The new tragic hero of Modernism is the anti-hero.

[Skyrad 0]

The press were quick to point out that Cho Seung-hui was Korean and not an American, it became almost like a mantra in the media. I was not surprised by what happened (19 school shootings in ten years why should I be) Clearly Cho Seung-hui was a very sick individual who committed a terrible crime. But I belive he was very much an American regardless of what his passport said. Clearly he sought to be a hero and that’s how he saw himself. The hard and unpalatable reality is that that’s how some will see him.
You might think that only a sick individual would view him as such, I would argue that only in a sick society would it even be thinkable.

Patrick Bateman… American Psycho
Conan ‘The Barbarian’
Raoul Duke… Fear and loathing
Tyler Durden… Fight Club
Hannibal Lecter…
Lestat de Lioncourt… Vampire Cronicles
Tom Ripley…
Travis Bickle… Taxi Driver
Harry Callahan… Dirty Harry
Michael Corleone… Godfather
Jigsaw… Saw
Beatrix Kiddo… Kill Bill
Mickey and Mallory Knox… Natural born killers
Leon ‘The profesional’
The man with no name…the good the bad and the ugly
John Rambo.. First blood
Tony Montana… Scarface
Vic Mackey…. The Shield
Tony Soprano… The Sopranos
Tommy Vercetti.. Grand theft auto
Mr White, Mr Orange, Mr Pink, Mr Black, Mr Blond (et al) Resvior dogs
Vincent Vega…Pulp fiction
Ordell Robbie.. Jackie Brown
Louis Gara….Jackie Brown
Henry Hill.. Goodfellas
Tommy De Vito… Goodfellas
John Hartigan… Sin City

With the cult of celebrity Is it any wonder that a sick individual decided that the best way to eternal fame was to commit mass murder?
What was the difference between Cho Seung-hui and John Rambo?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[justinb138 0]

Ah, blame it on the movies and the video games...here we go...

Since when was just being a fucking psycho not enough to explain the mass murder thing?

[jakee 1,646]

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Raoul Duke… Fear and loathing

Uhhh, explanation?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Darius11 12]

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What was the difference between Cho Seung-hui and John Rambo?

One is an actor (kind of ) and the other is someone who was a psychopath.
We all love actions movies they tend to do very well at the box office yet you don’t see 50 million people going out and shooting someone.
I play gears of war very violent game almost every night I have not yet chain sawed anyone because of it.

There are crazy people every where.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Zenister 0]

the inability to distinguish reality from fantasy is one of the more obvious signs of mental illness..

also you are quite a bit late on the rise of the 'anti-hero'. It has been that way for a while... read Milton, Blake, Shakespeare etc...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[NCclimber 0]

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What was the difference between Cho Seung-hui and John Rambo?

I must have missed the reporting on Cho being brutalized by law enforcement and that he acted out of self-preservation.

As far as trolling OPs go, your's is pretty good.

[jakee 1,646]

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One is an actor

Sylvester Stallone = Actor.

John Rambo = Character.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

I wonder how many in your list are modern remakes of Japanese or European flicks????

Jet Li actually starred in a movie named "HERO" - That was quite a good piece of Americana

I like the old movie "They call me Nobody" - nothing to do with the thread, I just like that movie.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[NCclimber 0]

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I like the old movie "They call me Nobody" - nothing to do with the thread, I just like that movie.

I watched all those Trinity movies. Thought were funny as hell.

Never can find any of them at the video store.

[rehmwa 2]

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watched all those Trinity movies. Thought were funny as hell.

you made me do a search - I didn't know there was more, I just see the one occasionally on tv

now I have to find 3 more movies in addition to My Name is Nobody

Boot Hill
They Call Me Trinity
Trinity is Still My Name


If you want to film a spaghetti western, one should really revel in the genre, not dabble. That goes for a lot in life

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[freethefly 6]

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Raoul Duke… Fear and loathing

I can understand the rest but, what does Hunter S. Thompson have to do with this. He was a highly respected journalist as well as a counter-culture hero. I really miss his "Hey Rube" column on ESPN.com.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Skyrad 0]

Just thought I'd throw that one in to see if anyone would read the list

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

What was the difference between Cho Seung-hui and John Rambo?

One is an actor (kind of ) and the other is someone who was a psychopath.
We all love actions movies they tend to do very well at the box office yet you don’t see 50 million people going out and shooting someone.
I play gears of war very violent game almost every night I have not yet chain sawed anyone because of it.

There are crazy people every where.

My point is not that he did it because he saw it on tv. The point is that society glorifys the perverted. Makes heros out of sociopathic characters, then reacts in horror and repulsion when a real one raises his head and carries out what we pay money to watch at the movies, thats fucked up. It appears that he may have emulated a Korean violent film anti hero judgeing from some of his poses. But did he? It is just as likely that the film emulated him or people like him.

I found this on description of a tragic hero...

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•Hero must suffer more than he deserves.
•Hero must be doomed from the start, but bear no responsibility for possessing his flaw.
•Hero must be noble in nature, but imperfect so that the audience can see themselves in him.
•Hero must have discovered his fate by his own actions, not by things happening to him.
•Hero must see and understand his doom, as well as the fact that his fate was discovered by his own actions.
•Hero's story should arouse fear and empathy.
•Hero must be physically or spiritually wounded by his experiences, often resulting in his death.
•Ideally, the hero should be a king or leader of men, so that his people experience his fall with him.
•The hero must be intelligent so he may learn from his mistakes.

In Cho's mind its easy to see how he saw himself in the above light.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Lindsey 0]

then reacts in horror and repulsion when a real one raises his head and carries out what we pay money to watch at the movies, thats fucked up.

We react with horror at the movies too. We view the movies, though, with a little less interest than the real deal. That's because *most* of us developed a relatively appropriate sense of right and wrong as children. What's fucked up is that some people don't. I don't think it has anything to do with movies though.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[kelpdiver 2]

I think your list only proves that Hollywood makes better movies, or you only watch English language movies and like action movies.

What about the enforcer (with the kid) in Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels?

Any Jackie Chan, Jet Li, or Chow-Yun Fat character - the last one esp fits your bill of suffering and then killing the fuck out of the bad guys.

BTW, Arnold seemed pretty Austrian still as Conan.
Leon was a French movie.
Goodfellas sucks - shouldn't get two mentions.

[jakee 1,646]

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The hero must be intelligent so he may learn from his mistakes.

That's interesting, I would tend to disagree.

I would say that the tragic hero does not learn from his mistakes. A tragic hero may recognise his mistakes, and often even foresee the actions which will lead to his downfall. However, the tragic hero's aforementioned character flaw will make him unwilling (or unable) to change his behaviour or his course, condeming him to his end.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,646]

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Goodfellas sucks - shouldn't get two mentions.

It may not have the epic grandeur of the Godfather or Casino, but it's an excellent piece of filmaking.

What did you think of The Departed (if you've seen it)?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kelpdiver 2]

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It may not have the epic grandeur of the Godfather or Casino, but it's an excellent piece of filmaking.

It has no business in a talk of Rambo like movies. Reality is much duller.

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What did you think of The Departed (if you've seen it)?

It was fine - not best picture, but certainly a decent knockoff of Infernal Affairs. Looks very nice on blu-ray too. Probably shouldn't have been quite as long.

[Skyrad 0]

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I think your list only proves that Hollywood makes better movies, or you only watch English language movies and like action movies.

What about the enforcer (with the kid) in Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels?

Any Jackie Chan, Jet Li, or Chow-Yun Fat character - the last one esp fits your bill of suffering and then killing the fuck out of the bad guys.

BTW, Arnold seemed pretty Austrian still as Conan.
Leon was a French movie.
Goodfellas sucks - shouldn't get two mentions.

You might have noticed that I didn't make direct reference just to American society. The same films rake in millions in the UK, France and elsewhere also. The problem isn't just an American one.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Goodfellas sucks - shouldn't get two mentions.

It may not have the epic grandeur of the Godfather or Casino, but it's an excellent piece of filmaking.

What did you think of The Departed (if you've seen it)?

The departed was a poor rip off of a stylish Japaneese film.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jakee 1,646]

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The departed was a poor rip off of a stylish Japaneese film.

I thought Infernal Affairs was from Hong Kong?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Skyrad 0]

Yea you could be right, its silly o clock and I have been working for nineteen hours straight so not on best form at the mo.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Royd 0]

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What was the difference between Cho Seung-hui and John Rambo?

Rambo just wanted to be left alone. He wouldn't have hurt anyone.

[freethefly 6]

Emulation is not new. People have been copy catting their "heroes" for thousands of years. I can imagined that a number of kids of the old west days wished to be like William Bonney aka Billy the Kid after reading the fabricated accounts of his bank robberies (Billy the Kid never robbed any banks. His only thefts were some butter and some ones laundry and later he rustled some cattle to settle a debt owed to him) and shoot outs with the law (Though credited with killing 21 men, he actually only killed 4 men in self defense but, as a member of the Regulators during the Lincoln County war he was present during shoot outs with corrupt lawmen in which no one knows who bullet killed who). These stories were mostly of the imagination of dimestore novelist who knew that exaggeration sells. He was made to be meaner than he really was and a faster than lightning gunfighter ready to kill all who got in his way. All false. None the less young boys idolized him in those days much like some kids idolize the figures in certain movies. The invincible counter hero sells movie tickets. Movie makers know this just as the dimestore novelist knew it to be true to sell books. So, it is fair to say that the media should share in the blame for how some kids may react after seeing a movie or after reading a book. However, they (the media) cannot be held accountable for some ones delusion that they (the kid) are just like the counter hero whom they worship. Those who do as Cho did seem to be destined to do as such for whatever reason. Identifying with a counter hero only serves to reinforce their dellusion and spurs them on to do the unthinkable.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[SpeedRacer 1]

the mistake is to say there's anything NEW about this.

in 1850 Charles Mackay wrote a chapter (in his famous book Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds) about how people often idolize violent criminals.

And in the 1920s Gene Autrey had a song that went:

I'm Atlanta bound, Atlanta bound
I'll hunt the rounder that stole that gal of mine
I'm Atlanta bound, Atlanta bound
I'll bring him back in a box of pine

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this stuff is not new.

Speed Racer
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