willard 0 #26 April 11, 2007 Quote Quote In this country when a police officer is giving you a lawful order you are required to comply even if you disagree with it. You'll have your chance to speak later. And since der gestapo errr I mean Law Compliance Officer is always right in this country.. thou shalt not deviate in the slightest to ANYTHING they tell you????? You are well indoctrinated I see. Since when have cops always been right? I never said they were. I also never said you were required to comply with everything a cop tells you to do under all circumstances. Those situations under which you are required BY LAW to comply with an officers directions are spelled out in civil code. You are welcome to look them up if you wish. In fact, I suggest you do before you start cutting on me and suggesting I am in some way a mindless puppet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 April 11, 2007 Quote In fact, I suggest you do before you start cutting on me and suggesting I am in some way a mindless puppet. right out of the script - who told you to say that? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #28 April 11, 2007 Quote Quote Since the struggle isn't in clear view in the video, it is impossible to say why they chose to taser. Maybe he was striking at them. Maybe he was trying to bite. Maybe he was doing nothing but laying there like a wet noodle. I can't see how anyone, myself included, can draw any conclusions from this vid. Unless he was being placed under arrest the taser use is not justified, especially to remove a student from a library. They should tie that campus cop down and taser his nutsack for a few hours. Maybe he was being placed under arrest (disorderly conduct for refusing to leave when asked?)? We don't know. At least, I don't know. You are right, though, that unless he was resisting arest he shouldn't have been tasered. Unless he asked to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #29 April 11, 2007 Quote>Beats having to repeat yourself indefinitely. No, it really doesn't. I don't know of anyone who has died from talking too much. That's another silly statement. Cops have wives and kids and their own right to survive an encounter, they also carry deadly weapons, they cannot afford to get into wrestling matches with belligerent fools who refuse to comply with legal instructions. The risks are obvious. They cannot simply use persuasion indefinitely as enforcement it doesn't work, that's why we need cops. They tried talk for a prolonged period, they asked the guy repeatedly to comply and he repeatedly refused, prefering to determine his own (changing) course of action. A taser is a reasonable option once the suspect has repeatedly refused to comply with verbal requests/instructions and has been warned they will be tasered. Tasers have been abused by cops, but I doubt they were in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #30 April 11, 2007 QuoteSince the struggle isn't in clear view in the video, it is impossible to say why they chose to taser. Maybe he was striking at them. Maybe he was trying to bite. Maybe he was doing nothing but laying there like a wet noodle. I can't see how anyone, myself included, can draw any conclusions from this vid. "Stand up or get tasered" Tasers are supposed to be alternatives to deadly force. "Stand up or get shot." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,076 #31 April 11, 2007 >Cops have wives and kids and their own right to survive an encounter, they >also carry deadly weapons, they cannot afford to get into wrestling >matches with belligerent fools who refuse to comply with legal instructions. Agreed. Had he been wrestling with the cop (or had threatened to do so) then taser usage would have been justified. >They tried talk for a prolonged period, they asked the guy repeatedly to >comply and he repeatedly refused, prefering to determine his own >(changing) course of action. Nope. Proportional response. If it's really true, as you say, that trying any less-dangerous course of action is ill-advised, then he would have been justified shooting the student had he not had the taser. Clearly that's unacceptable, because the response is not proportional to the threat. Now, had the student had a knife, and was threatening other students (or the cops themselves) then shooting may have been acceptable. But an agitated student is not a deadly threat and should not be treated as such. Nor should they use something on him that _could_ kill him when he has given no signs of deadly intent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #32 April 11, 2007 Quote A taser is a reasonable option once the suspect has repeatedly refused to comply with verbal requests/instructions and has been warned they will be tasered. He wasn't even breaking a law. (Mr. Bookman from Seinfeld was not there!) A cop telling you to leave is not the law. It's just some dickhead with a taser and a gun telling you to leave the library. Unless he is acting to enforce the law, his actions are not justified. There have been several cases of peaceful, non-threatening resistance where the police responded with tasers and/or pepper spray, and they LOST the lawsuits. Just google 'q-tip pepper spray' - a case of police swabbing pepper spray directly into the eyeballs of peaceful protestors and then spraying them inches from their eyes. Yes, the cops lost. Less lethal can be good, but the potential for abuse is huge. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #33 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuote A taser is a reasonable option once the suspect has repeatedly refused to comply with verbal requests/instructions and has been warned they will be tasered. He wasn't even breaking a law. (Mr. Bookman from Seinfeld was not there!) A cop telling you to leave is not the law. It's just some dickhead with a taser and a gun telling you to leave the library. Unless he is acting to enforce the law, his actions are not justified. There have been several cases of peaceful, non-threatening resistance where the police responded with tasers and/or pepper spray, and they LOST the lawsuits. Just google 'q-tip pepper spray' - a case of police swabbing pepper spray directly into the eyeballs of peaceful protestors and then spraying them inches from their eyes. Yes, the cops lost. Less lethal can be good, but the potential for abuse is huge. How do you know he wasn't breaking the law? If he was asked to leave (for whatever reason) and refused while making a scene then he was engaged in disorderly conduct. We don't know for sure what happened before the camera was turned on. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
78RATS 0 #34 April 11, 2007 Quote A taser is a reasonable option once the suspect has repeatedly refused to comply with verbal requests/instructions and has been warned they will be tasered. Not true. There is a use of force continuum that police are supposed to follow. Deadly force is the last step. Tasers are an alternative to deadly force and should only be used as a last resort. Tasers can and do kill people. BTW - I think the student was a douchbag. Rat for Life - Fly till I die When them stupid ass bitches ask why Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #35 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuote A taser is a reasonable option once the suspect has repeatedly refused to comply with verbal requests/instructions and has been warned they will be tasered. He wasn't even breaking a law. (Mr. Bookman from Seinfeld was not there!) A cop telling you to leave is not the law. It's just some dickhead with a taser and a gun telling you to leave the library. Unless he is acting to enforce the law, his actions are not justified. There have been several cases of peaceful, non-threatening resistance where the police responded with tasers and/or pepper spray, and they LOST the lawsuits. Just google 'q-tip pepper spray' - a case of police swabbing pepper spray directly into the eyeballs of peaceful protestors and then spraying them inches from their eyes. Yes, the cops lost. Less lethal can be good, but the potential for abuse is huge. People in the library require ID, the cop cannot determine if he's there legally or not without seeing ID, the University requires ID to be shown on request. You can argue the technicality but it's a dumb argument that only works with hindsight which the cop cannot have. If it were any other way anyone in the library would be unchallengable even if unauthorized. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #36 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuote A taser is a reasonable option once the suspect has repeatedly refused to comply with verbal requests/instructions and has been warned they will be tasered. Not true. There is a use of force continuum that police are supposed to follow. Deadly force is the last step. Tasers are an alternative to deadly force and should only be used as a last resort. Tasers can and do kill people. BTW - I think the student was a douchbag. It depends on your reasoning of what the next move would have been. A wrestling match is not an option with an armed cop, who might lose his weapon to a resisting suspect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #37 April 11, 2007 Quotehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E&mode=related&search= This is disgusting. Total abuse of power. Bullshit. He decided to be a hardass towards the cop who was doing his job. He flaunted the rule like a spoiled little douche. Fuck him. Edit: He refused to leave when asked to show his student ID. They called police, who said he had to show ID or leave. He decided he wanted to have his cake and eat it too...Fuck him. Whiny fucking pampered hippy douchebag.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #38 April 11, 2007 QuoteIt depends on your reasoning of what the next move would have been. A wrestling match is not an option with an armed cop, who might lose his weapon to a resisting suspect. Or, frankly tie up law enforcement resources for minor things when they are really needed elsewhere: "Officer, why did you take so long to get here. The crooks got away and the guard, Jon, is dead. If you got here in time, none of that would have happened. Jon's family will be horrified." "I had to say 'pretty please stop trespassing' to a self righteous college student 7 times before I could haul him into the squad car. If I don't, I lose my job." "Oh, then I guess it's ok" cops aren't babysitters, they have real criminals to go after and wasting time on this idiot puts others at risk - sitting and negotiating for 90 minutes isn't really acceptable. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #39 April 11, 2007 Quote People in the library require ID, the cop cannot determine if he's there legally or not without seeing ID, the University requires ID to be shown on request. You can argue the technicality but it's a dumb argument that only works with hindsight which the cop cannot have. If it were any other way anyone in the library would be unchallengable even if unauthorized. While the policy of the library may require ID, I seriously doubt a law has been passed requiring it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #40 April 11, 2007 Quotecops aren't babysitters, they have real criminals to go after and wasting time on this idiot puts others at risk - sitting and negotiating for 90 minutes isn't really acceptable. I wonder what their code is for their force for the emergency use of lights and sirens when headed to the donut shop... busy busy boys they are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #41 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuote People in the library require ID, the cop cannot determine if he's there legally or not without seeing ID, the University requires ID to be shown on request. You can argue the technicality but it's a dumb argument that only works with hindsight which the cop cannot have. If it were any other way anyone in the library would be unchallengable even if unauthorized. While the policy of the library may require ID, I seriously doubt a law has been passed requiring it. The library is empowered by statute to implement and enforce policy. They don't need a specific law, just an enabling statute.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #42 April 11, 2007 He was on his way to the exit when he was stopped and tazered. If the kid is an a-hole or not, you still don't tazer a student who is working in the library. They could have very easily cuffed him, put him under arrest, and carried him to the squad car. Instead, they opted for their jackboot strategy instead. They will lose in the lawsuit. There is precedent in this case: http://www.nopepperspray.org/ -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #43 April 11, 2007 Quote They should tie that campus cop down and taser his nutsack for a few hours. The only reason I watched till the end was hope that eventually some of the spectators would grow a set and give the cops a dose of their own medicine. Oh well. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #44 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuote They should tie that campus cop down and taser his nutsack for a few hours. The only reason I watched till the end was hope that eventually some of the spectators would grow a set and give the cops a dose of their own medicine. ...Which would allow them to shoot to stop. Don't fuck with a cop doing his job.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #45 April 11, 2007 QuoteHe was on his way to the exit when he was stopped and tazered. If the kid is an a-hole or not, you still don't tazer a student who is working in the library. They could have very easily cuffed him, put him under arrest, and carried him to the squad car. Instead, they opted for their jackboot strategy instead. They will lose in the lawsuit. There is precedent in this case: http://www.nopepperspray.org/ Incorrect, after refusing to leave and refusing to show ID he finally decided he wanted to leave, but he was subject to arrest by then. Your use of the word easily is presumptious. Placing the handcufs on a resisting and uncooperative suspect is risky. He insisted on leaving, he was not following simple instructions or requests. They may lose the lawsuit, it depends on datails and presentations we will not be privvy to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #46 April 11, 2007 QuoteWhich would allow them to shoot to stop. Don't fuck with a cop doing his job. Which means when they have that adrenalin rush going and want to fuck over someone that they have started fucking with... dont get in their way no matter how wrong it it for them to be doing what they are doing.. they will justify fucking you over as well and make up shit in the report to justify their actions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #47 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhich would allow them to shoot to stop. Don't fuck with a cop doing his job. Which means when they have that adrenalin rush going and want to fuck over someone that they have started fucking with... dont get in their way no matter how wrong it it for them to be doing what they are doing.. they will justify fucking you over as well and make up shit in the report to justify their actions. The deluded pretext presented was of a mass attack on the cops, not a cop attacking unprovoked on an adrenaline high. Not that this NEVER happens but you're assuming that it would happen even when the scenario presented is one where they'd have every right to defend themselves. All the dizzy leftist bullshit in the world won't stop a bullet if your self-righteous indignation leads you to attack a cop. You will deservedly and promptly get shot between the horns. The cop will be inconvenienced by your asinine actions but will not need to resort to any invention, he'll merely stick to the facts and walk. Meanwhile you will be measured for a pine box. If you have a complaint about a cop put it in writing, not into action. The jackass in this scenario was facing simple ejection, then arrest, there was no need for him to escalate it. The rabble did him no favors. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #48 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote They should tie that campus cop down and taser his nutsack for a few hours. The only reason I watched till the end was hope that eventually some of the spectators would grow a set and give the cops a dose of their own medicine. ...Which would allow them to shoot to stop. Don't fuck with a cop doing his job. As best I could tell, they weren't. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #49 April 11, 2007 QuoteThe deluded pretext presented was of a mass attack on the cops, not a cop attacking unprovoked on an adrenaline high. Actually, I was hoping some of the crowd had their own tasers. If tasing someone for sitting on the floor is justified, surely tasing someone for tasing a non-threatening person is as well. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #50 April 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote They should tie that campus cop down and taser his nutsack for a few hours. The only reason I watched till the end was hope that eventually some of the spectators would grow a set and give the cops a dose of their own medicine. ...Which would allow them to shoot to stop. Don't fuck with a cop doing his job. As best I could tell, they weren't. What do you call the medical procedure that uses this opinion to resuscitate corpses? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
