kallend 2,113 #126 April 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDo we know whether he had a criminal record before shooting his first victim, or was he a "law abiding gun owner" up until that time? I think it is safe to say he was not a law abiding gun owner before he shot his first victim. His 9mm and .22 handguns had the serial numbers removed. Not legal Ohh, that's gotta hurt, John. According to the VA State Police, both guns were obtained LEGALLY. Yep. They were legal up till the point where he filed off the serial numbers. (Guess he thought about surviving the event). Possession of weapons with altered or obscured serial numbers is considered proof of bad intent and I believe is a felony. There is no defense for it, so yes, he was a criminal before he shot his first victim. So this "law abiding gun owner" morphed into a criminal and a homicidal maniac. A-Mazing that such a thing could happen to a law abiding individual deemed worthy just a week or so ago to legally buy a deadly weapon.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #127 April 18, 2007 QuoteQuotePossession of weapons with altered or obscured serial numbers is considered proof of bad intent and I believe is a felony. There is no defense for it, so yes, he was a criminal before he shot his first victim. Spliting hairs at this point. The guns were purchased legally. When you're dealing with John, splitting hairs is better than the norm. He likes to claim that most or many killers were law abiding citizens up till the point of their crime, though he has done very little to prove his position. In this case, it is clearly a false statement. But not a chance in hell he'll admit it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #128 April 18, 2007 But then you are not admitting the fact that when it came to procuring the guns - this guy was one of your "law abiding citizens" that you seem to trot out at any given moment. And now more than 30 people are dead because of that. The "law abiding" line is a meaningless one precisely because of occurrences like this.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #129 April 18, 2007 Quote>Is this due to the glrofication of guns? Is it due to it? No. Is it part of it? Yes. >My preferred method would be to have the power evened out by >placing the equalizer in the hands of others. I think it's pretty clear that placing those guns in the hands of law abiding citizens could help prevent another tragedy like this one. I think it's equally clear that placing those guns in the hands of the people you describe (who would want to break the record he set) would result in many more tragedies like this one. Which is why I think a solution like "give everyone guns" (or even "take everyone's guns away") won't help - or to be more accurate won't work any more or less than doing nothing. I think this is a well reasoned response. The causes of an event like this will never make sense and will never be stopped (completly) from happening again."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #130 April 18, 2007 QuoteBut then you are not admitting the fact that when it came to procuring the guns - this guy was one of your "law abiding citizens" that you seem to trot out at any given moment. And now more than 30 people are dead because of that. The "law abiding" line is a meaningless one precisely because of occurrences like this. It he got the guns legaly (and he may have) why were the sn's filed off the guns?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #131 April 18, 2007 Thats for him to know and everyone else to guess. Like someone else mentioned, maybe he intended coming out of this alive and then ditching the evidence. Who knows. But evidence seems to suggest he got the guns legally. (just going on previous posts)Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #132 April 18, 2007 QuoteSo this "law abiding gun owner" morphed into a criminal and a homicidal maniac. A-Mazing that such a thing could happen to a law abiding individual deemed worthy just a week or so ago to legally buy a deadly weapon. I guess we just need good re-education camps to train the weak minded... and while they are in there....provide them with Ho's so they can get their little peckers wet.. instead of being so hung up on one woman that he feels that if he cant have her no one will. General Rant.. not aimed at you Kallend....... Guys.. do us all a favor.. if you feel the need to off yourself.. please do it without taking someone else with you....and dont tell anyone first just fucking go do it and get your miserable existence over with and keep the rest of us out of it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #133 April 18, 2007 Quoteprovide them with Ho's so they can get their little peckers wet Nappy headed ones (i still don't know what this is) or normal ones?Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #134 April 18, 2007 QuoteI'd also say it would relate to environment with those in high population density environs also much more likely to resort to violence due to political policy in those areas, general entitlement attitude, crappy education,Bingo. I'll call it psuedo victimhood. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #135 April 18, 2007 Nappy hair ....google can be your friend http://www.nappturality.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #136 April 18, 2007 Why thankyou milady So now i know! Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #137 April 18, 2007 First off, is it only men that go of and murder before killing themselves? Second Quoteand dont tell anyone first just fucking go do it and get your miserable existence over with and keep the rest of us out of it While it would obviously have been much better if this kid killed himself without taking any one with him, I am appauled that you would give it out that advice. Even though I consider you to be one of the most visious, hateful people on these forums, that comment still makes me shake my head. Suicide NEVER keeps the rest of us out of it. It will forever haunt people wondering what they could have done different. Some would consider it a very selfish act for the pain it leaves behind. Not as selfish as taking others with you no doubt, but a deeply disturbing scaring event none the less. Goodbye That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #138 April 18, 2007 QuoteFirst off, is it only men that go of and murder before killing themselves? Seems to be pretty common.... like nearly a daily occurence in this country and YES.. it is almost always fucked up assholes. Murder Suicide..... look it up... its happened several times in Seattle this year alone. QuoteEven though I consider you to be one of the most visious, hateful people on these forums, that comment still makes me shake my head. Thanks for the Personal Attack.....I doubt you will be banned for it though. It is what it is.... http://www.vpc.org/studies/amertrend.htm Most murderers in murder-suicides are male In this study, 90.4 percent of the offenders were male. Other studies analyzing murder-suicide have found that most perpetrators of murder-suicide are male—more than 90 percent in recent studies of the United States.7 Another study which only looked at murder-suicides involving couples noted that more than 90 percent were perpetrated by men.8 This is consistent with homicides in general, in which nearly 90 percent of homicides are committed by male offenders.9 However, most homicides involve male victims killed by male offenders (65 percent), whereas a male victim being specifically targeted by a male offender in a murder-suicide is relatively rare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DZJ 0 #139 April 18, 2007 QuoteFirst off, is it only men that go of and murder before killing themselves? Second Quoteand dont tell anyone first just fucking go do it and get your miserable existence over with and keep the rest of us out of it While it would obviously have been much better if this kid killed himself without taking any one with him, I am appalled that you would give it out that advice. Even though I consider you to be one of the most visious, hateful people on these forums, that comment still makes me shake my head. Suicide NEVER keeps the rest of us out of it. It will forever haunt people wondering what they could have done different. Some would consider it a very selfish act for the pain it leaves behind. Not as selfish as taking others with you no doubt, but a deeply disturbing scaring event none the less. Goodbye Heard an interesting article on the radio recently about this sort of thing, and how one's perspective shifts if you try and think of these sorts of incidents as acts of suicide first, rather than as acts of murder first. Was interesting because while we tend to think of these awfuls events as mass murders, they are perhaps really just terribly perverted suicides (if suicide wasn't terrible enough). I find it something of a difficult question really, because while school-shooting-as-suicide seems to make sense from a psychological point of view, it seems to muddy the waters as to who the victims are and so gives difficulty on an emotional level. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duckwater 0 #140 April 18, 2007 I heard that these Japanese Pilots in WW2 that were called Kamakazies were especially prone to suicide for some reason.... They were all males too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #141 April 18, 2007 Quote Quote Quote This is complete bullshit.. Just today...www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2764092#2764092 The bullshit is all yours. Yeah, god forbid someone would recommend safer ammo. That's terrible. I think we should only allow armor piercing rounds... And yeah, a lot of posters on here ARE probably "afraid to go outside without being able to shoot someone"... They want to be able to shoot someone who wants to take away our constitutional rights. I've never met anyone who's afraid to go outside without a gun. That's silly. And what exactly are "armor piercing rounds?"I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #142 April 18, 2007 QuoteLaw and order disintegrated in an American city and the only peole who were able to protect their homes from being looted were the ones who dat out on the front porch with their guns in plain sight. DING...DING...DING...We have a winner!I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douva 0 #143 April 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDo we know whether he had a criminal record before shooting his first victim, or was he a "law abiding gun owner" up until that time? I think it is safe to say he was not a law abiding gun owner before he shot his first victim. His 9mm and .22 handguns had the serial numbers removed. Not legal Ohh, that's gotta hurt, John. According to the VA State Police, both guns were obtained LEGALLY. Yep. They were legal up till the point where he filed off the serial numbers. (Guess he thought about surviving the event). Possession of weapons with altered or obscured serial numbers is considered proof of bad intent and I believe is a felony. There is no defense for it, so yes, he was a criminal before he shot his first victim. So this "law abiding gun owner" morphed into a criminal and a homicidal maniac. A-Mazing that such a thing could happen to a law abiding individual deemed worthy just a week or so ago to legally buy a deadly weapon. Yep, no system is perfect. Occasionally, people will procure guns through all the proper channels and then use them to do bad things. Likewise, if guns are banned, people will occasionally procure them through improper channels and use them to do bad things.I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaVinci 0 #144 April 18, 2007 QuoteHow about is we just prohibit poor people from having guns??? As much as you joke about that, some gun laws do that exactly. Such as the one in IL that put a very large tax on ammo. Making guns expensive is one of the ways to control them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PWScottIV 0 #145 April 18, 2007 QuoteI've never met anyone who's afraid to go outside without a gun. That's silly. /Quote I agree. I wasn't saying that, I was replying to that ridiculous statement. QuoteAnd what exactly are "armor piercing rounds?" Well, they're illegal, so I've never actually seen them in person, but the bullet is typically made of steel so it won't deform/fragment as easily and it has a relatively sharp point. Apparently they were a problem for a while in the 80s-90s, where they went by the name of "cop killers" because soft body-armor did essentially nothing to stop them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_piercing_round I was being sarcastic because some asshat was complaining about someone talking about frangible rounds that turn into a fine powder on impact, minimizing/eliminating the chance of penetrating through even thin walls.Gravity Waits for No One. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DaVinci 0 #146 April 18, 2007 Quote Deal. And since the sheer volume of gun posts here in Sc is, ah, slightly higher than I realised I may have to just that HAHA...do your homework Quote Ok, it may well be a small group that is responsible for most of the murder rate. Why, in America, is that group so much larger than in other developed countries? What is it, in your view, that makes poor disenfranchised Americans more likely to turn to Gang violence/ gun crime than poor people in Europe or Canada? Great question. I think the number of the population that is poor is just higher. US population: 298,444,215 US population below poverty line : 12% 35,813,305 poor UK population: 60,609,153 UK population below poverty line: 17% 10,303,556 poor Canada population: 33,098,932 Canada population below poverty line: 15.9% 5,262,730 poor Source: CIA factbook. According to those numbers the US has more people below poverty level than Canada has TOTAL people. Even with the US's RATE being lower the greater number of people means the US has more poor people. Add into the equation that the larger the population the larger chance of that population having a born nutjob is also higher. Quote As I said in my first post, I don't think that guns alone are the problem. The question is why do Americans (or certain groups of Americans) seem so much more likely to use them than the same groups in other countries? That is simple...They can. The criminal will use the best tool for the job. Guns are easier to get here than in other places. So that is granted. Also the number of guns in circulation is also higher, again granted that the number of guns makes them easier to get and use. However, the fact is that even with gun laws other countries do have gun violence...And that the gun violence seems to be growing. Also, gun laws will not really prevent bad guys from getting them. Also, US news is broadcast all over the world. US papers are read all over the world and only bad news sells papers. I have had friends come over from Europe and expect to hear gunshots on a daily basis. All they ever hear about the US is the crime. Most return home quite surprised at the LACK of violence they encountered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites akarunway 1 #147 April 18, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Do we know whether he had a criminal record before shooting his first victim, or was he a "law abiding gun owner" up until that time? I think it is safe to say he was not a law abiding gun owner before he shot his first victim. His 9mm and .22 handguns had the serial numbers removed. Not legal Ohh, that's gotta hurt, John. According to the VA State Police, both guns were obtained LEGALLY. Yep. They were legal up till the point where he filed off the serial numbers. (Guess he thought about surviving the event). Possession of weapons with altered or obscured serial numbers is considered proof of bad intent and I believe is a felony. There is no defense for it, so yes, he was a criminal before he shot his first victim. So this "law abiding gun owner" morphed into a criminal and a homicidal maniac. A-Mazing that such a thing could happen to a law abiding individual deemed worthy just a week or so ago to legally buy a deadly weapon. And if he couldn't he could have bought one off the street. And he could also have plowed his car into dozens of people if he wishedI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #148 April 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDo we know whether he had a criminal record before shooting his first victim, or was he a "law abiding gun owner" up until that time? I think it is safe to say he was not a law abiding gun owner before he shot his first victim. His 9mm and .22 handguns had the serial numbers removed. Not legal Ohh, that's gotta hurt, John. According to the VA State Police, both guns were obtained LEGALLY. And he became a criminal once he filed the serial numbers off, and broke the law again taking them on campus... your point being?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,113 #149 April 18, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Do we know whether he had a criminal record before shooting his first victim, or was he a "law abiding gun owner" up until that time? I think it is safe to say he was not a law abiding gun owner before he shot his first victim. His 9mm and .22 handguns had the serial numbers removed. Not legal Ohh, that's gotta hurt, John. According to the VA State Police, both guns were obtained LEGALLY. Yep. They were legal up till the point where he filed off the serial numbers. (Guess he thought about surviving the event). Possession of weapons with altered or obscured serial numbers is considered proof of bad intent and I believe is a felony. There is no defense for it, so yes, he was a criminal before he shot his first victim. So this "law abiding gun owner" morphed into a criminal and a homicidal maniac. A-Mazing that such a thing could happen to a law abiding individual deemed worthy just a week or so ago to legally buy a deadly weapon. And if he couldn't he could have bought one off the street. And he could also have plowed his car into dozens of people if he wished No need, was there. He got his gun easily, along with its 15 round magazine. Sometimes a few obstacles do discourage people.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #150 April 18, 2007 QuoteBut then you are not admitting the fact that when it came to procuring the guns - this guy was one of your "law abiding citizens" that you seem to trot out at any given moment. And now more than 30 people are dead because of that. The "law abiding" line is a meaningless one precisely because of occurrences like this. The news has said that he lit a dorm room on fire and was accused of stalking several women, all of which seems to have had little or no law enforcement follow-up. Setting fires and stalking women are crimes, both of which would stop or bring into question the qualifications of someone to buy a gun, however, if campus law enforcement failed to press charges or file state police paperwork to report this unbalanced and illegal behavior they should be asked why. The problem is, many or most colleges try to play down or deny crime problems on campus in order to preserve the image of the school as a safe place. If this happened in this case, the results were indeed tragic. When the whole story comes out(if it does) I am willing to bet that there were plenty of warning signs that were ignored that could have prevented all this. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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DaVinci 0 #146 April 18, 2007 Quote Deal. And since the sheer volume of gun posts here in Sc is, ah, slightly higher than I realised I may have to just that HAHA...do your homework Quote Ok, it may well be a small group that is responsible for most of the murder rate. Why, in America, is that group so much larger than in other developed countries? What is it, in your view, that makes poor disenfranchised Americans more likely to turn to Gang violence/ gun crime than poor people in Europe or Canada? Great question. I think the number of the population that is poor is just higher. US population: 298,444,215 US population below poverty line : 12% 35,813,305 poor UK population: 60,609,153 UK population below poverty line: 17% 10,303,556 poor Canada population: 33,098,932 Canada population below poverty line: 15.9% 5,262,730 poor Source: CIA factbook. According to those numbers the US has more people below poverty level than Canada has TOTAL people. Even with the US's RATE being lower the greater number of people means the US has more poor people. Add into the equation that the larger the population the larger chance of that population having a born nutjob is also higher. Quote As I said in my first post, I don't think that guns alone are the problem. The question is why do Americans (or certain groups of Americans) seem so much more likely to use them than the same groups in other countries? That is simple...They can. The criminal will use the best tool for the job. Guns are easier to get here than in other places. So that is granted. Also the number of guns in circulation is also higher, again granted that the number of guns makes them easier to get and use. However, the fact is that even with gun laws other countries do have gun violence...And that the gun violence seems to be growing. Also, gun laws will not really prevent bad guys from getting them. Also, US news is broadcast all over the world. US papers are read all over the world and only bad news sells papers. I have had friends come over from Europe and expect to hear gunshots on a daily basis. All they ever hear about the US is the crime. Most return home quite surprised at the LACK of violence they encountered. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #147 April 18, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Do we know whether he had a criminal record before shooting his first victim, or was he a "law abiding gun owner" up until that time? I think it is safe to say he was not a law abiding gun owner before he shot his first victim. His 9mm and .22 handguns had the serial numbers removed. Not legal Ohh, that's gotta hurt, John. According to the VA State Police, both guns were obtained LEGALLY. Yep. They were legal up till the point where he filed off the serial numbers. (Guess he thought about surviving the event). Possession of weapons with altered or obscured serial numbers is considered proof of bad intent and I believe is a felony. There is no defense for it, so yes, he was a criminal before he shot his first victim. So this "law abiding gun owner" morphed into a criminal and a homicidal maniac. A-Mazing that such a thing could happen to a law abiding individual deemed worthy just a week or so ago to legally buy a deadly weapon. And if he couldn't he could have bought one off the street. And he could also have plowed his car into dozens of people if he wishedI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #148 April 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteDo we know whether he had a criminal record before shooting his first victim, or was he a "law abiding gun owner" up until that time? I think it is safe to say he was not a law abiding gun owner before he shot his first victim. His 9mm and .22 handguns had the serial numbers removed. Not legal Ohh, that's gotta hurt, John. According to the VA State Police, both guns were obtained LEGALLY. And he became a criminal once he filed the serial numbers off, and broke the law again taking them on campus... your point being?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,113 #149 April 18, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Do we know whether he had a criminal record before shooting his first victim, or was he a "law abiding gun owner" up until that time? I think it is safe to say he was not a law abiding gun owner before he shot his first victim. His 9mm and .22 handguns had the serial numbers removed. Not legal Ohh, that's gotta hurt, John. According to the VA State Police, both guns were obtained LEGALLY. Yep. They were legal up till the point where he filed off the serial numbers. (Guess he thought about surviving the event). Possession of weapons with altered or obscured serial numbers is considered proof of bad intent and I believe is a felony. There is no defense for it, so yes, he was a criminal before he shot his first victim. So this "law abiding gun owner" morphed into a criminal and a homicidal maniac. A-Mazing that such a thing could happen to a law abiding individual deemed worthy just a week or so ago to legally buy a deadly weapon. And if he couldn't he could have bought one off the street. And he could also have plowed his car into dozens of people if he wished No need, was there. He got his gun easily, along with its 15 round magazine. Sometimes a few obstacles do discourage people.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #150 April 18, 2007 QuoteBut then you are not admitting the fact that when it came to procuring the guns - this guy was one of your "law abiding citizens" that you seem to trot out at any given moment. And now more than 30 people are dead because of that. The "law abiding" line is a meaningless one precisely because of occurrences like this. The news has said that he lit a dorm room on fire and was accused of stalking several women, all of which seems to have had little or no law enforcement follow-up. Setting fires and stalking women are crimes, both of which would stop or bring into question the qualifications of someone to buy a gun, however, if campus law enforcement failed to press charges or file state police paperwork to report this unbalanced and illegal behavior they should be asked why. The problem is, many or most colleges try to play down or deny crime problems on campus in order to preserve the image of the school as a safe place. If this happened in this case, the results were indeed tragic. When the whole story comes out(if it does) I am willing to bet that there were plenty of warning signs that were ignored that could have prevented all this. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
