Half Mast?

[Zenister 0]

a letter from a soldier in Iraq read on CNN today brought up a point that has been bothering me for a while...

Why don't we fly our flag at half mast for all those lost servicemen and women? Is their sacrifice any less significant than the VT murders?

or would it just remind the general public that we have soldiers dying in combat every day and the administration would rather them not be reminded of that fact every time it happens???

Does the fact that Americans are more aware of the weekend sports scores, than the number of soldiers who have died in Iraq recently bother anyone else?

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[quade 4]

Minor quibbling point;

Half Mast on ships and Naval bases.

Everywhere else, Half STAFF.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Zenister 0]

true, good catch..

was discussing it over lunch with Navy Officers so "mast" was the term we were using...

it was generally agreed that the "US" clearly isnt at war... only the "US Military" is...

that is rather sad state of affairs.. when the 'support' offered by the majority of Americans amounts to little more than flag waving and magnetic stickers, and even the most basic honors are negelected...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[quade 4]

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when the 'support' offered by the majority of Americans amounts to little more than flag waving and magnetic stickers, and even the most basic honors are negelected...

Ok, ya just know who I'm gonna blame for this so I might as well get it out up front; GWB.

He really wants to play it both ways; "Terrible crisis!" and "Go about your business as if nothing is wrong. If we stop shopping, then the terrorists win."

I think at least a small token of sacrifice today in the form of raising taxes just slightly to help pay for the war would have somehow at least made an impact on the average citizen, but he wouldn't even repeal some of the outlandish tax breaks he's given to rich folks.

He wants your grand kids to pay for it.

Personally, I support the fine people in our military, but I do not support this bogus "war on terror". Go find Osama! He's not in Iraq.

GWB supports the "war on terror" but not the people in uniform.

If he DID support them, he'd find a way to give them better equipment to do the job and get them back home as quickly as feasible. People returning injured would have the BEST care available and not some moldy, rat infested, over crowded, hell hole.

As for not flying the flag constantly at half staff as a sign of respect to the men and women that have fallen; that's simply something that can't actually be done because it would be every day of the war.

Again, I fault GWB though for the lack of disclosure on body counts. He gave strict orders NOT to allow coverage of bodies returning. That, to me, is disgraceful.

Something else I haven't seen, maybe it does happen, but I haven't seen it; the white stars in the windows of families. I know I haven't seen any gold stars and I live in SoCal which is one of the areas with a VERY high number of family members of service members in the war. I can sort of understand not seeing gold stars since that's "only" about 3,500ish, but I sure as hell should have seen some white ones. I don't know exactly which government office is responsible for giving them out, but either they don't get there or the families aren't putting them up.

I remember seeing plenty of them during Vietnam even when that war was at its most unpopular. I remember attending Gold Star Mother services a number of times as a kid.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Zenister 0]

I still like the idea i heard somewhere (radio, editorial, cant recall really)

add an 'Iraq War Tax' directly to everyone's W2 so they can see EXACTLY how much the War is personally costing them dollar wise...

see how the next elections turns out

all in all I completely agree... "supporting the troops" doesnt mean giving them an impossible mission (militarily, Iraq is and has always been more of a political problem) then asking them to continue to do 'more with less' at an increasingly heavy op tempo...

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[DSE 5]

Been a tough one to figure here in Utah. First, an 18 year old kid goes on a rampage killing people in a mall.
Flags at half staff.

Then a former Congressman dies.
Flags at half staff.

Then the wife of a prominent Mormon church official dies.
Flags at half.

Cho kills students at college.
Flags at half-staff.

We need taller flagpoles or a revisit of the half-staff rules of order, cuz it's been the norm here for nearly 2 months now.
Howzabout we just leave em' permanently there in honor of those who have died in Iraq, and put them back to full-staff when we have a president that doesn't need the distractions from policy?

[steelyeye 0]

Quade - Here is at least some information about the flags. http://www.af.mil/news/airman/0703/oif6.html, and yes, I have seen quite a few of them in and around military bases in Hawaii, Georgia and Florida.

"Better a has-been than a never-was. Better a never-was than a never-tried-to-be..."

[kallend 2,150]

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Minor quibbling point;

Half Mast on ships and Naval bases.

Everywhere else, Half STAFF.

Everywhere else IN THE USA, maybe. Not everywhere else in the English speaking world.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nathaniel 0]

Well there was that whole Enlightenment thing, the invention of the university system and the end of the Dark Ages. I'd chalk it up to Western Culture instead of any nationalist perversion. Universities are why we are chatting via computer instead of face to face, riding around in cars instead of on mules, living in a thriving global economy instead of dying in epidemics and all that.

Striking out at the university system is to attack the roots of our culture. At least some people think so.

Soldiers, on the other hand, are paid to fight and risk death among other things. While their contributions should neither be underestimated, it's not out of the ordinary when they get hurt or killed. It's like the difference between dropping a brick on your hand vs on your head.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[quade 4]

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Minor quibbling point;

Half Mast on ships and Naval bases.

Everywhere else, Half STAFF.

Everywhere else IN THE USA, maybe. Not everywhere else in the English speaking world.

We, of course, are speaking of the U.S.A.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[nanook 1]

We didn't fly flags at half mast during the first Gulf war either. I'll ask my dad about Vietnam. And to play the bad guy here, there's a difference of dying tragically, unexpectedly, and horribly, as a civillian when it's not your job to in the first place and dying in service for your country because you agreed to. Half mast is when the Country is in Mourning. To me it seems that the only people really in mourning are the family of Soldiers, Marines, Airmen and Sailors. . .everybody else is mostly just pissed off or support the war. Too divided for a call of a Half Mast.

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"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[skyguy78 0]

Something else I haven't seen, maybe it does happen, but I haven't seen it; the white stars in the windows of families. I know I haven't seen any gold stars and I live in SoCal which is one of the areas with a VERY high number of family members of service members in the war. I can sort of understand not seeing gold stars since that's "only" about 3,500ish, but I sure as hell should have seen some white ones. I don't know exactly which government office is responsible for giving them out, but either they don't get there or the families aren't putting them up.

I remember seeing plenty of them during Vietnam even when that war was at its most unpopular. I remember attending Gold Star Mother services a number of times as a kid.

[Zenister 0]

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but I haven't seen it; the white stars in the windows of families. I know I haven't seen any gold stars and I live in SoCal which is one of the areas with a VERY high number of family members of service members in the war. I can sort of understand not seeing gold stars since that's "only" about 3,500ish, but I sure as hell should have seen some white ones. I don't know exactly which government office is responsible for giving them out, but either they don't get there or the families aren't putting them up.

I see lots of white stars (as i work primarily at/around military installations) but i have yet to see a gold... could be coincidence, could be family choice, or maybe they aren't 'giving them out' no idea.. ive been to two military funerals since OIF started and it wasnt mentioned at either... but then 'bragging rights' was never high on either families lists of priorities so...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[kallend 2,150]

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but I haven't seen it; the white stars in the windows of families. I know I haven't seen any gold stars and I live in SoCal which is one of the areas with a VERY high number of family members of service members in the war. I can sort of understand not seeing gold stars since that's "only" about 3,500ish, but I sure as hell should have seen some white ones. I don't know exactly which government office is responsible for giving them out, but either they don't get there or the families aren't putting them up.

I see lots of white stars (as i work primarily at/around military installations) but i have yet to see a gold... could be coincidence, could be family choice, or maybe they aren't 'giving them out' no idea.. ive been to two military funerals since OIF started and it wasnt mentioned at either... but then 'bragging rights' was never high on either families lists of priorities so...

We weren't offered one when my son was over there.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.