Historical perspectives

[jenfly00 0]

Last night, I watched 'James Cameron's Expedition'. It was a documentary and undersea exploration of the Bismark. Along with the film crew were several survivors of the Bismark.

Here's what really struck me. One of the survivors stated that, at the time, they "were absolutely convinced it was the right thing to do" Hitler had captured their hearts and minds and they felt strong and proud. They felt they had a great leader with a clear vision of what needed to be done. They were patriots.

Looking back, over 60 years later, they realize the insanity of it all and how they were led beyond morality and reason.

I log onto this forum and re-read some comments by our resident jingoists concerning Bush and his vision, and I wonder ...what will their historical perspective be?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[SpeedRacer 1]

Probably no different from people who believe everything would have changed in Vietnam if we had just stayed a little longer, shot a few more bullets, & dropped a few more bombs than we did.

Speed Racer
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[jakee 1,596]

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Here's what really struck me. One of the survivors stated that, at the time, they "were absolutely convinced it was the right thing to do" Hitler had captured their hearts and minds and they felt strong and proud. They felt they had a great leader with a clear vision of what needed to be done. They were patriots.

The thing that really makes me wonder is - how many of them didn't really buy into the Nazi ideal, but just went along with what was happening anyway because that was what they were being told to do.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[willard 0]

Probably no different than those who blindly accepted Clinton's policies and ideas while excusing his abuses because he told them whatever they wanted to hear. If you're going to compare our Prsidents to Hitler, Clinton has more in common with Adolph than Bush does. Both Clinton and Hitler used their personality and public speaking abilities to persuade vast numbers of people to follow them. Bush couldn't talk a horse into eating a carrot.

[akarunway 1]

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Probably no different than those who blindly accepted Clinton's policies and ideas while excusing his abuses because he told them whatever they wanted to hear. If you're going to compare our Prsidents to Hitler, Clinton has more in common with Adolph than Bush does. Both Clinton and Hitler used their personality and public speaking abilities to persuade vast numbers of people to follow them. Bush couldn't talk a horse into eating a carrot.

http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/recipeslist.html

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Bush couldn't talk a horse into eating a carrot.

true, but some of his family wealth is thanks to Hitler anyways....

[willard 0]

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Bush couldn't talk a horse into eating a carrot.

true, but some of his family wealth is thanks to Hitler anyways....

Care to elaborate?

[rehmwa 2]

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Bush couldn't talk a horse into eating a carrot.

true, but some of his family wealth is thanks to Hitler anyways....

Care to elaborate?

Hitler destroyed Germany. After assistance from several countries, (including the US), their entire infrastructure was rebuilt, thus modernizing it ahead of normal effects, Germany was then able to produce several car models for commercial sale, certain companies demonstrate relatively superior design and quality and survived, thus those brands became international sellers, Bush and his ancestors use cars to travel to and from places, thus freeing up time that would be wasted walking, as such, they could become more productive.

Simple right.

Of course, OJ Simpson also drives a car. Seems to me that implicates GWB in Nicole Simpson's death.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,150]

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Bush couldn't talk a horse into eating a carrot.

true, but some of his family wealth is thanks to Hitler anyways....

Care to elaborate?

Hitler destroyed Germany. After assistance from several countries, (including the US), their entire infrastructure was rebuilt, thus modernizing it ahead of normal effects, Germany was then able to produce several car models for commercial sale, certain companies demonstrate relatively superior design and quality and survived, thus those brands became international sellers, Bush and his ancestors use cars to travel to and from places, thus freeing up time that would be wasted walking, as such, they could become more productive.

Simple right.

Of course, OJ Simpson also drives a car. Seems to me that implicates GWB in Nicole Simpson's death.

All that, and this too about Grandpa Bush trading with the Nazis:

www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DZJ 0]

The problem with lessons from history (and I say this as a historian) is that they tend to be clear only long after they are needed.

Studying the past to predict the future is a complete red herring in my opinion, and I usually cringe when politicians make cheap historical analogies (Saddam = Hitler comes to mind here).

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Care to elaborate?

Just do some research into your current President's grandfather Prescott and his business dealings leading up to and during WWII.

[willard 0]

The Kennedy family fortune was amassed by stock market dealings and manipulation that, at the time, were legal but considered unethical (filing false reports to influence stock prices for one). Those tactics gave rise to laws governing insider information, etc.
Can't hold that against JFK anymore than GWs grandfather's dealings can be held against GW.

[kallend 2,150]

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The Kennedy family fortune was amassed by stock market dealings and manipulation that, at the time, were legal but considered unethical (filing false reports to influence stock prices for one). Those tactics gave rise to laws governing insider information, etc.
Can't hold that against JFK anymore than GWs grandfather's dealings can be held against GW.

Well, you did write: "Care to elaborate?". So it's been elaborated for you.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Enrique 0]

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Probably no different than those who blindly accepted Clinton's policies and ideas while excusing his abuses because he told them whatever they wanted to hear. If you're going to compare our Prsidents to Hitler, Clinton has more in common with Adolph than Bush does. Both Clinton and Hitler used their personality and public speaking abilities to persuade vast numbers of people to follow them. Bush couldn't talk a horse into eating a carrot.

http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/recipeslist.html

Too freakin' funny

[Royd 0]

Looking back, over 60 years later, they realize the insanity of it all and how they were led beyond morality and reason.

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I log onto this forum and re-read some comments by our resident jingoists concerning Bush and his vision, and I wonder ...what will their historical perspective be?

Chamberlain/ Churchill

Chamberlain/ Churchill

I just can't decide who was right.

[billvon 3,120]

> I just can't decide who was right.

Vietnam/Iraq

Vietnam/Iraq

I guess we don't know yet which will be the bigger debacle, and the bigger stain on the history of the US. Vietnam used to be the winner, but Iraq is slowly overtaking it.

[joedirt 0]

Wow, are you comparing germany under Hitler to the U.S. under GWB?

[willard 0]

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The Kennedy family fortune was amassed by stock market dealings and manipulation that, at the time, were legal but considered unethical (filing false reports to influence stock prices for one). Those tactics gave rise to laws governing insider information, etc.
Can't hold that against JFK anymore than GWs grandfather's dealings can be held against GW.

Well, you did write: "Care to elaborate?". So it's been elaborated for you.

Yes, I know that. I asked because I didn't know what the poster was referencing and I didn't want to assume. They gave a reasonable explanation of the connection and I replied with my perception of how the actions of P.Bush relate to GW Bush.
Do you have a problem with that?

[Andy9o8 2]

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The Kennedy family fortune was amassed by stock market dealings and manipulation that, at the time, were legal but considered unethical (filing false reports to influence stock prices for one). Those tactics gave rise to laws governing insider information, etc.
Can't hold that against JFK anymore than GWs grandfather's dealings can be held against GW.

In other words: "But JFK got a blowjob."
Gotcha.

[willard 0]

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The Kennedy family fortune was amassed by stock market dealings and manipulation that, at the time, were legal but considered unethical (filing false reports to influence stock prices for one). Those tactics gave rise to laws governing insider information, etc.
Can't hold that against JFK anymore than GWs grandfather's dealings can be held against GW.

In other words: "But JFK got a blowjob."
Gotcha.

Normally I would be one of the first to use the "CGABJF" line, but here it isn't relevent. Both the Kennedy family and the Bush family have skeletons in the closet. To hold the younger generations of these families responsible for those skeletons is ridiculous. Bothe JFK and GWB did enough dumb things in their own right.

[kallend 2,150]

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The Kennedy family fortune was amassed by stock market dealings and manipulation that, at the time, were legal but considered unethical (filing false reports to influence stock prices for one). Those tactics gave rise to laws governing insider information, etc.
Can't hold that against JFK anymore than GWs grandfather's dealings can be held against GW.

In other words: "But JFK got a blowjob."
Gotcha.

Normally I would be one of the first to use the "CGABJF" line, but here it isn't relevent. Both the Kennedy family and the Bush family have skeletons in the closet. To hold the younger generations of these families responsible for those skeletons is ridiculous. Bothe JFK and GWB did enough dumb things in their own right.

The fortunes that enable the younger generations to amass political power came from the ill gotten gains of their elders.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[willard 0]

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The Kennedy family fortune was amassed by stock market dealings and manipulation that, at the time, were legal but considered unethical (filing false reports to influence stock prices for one). Those tactics gave rise to laws governing insider information, etc.
Can't hold that against JFK anymore than GWs grandfather's dealings can be held against GW.

In other words: "But JFK got a blowjob."
Gotcha.

Normally I would be one of the first to use the "CGABJF" line, but here it isn't relevent. Both the Kennedy family and the Bush family have skeletons in the closet. To hold the younger generations of these families responsible for those skeletons is ridiculous. Bothe JFK and GWB did enough dumb things in their own right.

The fortunes that enable the younger generations to amass political power came from the ill gotten gains of their elders.

Sure did. But where does the younger generation bear responsibility for the elder gens actions?

[Amazon 7]

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In other words: "But JFK got a blowjob."

Hey at least he had some taste..... Give the guy credit... Marilyn Monroe.. as opposed to Bill and the little pudgy intern...

[DFWAJG 4]

The thing that really makes me wonder is - how many of them didn't really buy into the Nazi ideal, but just went along with what was happening anyway because that was what they were being told to do.

[popsjumper 2]

You beat me to the punch.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239