Rookie120 0 #1 April 6, 2007 QuoteAn iPod for every kid? Are they !#$!ing idiots? The Detroit News We have come to the conclusion that the crisis Michigan faces is not a shortage of revenue, but an excess of idiocy. Facing a budget deficit that has passed the $1 billion mark, House Democrats Thursday offered a spending plan that would buy a MP3 player or iPod for every school child in Michigan. No cost estimate was attached to their hare-brained idea to "invest" in education. Details, we are promised, will follow. The Democrats, led by their increasingly erratic speaker Andy Dillon of Redford Township, also pledge $100 million to make better downtowns. Their plan goes beyond cluelessness. Democrats are either entirely indifferent to the idea that extreme hard times demand extreme belt tightening, or they are bone stupid. We lean toward the latter. We say that because the House plan also keeps alive, again without specifics, the promise of tax hikes. The range of options, according to Rep. Steve Tobocman, D-Detroit, includes raising the income tax, levying a 6 percent tax on some services, and taxing junk food and soda. We wonder how financially strained Michigan residents will feel about paying higher taxes to buy someone else's kid an iPod. That they would include such frivolity in a crisis budget plan indicates how tough it will be to bring real spending reform to Michigan. Senate Republicans issued a plan a week ago that eliminates the deficit with hard spending cuts. Now their leader, Mike Bishop of Rochester Hills, is sounding wobbly, suggesting he might compromise on a tax hike. We hope Bishop is reading the polls that say three-quarters of Michigan residents oppose higher taxes. There are few things in the House budget outline from which to forge a compromise. For example, Dillon says he would shift the burden of business taxes to companies that operate in Michigan, but don't have a facility here. The certain outcome of that plan is to drive even more businesses out of Michigan. About all we see of merit is a call for government consolidation and a demand that state employees contribute more to their retirement benefits -- which is no more than House Democrats suggested for future state lawmakers a few weeks ago. We find it ironic that the Democrats are proposing floating $5 billion in revenue bonds to pay for retiree health care, when Gov. Jennifer Granholm vetoed a nearly identical plan by Oakland County because it would cost the state money. Instead of advocating cost-saving changes in public school teacher pension and health plans, Dillon suggests more study. There have been plenty of studies of the issue, with the conclusion being that hundreds of millions of dollars could be saved through reforms. Michigan needs action, not more study committees. Dillon also proposes that the state cover 50 percent of the cost of catastrophic health insurance for everyone in the place, but once again doesn't specify a funding source. Stop the stupidity. Michigan can't tax or spend its way out of this economic catastrophe. The only responsible option is to bring spending in line with current revenues. The mission must be to expand the tax base, rather than to expand taxes, by crafting a budget that encourages growth. We won't get there by wasting money on early Christmas presents for Michigan kids. They want money for iPods but then there is this! Michigan State Police begin layoffs, reassignments LANSING -- Twenty-nine Michigan State Police troopers and two civilian employees have been notified they will be laid off next month, the agency said Wednesday. The layoff notices were issued Monday, spokeswoman Shanon Akans said. Another 87 employees were told Wednesday that they could be demoted, dropped to a lower pay rate or assigned to a new post, she said. The moves are meant to eliminate a $13.6-million deficit in the state police budget for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30. The layoffs alone will save $2.3 million, and the department also expects to save $2.5 million by canceling a 50-recruit trooper training school that was to have begun in August, Akans said. The department has laid off employees only once before, in 1980, she said. The layoffs will drop the number of on-the-road troopers below 1,000 for the first time in more than 30 years, the Michigan State Police Troopers Association said when the cutbacks were first announced in February. *** Seems to me they have there priorities in the wrong area. Edit for posting wrong storyIf you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #2 April 7, 2007 Just another socialist petri dish. Sit back and enjoy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Botellines 0 #3 April 7, 2007 QuoteJust another socialist petri dish. Sit back and enjoy. What has socialism have to do with this. I live in a socialist country and we have to pay for our own ipod´s. It is more a capitalist thing to lay people off when you have to meet a budget, and the ipod thing looks to me like a PR campaign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #4 April 7, 2007 QuoteJust another socialist petri dish. Sit back and enjoy. I'm tired of sitting back. Who the hell do these damn politicians think they are? I am so sick of hearing why they need more money for schools, roads, or whatever and they have to raise our taxes to do it but then they go and spend millions of shit like this! Just makes my blood boil!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #5 April 7, 2007 Why pretend the thread is about Michigan when it's a Dem thread? Yes, the Desm are the fiscally irresponsible ones..... http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm http://www.uuforum.org/deficit.htm http://zfacts.com/p/318.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #6 April 7, 2007 QuoteWhy pretend the thread is about Michigan when it's a Dem thread? Yes, the Desm are the fiscally irresponsible ones..... It's to the point now it doent matter who they are! D or R they are about the same anymore.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #7 April 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhy pretend the thread is about Michigan when it's a Dem thread? Yes, the Desm are the fiscally irresponsible ones..... It's to the point now it doent matter who they are! D or R they are about the same anymore. The point kept going back to the Dems and used teh Ipods and Michigan s away of justifying the thread. Don't wanna talk about the cites I posted? Hmmmm, that's (not) curious. Dems and Repubs the same? - Dems against the war, R's for it. - Dems for min wage incr, R's against. - Dems for ergonomics bill, R's against it. - Dems against OT law, R's for it. Look, I could drag on and on with probably over 100 examples stemming from major bills, but the side with the garbage as representaives will continue to convolute the 2 parties, the side with the party that is not primarily responsible will continue to draw a severance. If you wanna continue to claim that the debt is teh fault of them all since they are supposedly teh same, then go back and address teh graph. If youy want to keep feeding me this convolution theory, then that's what you will do. I would love to hear how the dems are responsible for the debt. Remember, the debt was 1T as Reagan took office and is now 8.8T. Clinton was the only president to manage the debt via tax increases over the last 40 years sonce Eisenhower. So instead of this convolution theory, lump the Dems with the R's, explain how it is that with a fairly large sample size of years how the neo-con approach is working. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #8 April 7, 2007 QuoteIf you wanna continue to claim that the debt is teh fault of them all since they are supposedly teh same, then go back and address teh graph. If youy want to keep feeding me this convolution theory, then that's what you will do. I would love to hear how the dems are responsible for the debt. Remember, the debt was 1T as Reagan took office and is now 8.8T. Clinton was the only president to manage the debt via tax increases over the last 40 years sonce Eisenhower. So instead of this convolution theory, lump the Dems with the R's, explain how it is that with a fairly large sample size of years how the neo-con approach is working. Where did I ever say it was a D or R problem. All I posted was a OP ED from a paper in my home state. If you want to start a R against D thread go start your own. Go bash your head into a brick wall while your at it because thats about all your going to get out of it. It's an endless battle.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #9 April 8, 2007 Yea pure coincidence: We have come to the conclusion that the crisis Michigan faces is not a shortage of revenue, but an excess of idiocy. Facing a budget deficit that has passed the $1 billion mark, House Democrats Thursday offered a spending plan that would buy a MP3 player or iPod for every school child in Michigan. No cost estimate was attached to their hare-brained idea to "invest" in education. Details, we are promised, will follow. The Democrats, led by their increasingly erratic speaker Andy Dillon of Redford Township, also pledge $100 million to make better downtowns. Their plan goes beyond cluelessness. Democrats are either entirely indifferent to the idea that extreme hard times demand extreme belt tightening, or they are bone stupid. We lean toward the latter. We say that because the House plan also keeps alive, again without specifics, the promise of tax hikes. The range of options, according to Rep. Steve Tobocman, D-Detroit, includes raising the income tax, levying a 6 percent tax on some services, and taxing junk food and soda. We wonder how financially strained Michigan residents will feel about paying higher taxes to buy someone else's kid an iPod. That they would include such frivolity in a crisis budget plan indicates how tough it will be to bring real spending reform to Michigan. Senate Republicans issued a plan a week ago that eliminates the deficit with hard spending cuts. Now their leader, Mike Bishop of Rochester Hills, is sounding wobbly, suggesting he might compromise on a tax hike. We hope Bishop is reading the polls that say three-quarters of Michigan residents oppose higher taxes. There are few things in the House budget outline from which to forge a compromise. For example, Dillon says he would shift the burden of business taxes to companies that operate in Michigan, but don't have a facility here. The certain outcome of that plan is to drive even more businesses out of Michigan. About all we see of merit is a call for government consolidation and a demand that state employees contribute more to their retirement benefits -- which is no more than House Democrats suggested for future state lawmakers a few weeks ago. We find it ironic that the Democrats are proposing floating $5 billion in revenue bonds to pay for retiree health care, when Gov. Jennifer Granholm vetoed a nearly identical plan by Oakland County because it would cost the state money. Instead of advocating cost-saving changes in public school teacher pension and health plans, Dillon suggests more study. There have been plenty of studies of the issue, with the conclusion being that hundreds of millions of dollars could be saved through reforms. Michigan needs action, not more study committees. Dillon also proposes that the state cover 50 percent of the cost of catastrophic health insurance for everyone in the place, but once again doesn't specify a funding source. Stop the stupidity. Michigan can't tax or spend its way out of this economic catastrophe. The only responsible option is to bring spending in line with current revenues. The mission must be to expand the tax base, rather than to expand taxes, by crafting a budget that encourages growth. We won't get there by wasting money on early Christmas presents for Michigan kids. QuoteWhere did I ever say it was a D or R problem. All I posted was a OP ED from a paper in my home state. You didn't, you posted an article about Ipods for kids that was really an attack on Dems. Quote If you want to start a R against D thread go start your own. Why, you saved me the trouble QuoteGo bash your head into a brick wall while your at it because thats about all your going to get out of it. I'd rather watch you continue to do that. QuoteIt's an endless battle. Yes, the D vs R is an endless battle. If I posted an article on morality and the article kept stating things about Haggert viciously hating upon homosexuals, yet he is one, or it refered to the joke that Trent Lott is for calling for Clinton's head, yet Lott was locked in an extramarital affair while he was calling for Clinton's head. then I would be doing the same thing; disguising a hate R's thread behind some morality thread. Just call it what it is. Let's face it, the media is ALL liberal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #10 April 8, 2007 QuoteYes, the D vs R is an endless battle. If I posted an article on morality and the article kept stating things about Haggert viciously hating upon homosexuals, yet he is one, or it refered to the joke that Trent Lott is for calling for Clinton's head, yet Lott was locked in an extramarital affair while he was calling for Clinton's head. then I would be doing the same thing; disguising a hate R's thread behind some morality thread. Just call it what it is. I am just wondering how iPods went to Lott want Clintons head? I am looking for that brick now.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #11 April 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteYes, the D vs R is an endless battle. If I posted an article on morality and the article kept stating things about Haggert viciously hating upon homosexuals, yet he is one, or it refered to the joke that Trent Lott is for calling for Clinton's head, yet Lott was locked in an extramarital affair while he was calling for Clinton's head. then I would be doing the same thing; disguising a hate R's thread behind some morality thread. Just call it what it is. I am just wondering how iPods went to Lott want Clintons head? I am looking for that brick now. Good, then we are mutually perplexed; I wonder why a guy would post a I hate Michigan thread when he really means he hates Dems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #12 April 8, 2007 QuoteGood, then we are mutually perplexed; I wonder why a guy would post a I hate Michigan thread when he really means he hates Dems. If I wanted to say I hated DEMS I would come straight out and say it. I dont care who they are as long as they dont come up with bullshit ideas like this one. I will be the first to say that Govenor Blancherd (I think thats how you spell his name) The previous govenor of MI was the biggest piece of shit that state has seen in a while. The way he jacked the state police around just because they didnt kiss his ass was disgraceful. There are plenty of Repubs that have lost there way and forgot who voted for them and they are there for the people and not the lobyists.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #13 April 8, 2007 QuoteIf I wanted to say I hated DEMS I would come straight out and say it. I dont care who they are as long as they dont come up with bullshit ideas like this one. Uh, you imply the hell out of it w/o saying/writing it. That statement illustrates that. I just haven't read you slam great R ideas like Bush's plan to divorce employer-provided healthcare benefits from workers. QuoteThe way he jacked the state police around just because they didnt kiss his ass was disgraceful. There are plenty of Repubs that have lost there way and forgot who voted for them and they are there for the people and not the lobyists. Knowing your slant on politics, it is hard to believe that the dem part was incidental. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #14 April 8, 2007 The Detroit News, being a 'Republican' newspaper is prone to print such stories but, it would not have surprised me had those being written about were Republicans. Politicians are politicians, be they Republican or Democrat. We need to vote every one of them out of office and start over. Limit their terms of office to 2-yrs. and they are out. Keep the fresh blood coming and get rid of the lobbyists... hell, it 'could' work. JMO Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #15 April 8, 2007 QuoteThe Detroit News, being a 'Republican' newspaper I'm not from the Detroit area, I had no idea they were a republican paper considering Detroit is a fairly lefty city. A lot of unions and such. But thats besides the point. To stop the bickering about whether it is a R or D story or whatever I would like to discuss the story at hand and that how or why a politician would even come up with a stupid idea like this? What does he think buying every kid an iPod will accomplish? Does he want to people of Michigan to but the kids a computer also so they can download to the damn Ipod next? I just dont see where this idea is coming from and that it is anything besides a gross abuse of the tax dollars for the great state of Michigan.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #16 April 8, 2007 QuoteTo stop the bickering about whether it is a R or D story or whatever I would like to discuss the story at hand and that how or why a politician would even come up with a stupid idea like this? If this were a R initiating this I doubt you would care to post it. You'll deny, but I think we know teh tuth. QuoteWhat does he think buying every kid an iPod will accomplish? Does he want to people of Michigan to but the kids a computer also so they can download to the damn Ipod next? Next thing you know they'll propose furnishing these kids medical coverage..... jeeez. QuoteI just dont see where this idea is coming from and that it is anything besides a gross abuse of the tax dollars for the great state of Michigan. Let's buy a corporation some land or machinery instead. As for your rag that you referenced, it is more rightwing than even FOX: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_News Irony is that even as righty as they are, they were smart enough not to endorse Bush his 2nd time around. Editorially, the News is conservative. It has never endorsed a Democrat for president, and has only failed to endorse a Republican presidential candidate three times--twice during the Franklin D. Roosevelt era and once again during in 2004, when it refused to endorse George W. Bush for reelection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #17 April 8, 2007 You're absolutely correct, I think, to feel the way you do about buying every kid an i-pod. Is that to give kids something to do while their mom or dad is laid-off? It just doesn't make sense. Was the date on that story April 1st.? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #18 April 8, 2007 QuoteDems for ergonomics bill, R's against it.Has an ergonomic keyboard helped you type 'the' instead of 'teh'? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #19 April 8, 2007 QuoteWas the date on that story April 1st.? I wish it was.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #20 April 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteDems for ergonomics bill, R's against it.Has an ergonomic keyboard helped you type 'the' instead of 'teh'? Has illustrating simple typos helped misdirect your args? Ya see, when people have n arg, they initiate a grammar arg. If the opposite side of my args actually addressed my points I would painstakingly proofread them all for syntax and grammar. As it stands, the Repuklican Party is so easy to pick apart that my assertions don't honestly addressed. BTW, A) I don't use an erg keyboard, and B) the primary focus of the Erg Bill that your hero slashed was more about getting aid for injuries, altho it did also have provisions for preventative measures. What's more sad than the elite scum slashing the Erg Bill is the apathy deminstrated by working people. If they tried this in Europe the workers would strike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #21 April 8, 2007 QuoteB) the primary focus of the Erg Bill that your hero slashed was more about getting aid for injuries, altho it did also have provisions for preventative measures. How many millions are paid out to people who's main game is working the system because they are dishonest and lazy? Do you have a problem with those people? Believe me, for every new ergonomic devise that is created, there will be a new disability for those who were denied its use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #22 April 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteWas the date on that story April 1st.? I wish it was. Instead it was just another DEMOCRATIC move, right? Hmmm, why no answer the the rag you cited? ME: Irony is that even as righty as they are, they were smart enough not to endorse Bush his 2nd time around. Editorially, the News is conservative. It has never endorsed a Democrat for president, and has only failed to endorse a Republican presidential candidate three times--twice during the Franklin D. Roosevelt era and once again during in 2004, when it refused to endorse George W. Bush for reelection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #23 April 8, 2007 QuoteHow many millions are paid out to people who's main game is working the system because they are dishonest and lazy? Do you have a problem with those people? And that's teh neo-con approach, punish the whole to assure that you punish the evil. If a few innocents/needy get tied in with that, so the fuck what. It reminds me of Salem and the witchhunts. Capital punishment, welfare reductions, etc..... This, Ronald Reganesque paranoia that they are all out to get us, so we better give no one a thing, except for corporations, is so tired, yet the neo-cons of today still sing that tune. QuoteBelieve me, for every new ergonomic devise that is created, there will be a new disability for those who were denied its use. Because restless leg syndrome is a joke, so is carpel tunnel syndrome. I see, fuck em all, let Darwin rule take over. For a party pretending to be moralistic, the right sure is incompassionate; money over health. BTW, the erg bill was more to do with fasttracking medical attention for people, prevention was secondary. But as we all know, a small percentage of people would abuse the system so we must eliminate it from everyone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #24 April 8, 2007 QuoteInstead it was just another DEMOCRATIC move, right? Hmmm, why no answer the the rag you cited? ME: Irony is that even as righty as they are, they were smart enough not to endorse Bush his 2nd time around. I'll say it again I never wanted it to be a R VS D thread. You have turned it into on but have not yet once discussed the topic of this thread. Instead you keep trying to turn it into what side I am on or whatnot. If you must discuss what side I sit on I will start a new thread just for you and you can go at it.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #25 April 8, 2007 QuoteAs it stands, the Repuklican Party is so easy to pick apart that my assertions don't honestly addressed. And you think the Democratic side is any better? Come on, I gave you more credit than that.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
