Now Im Pissed.

[Duckwater 0]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266460,00.html

I wonder if the desperate need to place blame is a natural part of the grief process. If it is not, these parents are despicable and ignorant.

This asshole should not have been given a podium. You cannot plan or prepare for every situation. A 'lockdown' might have added to the deaths,,,Only a tactical team might have an idea.

He needs to be slapped for this comment:

“I hold this president completely accountable,” said Shourds. “They are cowards. They can’t come out and say they made a mistake.”

Im giving the Pres the benefit of the doubt that he is a good man and he is devastated by this rampage. And now he is being called a coward and somehow blamed and his job threatened? Imagine how he feels right now.

If he did not follow some established procedure, that will come out in the investigation. He should not be a scapegoat regardless. The asshole responsible is dead. Period.

Sometimes there is no-one to blame. This is one of them.

John and Jennifer Shourds are despicable. Their daughter was not even hurt. They should shut the fuck up.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

32 dead kids. Did you not expect the families to cover the entire emotional spectrum? Even if their kid was there and survived, did you think they wouldn't raise some questions? These questions were being tossed around yesterday by the media, it was only time before someone upset and emotional voiced them.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Duckwater 0]

It would be one thing if he knew what he was talking about. I would also give him some leeway if a child of his was injured or killed.

I would even be OK with asking questions, not flinging accisations, although the timing is inappropriate and it would be pointless as an official investigation is coming.

To call the president a coward, especially right now, is BS. He better be glad he has an unlisted # because he would have got an earfull from me.

[quade 4]

Quote

I wonder if the desperate need to place blame is a natural part of the grief process.

Yes. Actually, I think it is.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

It would be one thing if he knew what he was talking about. I would also give him some leeway if a child of his was injured or killed.

I would even be OK with asking questions, not flinging accisations, although the timing is inappropriate and it would be pointless as an official investigation is coming.

To call the president a coward, especially right now, is BS. He better be glad he has an unlisted # because he would have got an earfull from me.

I don't think there is a handguide for tragedies that spells out how much time we should wait before moving to a next step. We know there is a point where it is just uncalled for - and even experienced it here in SC yesterday - but from there you just make it up as you go along.

I'm not going to pretend to understand what anyone at VT is feeling, nor am I going to fault them for those emotions. I can barely understand the impact and extent of 32 dead innocent people. I also don't fully understand if there was anything in the chain of events yesterday that could have saved a few more. But imagine being a VT student's parent yesterday and the range of emotions they went through, esp not knowing if their child was alive or not......then finding them alive and knowing they nearly lost them.

I'm actually shocked it took this long for someone to channel their helplessness and anger onto someone else.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

Yes. Actually, I think it is.

Not in skydiving.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Quote

Yes. Actually, I think it is.

Not in skydiving.

I've seen it in skydiving, I've seen it from someone losing someone to cancer.....its just part of the process for some people. Death has a way of making you feel helpless....adding anger to it only makes it worse. Somehow a release is found, and to each their own at that point.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[wmw999 2,558]

It's one of the 5 stages of grief. in skydiving, too. After all, the deceased made a mistake. We can all assure ourselves that we would never make the same mistake. of course not.

BTW, it doesn't work, either. Death is what it is. You can't bargain it away, blame it away, or be angry at it and make it go away. It happens. And we all make mistakes. Sometimes a given mistake ends in death, sometimes it ends in dumbassness, sometimes it ends in heroism.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

I'm not going to pretend to understand what anyone at VT is feeling, nor am I going to fault them for those emotions. I can barely understand the impact and extent of 32 dead innocent people. I also don't fully understand if there was anything in the chain of events yesterday that could have saved a few more. But imagine being a VT student's parent yesterday and the range of emotions they went thru, esp not knowing if their child was alive or not......then finding them alive and knowing they nearly lost them.

Im going to wager that the emotion he should be feeling, which is what Im sure all the other thousands of parents that had their children come home are feeling, is profound relief. Relief so great it cancels other emotions. It seems he is one of thousands that would fling baseless blame at the biggest target. All the other parents are busy loving their kids.

Why was he given an outlet?

Fox News is a piece of shit for publishing it.

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

Yes. Actually, I think it is.

Not in skydiving.

You're joking; right?

What's one of, if the THE, first things people ask when somebody goes in? My guess is that most of the time it's "what happened?" and the reason is that they're immediently looking for the reason it happened. Was it a bad hook turn? Who's to blame? Was it a faulty rig? Who packed it? Did they get knocked unconscious? Who hit her?

Absolutely true in skydiving.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Duckwater 0]

I can tell you, from outside appearances, skydivers appear calloused towards death. In an airshow, if a pilot dies, they cancel it,,,,at least for that day.

Skydivers dont miss a load.

Im not saying that is wrong, but it gives the impression that we are calloused. I am sometimes, and sometimes im devastated.

There have been some accidents that were the fault of one individual. Everybody is very leery to assign blame, even when it is pretty clear. Have anyone ever seen a skydiver blame a DZO and call him a coward because someone else screwed up?

That guy wouldnt be around long.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Im going to wager that the emotion he should be feeling, which is what Im sure all the other thousands of parents that had their children come home are feeling, is profound relief. Relief so great it cancels other emotions. It seems he is one of thousands that would fling baseless blame at the biggest target. All the other parents are busy loving their kids.

Why was he given an outlet?

Fox News is a piece of shit for publishing it.

First off, Fox did the right thing here. They reported news. The medium played it's roll here. News is two things: reporting and showing the impact it has on people.

Also, you are claiming to know how this parent should react and how his emotional state should sway in an event like this. In my opinion, that form of judgement can't take place until you can match the experience and emotions. Even then, everyone reacts differently and there will always be someone that responds differently than you.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[kelpdiver 2]

anyone know what the VT campus is like?

The Berkeley dorms are clustered in the city streets just south of the campus itself. Crime happens there - they wouldn't lock down the campus because of something happening on Durant.

so while it sounds like the university was sitting on their asses, I'm not sure what they were supposed to do to have avoided part 2.

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

What's one of, if the THE, first things people ask when somebody goes in? My guess is that most of the time it's "what happened?" and the reason is that they're immediently looking for the reason it happened. Was it a bad hook turn? Who's to blame? Was it a faulty rig? Who packed it? Did they get knocked unconscious? Who hit her?

Paul,
Of course we do that. But that is logically trying to determine what happened. We will blame inanimate objects or the deceased. I rarely here blame assigned to someone. If it is it is whispered at the bar.

I actually think this is good overall. I love the fact that we don't have to find SOMEONE to blame for every accident like the rest of society.

We realize that stuff happens and we accept the risk.
The downside is that sometimes we dont act when someone swoops into 100 big canopies and we all have our head in the sand on the issue of canopy flight.

[Duckwater 0]

Quote

First off, Fox did the right thing here. They reported news. The medium played it's roll here. News is two things: reporting and showing the impact it has on people.

One persons rant is not news. They found the one asshole out of 10,000 that would blame the President and call him a coward. That is not news, it is slander.

Wouldnt the opinion of one of the parents of a slain student be more relevant and newsworthy? They are too busy grieving. Where is the outrage from them?

[DZJ 0]

Quote

John and Jennifer Shourds are despicable. Their daughter was not even hurt. They should shut the fuck up.

I find it incredible that you seem to think that the value of their opinion is altered by whether or not their daughter was killed or wounded.

I wasn't killed or wounded by the 7/7 London bombings, but I like to think I'm entitled to an opinion on them.

[Duckwater 0]

I think his opinion is complete bullshit, offensive and sladerous. I said that I would be willing to understand if he had a child die, because I dont know what that would to to someone. The opinion/accusation would still be BS, but I could underdstand.

Have an opinion, based on ZERO knowledge of policy, tactics or anything else, fine. But when you tell the nation that The guy who had students killed on his watch, who is undoutebly more devastated than this a-home - call him a coward and demand that he be fired based on an 'opinion' that is not based on fact.....

I lump him in with those assholes that protest military funerals. Kick people when they are down.....yeah...

Dont forget, the U Pres is an educator not a SWAT guy.
We have insurgents walking into guarded Army mess halls in a war zone and killing a bunch of soldiers. And everyone had machine guns. Can we reasonably expect to ever prevent this in an unguarded hall?

[billvon 3,087]

>Not in skydiving.

There absolutely is often a desperate need to place blame. The most common manifestation is "well, he died because he was an idiot - it won't happen to _me_ because I'm not an idiot." Blame the victim, in other words. Easy when it's an anonymous skydiver.

When the person knows the deceased, and knows they were competent (as most skydivers are) then it's tougher. I've seen skydivers blame the drop zone, the pilot, other skydivers, the gear - I saw one friend of mine sue another friend of mine out of business over what she perceived as a gear failure. "It wasn't Joe's fault - he was as safe as they come! It was that lousy rig/that stupid pattern/the DZO's rules that did him in."

As much as we like to think we're above all that, we're not. We're a lot like everyone else.

[billvon 3,087]

>Sometimes there is no-one to blame.

Well, we can always blame the victims for not being braver, or for letting mere .22 rounds stop them. From the National Review:

--------------
Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn't anyone rush the guy? It's not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness' sake—one of them reportedly a .22.

At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him. Handguns aren't very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can't hit squat. I doubt this guy was any better than I am. And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage—your chances aren't bad.

Yes, yes, I know it's easy to say these things: but didn't the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything? As the cliche goes—and like most cliches. It's true—none of us knows what he'd do in a dire situation like that. I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I'd at least take a run at the guy.

John Derbyshire
-------------

[Duckwater 0]

I too am dumbfounded at how many people he killed with a pistol. And, if the reports are true that he only had 50 round of ammo, it becomes almost unbelieveable.

Bill, I can truthfully say that I would smart off to Iranians until the beatings started, but I honestly dont know how I would react here.

You would need a group to charge him, 4 or more. Charging alone would be suicide.

The Asian community is worried about backlash. 99% of us know this had nothing to do with him being Asian, but Im worried about the 1% dipshits.

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

“My God, if someone shoots somebody there should be an immediate lockdown of the campus,” said John Shourds.

Yeah. That way, the shooter wouldn't have had to chain the door shut to keep the intended victims in.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Douva 0]

Quote

Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn't anyone rush the guy? It's not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness' sake—one of them reportedly a .22.

At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him. Handguns aren't very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can't hit squat. I doubt this guy was any better than I am. And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage—your chances aren't bad.

Yes, yes, I know it's easy to say these things: but didn't the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything? As the cliche goes—and like most cliches. It's true—none of us knows what he'd do in a dire situation like that. I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I'd at least take a run at the guy.

John Derbyshire

That's really easy to say when you're not the one huddled behind a desk, watching your classmates and professor be shot dead, hoping the gunman will somehow overlook you. I wouldn't fault anyone for the way they behaved. Tactically speaking, their response to the attack might not have been ideal, but they haven't been trained tactically. They are/were college students, not Marines.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[twibbles 0]

Quote

Quote

“My God, if someone shoots somebody there should be an immediate lockdown of the campus,” said John Shourds.

Yeah. That way, the shooter wouldn't have had to chain the door shut to keep the intended victims in.

On top of that, how practical would it to be to lockdown a town everytime someone got shot?

Eugene

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of
people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Quote

“My God, if someone shoots somebody there should be an immediate lockdown of the campus,” said John Shourds.

Yeah. That way, the shooter wouldn't have had to chain the door shut to keep the intended victims in.

So. Should we ban chains along w/ the guns now?

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

I'm actually shocked it took this long for someone to channel their helplessness and anger onto someone else.

Yes, and it's still childish. It's a revenge, mob mentality, vigilante, response. Unreasoning and totally emotionally based.

Quick, let's find someone to HANG. Then we'll all FEEL better. I expect better from people.

Quote

Somehow a release is found, and to each their own at that point.

absolutely not "to each their own". Not when that release involves unfair accusations and blame on innocent bystanders

the 'blame game' is a horrible response. these people need to grow up

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants