Paper or .......?

[DaVinci 0]

I like it

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070328/ap_on_re_us/plastic_bag_ban

I'd like to know who the one that voted against it was and why?

[champu 1]

Well, there are two sides to every story.

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The Film and Bag Federation, a trade group within the Society of the Plastics Industry based in Washington, D.C., said the right choice between paper or plastic bags is clearly plastic.

Compared to paper grocery bags, plastic grocery bags consume 40 percent less energy, generate 80 percent less solid waste, produce 70 percent fewer atmospheric emissions, and release up to 94 percent fewer waterborne wastes, according to the federation.

Since both paper and plastic (HDPE) bags can be recycled in an economically viable manner, and pretty much any locale that has recycling centers will accept both, my vote would be plastic if you had to choose a disposable method.

Obviously, reusable canvas bags or something similar would be ideal, but that's not what this ban addresses. This reeks of crap "feel-good" legislation.

[narcimund 0]

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Since both paper and plastic (HDPE) bags can be recycled in an economically viable manner, and pretty much any locale that has recycling centers will accept both, my vote would be plastic if you had to choose a disposable method.

I wonder what the actual results of the recycling are in SF or worldwide. Here in Vancouver BC there's a strange abundance of plastic bags and no apparent recycling. If you buy three small items in a store, they'll automatically put each thing in a separate heavy-duty plastic bag with handles. It's almost impossible to come home from shopping for dinner without 8-10 of them.

I've tried saying to cashiers that I can just carry my single item out or put all three into a single bag. They fight me. They literally snap and say "No!" It's a Vancouver cultural oddity.

The bags all go in the garbage because the recyclers don't want 'em. I tried saving them but never found another use (unlike for paper bags which always have lots of second and third uses.)

And of course plastic will never decompose unlike paper which potentially will.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kelpdiver 2]

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The bags all go in the garbage because the recyclers don't want 'em. I tried saving them but never found another use (unlike for paper bags which always have lots of second and third uses.)

Quite a few people use them as small trash bags. My ex uses them for dog walks. Slightly oversized, but the official doggie bags are typically for the toy dogs.

The agreement from a couple years ago was that the supermarkets would recycle the plastics. How well I'd question - my attempts to return them en mass typically failed - the little receptacle they had was usually stuffed to the brim already.

Instead of working with business, the city continues its approach of dictation instead. Be it health care, min wage, sick leave, cars in Golden Gate Park, they're convinced they know more than anyone else. Not sure if the major will shoot this down as well.

In a city where it rains a lot and people often take the groceries on the bus, paper bags aren't the best choice. If this ban does happen, people will need to evolve a bit, start using those canvas bags. Just not very convenient if you want to shop on the way home from work.

[jakee 1,596]

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Compared to paper grocery bags, plastic grocery bags consume 40 percent less energy, generate 80 percent less solid waste, produce 70 percent fewer atmospheric emissions, and release up to 94 percent fewer waterborne wastes, according to the federation.

Well I would imagine that source to be pretty biased...

Also though, of all the benefits that they listed, aren't they outweighed by the fact that hardly anyone seems to recycle plastic bags properly? Tens of thousands of the things just get thrown into the countryside and they don't go away.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Ian84 0]

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Obviously, reusable canvas bags or something similar would be ideal, but that's not what this ban addresses. This reeks of crap "feel-good" legislation.

In Ireland there has ben a tax on plastic bags for the last 5 years or so. Rather than banning plastic bags, charging for each one is probably a better idea. Since the tax was introduced the vast majority of shoppers now bring their own canvas bags or boxes with them to do the shopping. Personally, I think its been one of the most well recieved taxes of all time

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[lawrocket 3]

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the ban was not reasonable because plastic bags made of corn byproducts are a relatively new, expensive and untested product.

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Craig Noble, a spokesman for the Natural Resources Defense Council, said it would be disappointing if grocers rejected the biodegradable plastic bag option, since more trees would have to be cut down if paper bag use increases.

Why is this guy bigoted against corn? Oh, more poor trees (which are farmed nowadays) might face the horror of harvest if people don't opt for killing more corn.

This guy is freaking ridiculous.

As far as banning the plastic bag - to prevent littering of the sea and streets - why not fine the hell out of litterers?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[jcd11235 0]

Apparently, only certain types (petro based) of plastic bags have been prohibited. (Bio-)Plastic bags that are typical in any grocery store I have been in during the past 15+ years are not part of the ban.

From the linked article:

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The law, approved 10-1, requires large markets and drug stores to offer customers bags made of paper that can be recycled, plastic that breaks down easily enough to be made into compost, or reusable cloth.

San Francisco supervisors and supporters said that by banning the petroleum-based sacks, blamed for littering streets and choking marine life, the measure would go a long way toward helping the city earn its green stripes.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Andy9o8 2]

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This reeks of crap "feel-good" legislation.

Yeah! Phasing out plastic bags is another pinhead liberal conspiracy to attack God, just like "global warming" is. Clearly, Nancy Pelosi and Al Gore an in bed with each other. (Ew.) If the legislation feels good, there must be Communism behind it.
Personally, I put all my plastic bags in a lockbox.

[billvon 3,120]

>I tried saving them but never found another use (unlike for paper bags
> which always have lots of second and third uses.)

I use them to carry lunch, and for car trash bags. Fortunately it doesn't take as much argument to get checkout people to let me use my panniers instead of plastic bags, so we don't end up with as many.

[DaVinci 0]

It is only against the petrolium based bags. I have no issue with requiring stores to use easier to recycle bags.

[champu 1]

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Well I would imagine that source to be pretty biased...

Oh absolutely, they practically call themselves "The Federation Intent on Convincing You Plastic Bags are Made of Laughter and Rainbows," I was just pointing out there were two sides to the story.

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Yeah! Phasing out plastic bags is another pinhead liberal conspiracy to attack God, just like "global warming" is. Clearly, Nancy Pelosi and Al Gore an in bed with each other. (Ew.) If the legislation feels good, there must be Communism behind it.
Personally, I put all my plastic bags in a lockbox.

I called it "crap, feel good legislation," because it addresses a problem in a popular manner, and not necessarily the best manner. I never said I didn't think there was a problem. I know what litter looks like, I've driven on freeways in Riverside County. I kinda like the idea that Ian mentioned is used in Ireland. Charge a quarter a bag (paper or plastic) and see what starts happening.

[kelpdiver 2]

The actual proposal for SF from a couple years ago was 17cents per bag. The compromise was a recycling effort that the board claims the supermarkets didn't make good on.