much for not changing lifestyles._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #21 May 11, 2007 QuoteNine responses all day...and from many who do not really spend all their time whining in here. It kind of proves my point, none of us want to dramatically change our lifestyles. What else might be done... I think when it becomes really too much for people to take they will change there habits. Right now it’s expensive and people bitch me included. However if I were really pissed enough to do something I wouldn’t be driving a V8 I would be trading it today and getting a Honda. For me the enjoyment I get out of a fast car far out weighs the cost of gas. If any one bitchs about the gas too much they can always take the first step and lead by example. There is one other issue however. America is huge in comparison to countries in Europe. In Germany when the bus or trains run everywhere and they are always on time. Being late is when they arrive 2 minutes of off schedule. It is much easier to say I’ll take the bus when the bus is readly avillble. In America our public transportation can not provide reliable service for the majority of us.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,565 #22 May 11, 2007 Just think of the money saved. Driving less means less gasoline money. Spending less on heating and A/C means less heating/cooling money needed, which means more for other stuff. It's easy to be reasonably energy-efficient if you're a cheapskate . Wendy W. There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #23 May 11, 2007 QuoteI don't remember if anyone ever mentioned it on here, but if you want to make a difference in gas prices, STOP BUYING from Exxon/Mobil period. They're the largest oil company in the world. If they're not selling, they'll have to lower prices and the other companies should follow suit. This is the followup myth to not buying gas one day. In my region, odds are the gas you're buying was refined by Chevron. Doesn't matter what the name of the station is. The only difference is the cocktail of additives put in. So to repeat, the only way to drive down the price, or keep it from rising as fast, is to consume less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #24 May 11, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Looking at the $2.85 price for regular gas today, I can still remember gas costing 85 cents a gallon when I started driving in the mid 1980's. _____________________________________ $3.19 per gal. here! I can remember, when I first started driving, gasoline was $0.24 a gal! Back then, with $20.00, I could fill-up, take a girl to a movie and dinner and have change! Is that what is meant by 'the good ol' days'?Chuck Damn... you're OLD!! I don't remember if anyone ever mentioned it on here, but if you want to make a difference in gas prices, STOP BUYING from Exxon/Mobil period. They're the largest oil company in the world. If they're not selling, they'll have to lower prices and the other companies should follow suit. Tell me whether you think this would work or not. I quit buying Exxon gas after the Exxon Valdez debacle. ______________________________________ Yes, I AM! Damned proud I've made it this long, too!I have only bought Exxon gas on rare occasions... like when they are the nearest station and I'm runnin' on fumes. I try to buy Chevron. I don't think that, not buying gas on a mass level on any given day will effect the gas producers. They know, we'll buy gas a day or so later. They know too, we will not give-up driving just because the price per gallon goes up. I just heard today on the news, businesses like Wally World and other businesses are losing money because folks are spending their money on gasoline and don't have enough to spare for other things. By God, the gas producers are gonna get their share! I think, between the gas and oil producers and the bought-off politicians... we're gettin' a big fat screwin'! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #25 May 12, 2007 Quote If everyone began using 5 gallons less per month, the impact would be roughly $300M less in demand at a retail level (based on 20M vehicles on the road). If you progressed that usage cut for three months, nearly $1B in retail dollars spent would be gone from the market segment. Start driving japanese cars! you could save 5 gallons a month and still drive fast! A Toyota DOHC TURBO small car would kick most American cars asses and still only burn 1/4 of the fuel. That is the reality of it. The USA has had it too good for too long with oil consumption. It is time to tighten your belts and think sensibly for a change. Stopping people driving behemoth 6litre, 8 cylinder 4x4's to drop the kids off at school would be start. ......"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
