Information Warfare, RHIFW-Style

[Guest]

From the Strategy Page, and it's interesting reading - mh

It Doesn't Get Any Better Than This
March 22, 2007: Islamic terrorists are encouraging their supporters, who can write in English, to get on American web sites and pretend to be friends or family members of American soldiers or marines. The "media jihadis" are instructed to tell stories in line with the anti-war tone of American and European media. Things like soldiers committing suicide because they were forced to take part in atrocities in Iraq. Or wounded soldiers suffering, or killing themselves, because of the poor care and abuse they have received from the army. The media jihadis are told to make it sound like they are simply passing on what a soldier said, not to pretend to be a soldier or marine. Media jihadis are told not to discuss anything from the Moslems side, and Moslems should only be referred to as innocent victims. Never mention the Sunni-Shia conflict or Islamic terrorism. Posters should not stick around for discussions, lest they be found out. Care should be taken to select screen names similar to other English speaking posters. Keep messages simple, so as not to betray the fact that you are not a native English speaker.

This is a clever strategy, and whoever started posting it openly on Arab language web sites, demonstrated a keen understanding of how the media works in the West. Bad news is more believable, and stories like this are already spread by the mass media. On some American anti-war sites, American posters are already inventing such stories. Some will be believed. That's the way the world works.

This strategy is already being executed by American media is very subtle ways. For example, most American media stories about the suffering of Iraqi civilians leaves out the fact that most of these victims are Sunnis, or Shia who have been attacked by Sunni terrorists. Outside of Sunni and partly Sunni areas, where 70 percent of the population lives, economic conditions are much better, and there is little violence. But by concentrating on the Sunnis, you get an anti-war human interest story, without revealing that you are examining the self-inflicted tribulations of the people who have caused all the problems in the first place. Information War doesn't get any better than that.

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[quade 4]

Prove any of this and I'll give ya a dollar.

What this article does is allows anyone that buys into its philosophy the excuse to suspect any criticism of the war as being made by terrorists.

THAT is how information warfare is conducted. Make any and all differing points of view associated with the enemy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Guest]

People on this forum (including billvon) have been denying that Americans are mistreating GIs returning from Iraq, but I've compiled LOTS of "BABY KILLER!" incidents.

I have no doubt that a lot of these are motivated by the utter bullshit that populates the leftist websites.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[quade 4]

Mark, if you can find me ONE credible incident of a returning soldier being abused by anyone other than our own government and their lack of funding for their health and well being . . . I'd appreciate it.

The most anti-war people I know, the most vehemently opposed people to the war, still have a deep respect for the troops. Virtually NOBODY that I'm aware of blames the troops for the situation. NONE. Zip. Zero. Ziltch. I have NEVER heard of ANYONE calling a returning vet a "baby killer".

I do hold out the possibility that in a country of 300 million people, there may in fact be an extreme case of total assholishness out there, someone that would, but there simply does not exist any sort of resentment by the "liberal left" masses toward the troops. None.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Guest]

Veteran gets rude welcome on Bainbridge (Seattle PI, Friday, July 9, 2004)

Think about the Seattle area -- Bainbridge Island to be exact -- and you think scenic views and liberal-minded tolerance.

At least the killer views are still there.

The bucolic island's deep reputation for civility got a gut check this week during the annual Grand Old Fourth of July celebration.

That's when Jason Gilson, a 23-year-old military veteran who served in Iraq, marched in the local event. He wore his medals with pride and carried a sign that said "Veterans for Bush."

Walking the parade route with his mom, younger siblings and politically conservative friends, Jason heard words from the crowd that felt like a thousand daggers to the heart.

"Baby killer!"

"Murderer!"

"Boooo!"

To understand why the reaction of strangers hurt so much, you must read what the young man had written in a letter from Iraq before he was disabled in an ambush:

"I really miss being in the states. Some of the American public have no idea how much freedom costs and who the people are that pay that awful price. I think sometimes people just see us as nameless and faceless and not really as humans. ... A good portion of us are actually scared that when we come home, for those of us who make it back, that there will be protesters waiting for us and that is scary."

On the Fourth, Jason faced his worst fear.

It was such a public humiliation -- home front insult after battlefield injury.

It really shouldn't have happened for two principal reasons.

Reason No. 1? History.

The past informs us that the men and women who fight our wars are not just following orders.

They are risking life and limb.

When they return from the battlefield they should be embraced regardless of the public popularity about the conflict, regardless of the politics.

Have we so quickly forgotten the painful lessons of Vietnam?

Frederick Scheffler, whose daughter and son-in-law marched with Jason on Sunday, hasn't.

Scheffler -- an Army veteran of two tours in Southeast Asia -- was shot in the leg during that long-ago conflict.

He came home with a cane, only to discover the American public was either indifferent to his sacrifice or downright hostile.

"I didn't think in this day and age combat veterans would be treated in this manner," Scheffler, 60, tells me, reflecting on Jason. "I saw it happen to veterans in Vietnam. I'm not going to let it happen today, not to these kids."

Reason No. 2? The rules.

The Bainbridge Island Chamber of Commerce, which put on the community celebration, permits freedom of expression at the event but asks that parade announcers not act in a manner that is partisan or prejudicial.

Jason's mother, Tamar, says a female parade announcer locked eyes on her son who was walking behind a pro-Republican group called Women in Red, White and Blue. The group supports President Bush and the troops in the fight against terrorism.

According to Tamar, the female announcer sarcastically asked Jason: "And what exactly are you a veteran of?"

The perceived mocking, the mother adds, set off some people in the crowd, loosing a flood of negative comments, "like a wave... a mob-style degrading."

Kevin Dwyer, executive director of the Chamber of Commerce, spoke with the announcer after the allegations reached him this week.

He says the woman denies using sarcasm; she just wanted to know which war Jason was a veteran of so that she could "honor him" in public.

"It wasn't her intention to incite anything -- that's what she told me," Dwyer said. "But if she acted out of school, that's not what we're about."

Dwyer added: "I believe (Jason's) mom when she said her son was called 'a murderer.' But I'm sure it wasn't so much directed at the kid as it was the president. A soldier with a sign represents that."

The female announcer told Dwyer that some in the Bush-Cheney contingent in the parade seemed "militant."

And so, battle lines are drawn.

From the outside looking in, the fuel for this conflict seems obvious.

The left-leaning island hosted a group of people who support Bush's controversial war. (On the same parade route, people bearing pro-Kerry signs were cheered and applauded for, among other things, tooling around in an environmentally responsible car.)

Against such a roiling backdrop, an unfortunate tone of voice or the wording on a sign can spark, well, something -- something unconscionable it appears.

But less obvious factors are undoubtedly at work here, too.

The female announcer at the parade had a father who fought for America in a previous U.S. conflict. He never made it back home.

Jason's mother -- unbeknownst to many observers along the parade route -- is a tireless activist behind the pro-troops movement in the Puget Sound region.

Such a combo on a day of red, white and blue can only lead to fireworks -- snap, crackle and popping off during what locals call the "best small-town parade in America."

--------------------------------------------------------
KIRO-7 Report:

The Pierce County Sheriff's Department is searching for five people who allegedly attacked a uniformed National Guardsmen walking along 138th Street in Parkland Tuesday afternoon.
The soldier was walking to a convenience store when a sport utility vehicle pulled up alongside him and the driver asked if he was in the military and if he had been in any action.

The driver then got out of the vehicle, displayed a gun and shouted insults at the victim. Four other suspects exited the vehicle and knocked the soldier down, punching and kicking him.

“And during the assault the suspects called him a baby killer. At that point they got into the car and drove off and left him on the side of the road,” Detective Ed Troyer with the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News.
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You'll dismiss these as isolated incidents, no doubt. I however have no doubt that they were incited by utter lies and garbage posted on leftist hate-sites.

"We respect the troops...when they shoot their officers." - Remember that one?

The left can't hide behind the "we support the troops" smokescreen anymore.

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NY Post:
"Back on Activities Day, Dols didn't just lecture me on my stupidity in serving our nation; she also yelled that I was a baby killer. For a Marine, being called a killer is almost flattering - but for months Dols and her friends had been disrupting pretty much every event I attended."

Ventura County Star:

June 06, 2006 - Baby Killers

Last Sunday I was called a "Baby Killer" for the first time.
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Quade, you will notice that I have quoted commerical news sources (like the ultra-liberal Seattle PI) as opposed to worldnetdaily or other web-based sources.

LAST WEEKEND: Protester Spits on GI in DC (WA Post video)

I've got HUNDREDS more.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[IanHarrop 43]

I love this line "leaves out the fact that most of these victims are Sunnis, or Shia who have been attacked by Sunni terrorists. "

So the bad guys are either Sunnis or Shia.... well duhh!!!

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[jenfly00 0]

It Doesn't Get Any Better Than This
March 24, 2007: Neo cons are encouraging their supporters, who can write, to get on American web sites and pretend to be friends or family members of American soldiers or marines. The "media patriots" are instructed to tell stories in line with Americans not supporting American troops. Things like soldiers being called "baby killers" and 'murderers".

The media patriots are instructed to make it sound like they are simply passing on what they have heard passed on from returning soldiers or read in the media. They are also instructed to keep messages simple, so as not to betray the are semi-illiterate dolts blindly following their leaders.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Guest]

Quote

It Doesn't Get Any Better Than This
March 24, 2007: Neo cons are encouraging their supporters, who can write, to get on American web sites and pretend to be friends or family members of American soldiers or marines. The "media patriots" are instructed to tell stories in line with Americans not supporting American troops. Things like soldiers being called "baby killers" and 'murderers".

The media patriots are instructed to make it sound like they are simply passing on what they have heard passed on from returning soldiers or read in the media. They are also instructed to keep messages simple, so as not to betray the are semi-illiterate dolts blindly following their leaders.

NONE of the sources above are from blogs - they're ALL from the mainstream media. It therefore seems silly to imply that the spitting incident last weekend in DC was set up. After all, everybody knows that the mainstream media aren't biased, right?

I rest my case.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Andrewwhyte 1]

The lessons from history are stark. Win the war, you're a hero. Lose the war you can expect your own to turn on you.
So now the question, is the coalition losing the war? Yes they are. Bush says they can win if people are patient; he may or may not be right. The problem is that when he started the war the terms of victory were oversold to the public. Now announcing new goalposts is the only thing W can do, but less and less of the public are buying it. If the US troops pull out and a stable, moderately respectful of human rights, western friendly regime (democratic optional) is not in place, The US will have lost another war.

[skycop 0]

When I got back in 2002 after supporting the GWOT, I went to a festival in downtown Cincinnati wearing my desert floppy hat. There were some protesters decrying police brutality because of a previous incident. They saw my hat and asked if I was in the military and had been overseas, when I said yes they started yelling "baby killer" and pointing. I just laughed and told them I was a cop also, and they could kiss my ass with a smile.
They really just didn't have a clue, it was kinda sad really.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[PhreeZone 20]

Quote

NONE of the sources above are from blogs - they're ALL from the mainstream media. It therefore seems silly to imply that the spitting incident last weekend in DC was set up. After all, everybody knows that the mainstream media aren't biased, right?

I rest my case.

mh

Sorry, this one is a blog.
http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/vcs/elias/archives/2006/06/baby_killers.html

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Guest]

My bad. Got in a hurry.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

Quote

The lessons from history are stark. Win the war, you're a hero. Lose the war you can expect your own to turn on you.
So now the question, is the coalition losing the war? Yes they are. Bush says they can win if people are patient; he may or may not be right. The problem is that when he started the war the terms of victory were oversold to the public. Now announcing new goalposts is the only thing W can do, but less and less of the public are buying it. If the US troops pull out and a stable, moderately respectful of human rights, western friendly regime (democratic optional) is not in place, The US will have lost another war.

The lessons from the history of counterinsurgency are stark as well. Everybody knows the US lost in Vietnam, right?

The British fought communists for 12 years in Malaya (Malayan Emergency, 1948-1960), but they finally won, because they understood the nature of the kind of war they were fighting, and had the patience to see it through.

The people in the US have very short attention spans and (historically) don't have that kind of patience. Even the Civil War and WW2 were protested against and objected to.

If the US "loses" anything, it will be patience. The RHIFWs know this, which is why they're counting on us to get into our helicopters and fly away ala Saigon and Somalia, allowing them to take over and declare victory against the Great Satan (tm).

In any war of attrition, victory goes to the combatant who is the most patient. That's why Israel is still around after 60 years.

mh

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Guest]

Bump.

I'm still waiting for the lefties on this forum to deny this is happening.

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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[SkyDekker 1,465]

For some one to deny it, you would first have to prove that it is happening. I would think that most looked at your source and thought: nice story, I think I read about that in the grocery check out lane too.

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Bump.

I'm still waiting for the lefties on this forum to deny this is happening.

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I'm confident your claims are every bit as credible as these claims were:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/shell.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/marathon.asp
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/budweiser.asp

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Zipp0 1]

Quote

When I got back in 2002 after supporting the GWOT, I went to a festival in downtown Cincinnati wearing my desert floppy hat. There were some protesters decrying police brutality because of a previous incident. They saw my hat and asked if I was in the military and had been overseas, when I said yes they started yelling "baby killer" and pointing. I just laughed and told them I was a cop also, and they could kiss my ass with a smile.
They really just didn't have a clue, it was kinda sad really.

You should have said "I'm also a hippy killer, asshole". I am for getting out of Iraq, but I would never tolerate that BS. I had the pleasure of returing from Gulf War I on the USS JFK, to the biggest victory homecoming since WWI. It's really unfortunate that our troops now are denied that kind of closure. Shit, I had the town fire company show up wanting to parade me around town with the sirens blaring like Santa Clause.

I always swore that if someone spit on me or called me a 'baby killer', there would be a fight.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[skycop 0]

Nah, it wasn't that big of a deal. They want that violent reaction, and I wasn't going to give it to them. The look on their face when I laughed was enough for me.
The funny thing is, one of the guys in this group was shot and killed by another "activist" a couple of years later infront of city hall. These goofs could'nt get along with each other, so I wasn't going to give them the time of day.

The overwhelming response I received when I got back was very positive.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[billvon 3,132]

>On some American anti-war sites, American posters are already
>inventing such stories. Some will be believed. That's the way the world
>works.

Sounds like they're taking a lesson from the US government! Smart guys, those terrorists (unfortunately.)

[Zipp0 1]

I would have rounded up my buds and went down there for a little skull cracking.

Afterwards, we would have had our laugh.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

Bump.

I'm still waiting for the lefties on this forum to deny this is happening.

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I would, but I'm too busy reading about the Office of Strategic Influence, the Office of Global Communications, the Counter-information team, fake news releases about Medicare and No Child Left Behind, and listening to Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly on the radio, Tony Snow, Bush, Gonzales, Cheney, Novak and Kristol on the TV, reading the Washington Times...............

[dorbie 0]

Quote

>On some American anti-war sites, American posters are already
>inventing such stories. Some will be believed. That's the way the world
>works.

Sounds like they're taking a lesson from the US government! Smart guys, those terrorists (unfortunately.)

You're really dredging new depths recently Bill. Can you sink any lower? How much moral support for the enemy is too much for you?

[billvon 3,132]

>You're really dredging new depths recently Bill. Can you sink any lower?
>How much moral support for the enemy is too much for you?

"If you disagree with the war/the president you must:
support the enemy
hate the troops
want the terrorists to win"

It's an oldie, and used to be a goodie, but it's been so overused by so many fools that people are starting to look at the person making the claim as idiots lately.

If telling the truth supports the enemy, then we have met the enemy - and he is us.

[dorbie 0]

That's not what I said and that's not merely what you were doing. But nice attempt to deflect.

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

Bump.

I'm still waiting for the lefties on this forum to deny this is happening.

.

I'm confident your claims are every bit as credible as these claims were:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/shell.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/marathon.asp
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/budweiser.asp

Back at ya:

St Xavier Professor Calls USAF Cadets "Baby Killers" (Snopes)

Follow-Up Column by Seattle PI on "Apology" to GI called "Baby Killer"

I've seen left-coast liberal "tolerance" myself, up-close and personal, though nowhere near what this young man experienced.

Once again, I reiterate that these stories (with the exception of one that was pointed out by another poster to the thread) are verifiable and from mainstream sources. Denial will get you nowhere.

mh
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"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."