Thoughts On Political Correctness and Freedom

[rushmc 23]

Interesting Acrticel

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/22/weu22.xml

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

Seems to me that the article isn't talking about "political correctness" as we speak of it in the U.S., but rather what we would call our First Amendment rights.

The article isn't talking about calling a trash collector a Sanitary Engineer, but rather whether or not it's proper to allow such things as political cartoons of the prophet Mohammed.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

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Seems to me that the article isn't talking about "political correctness" as we speak of it in the U.S., but rather what we would call our First Amendment rights.

The article isn't talking about calling a trash collector a Sanitary Engineer, but rather whether or not it's proper to allow such things as political cartoons of the prophet Mohammed.

I agree on your First Amendment call. Not sure I agree with the narrower point you make but it is a good one.

Do you think that some of the politcal correctness issues affect first amendment rights here too?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gene03 0]

I believe the Politically Correct/Perpetually Offended (PC/PO) movement is more properly called "Social Engineering?

“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him.

Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966)

[rushmc 23]

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I believe the Politically Correct/Perpetually Offended (PC/PO) movement is more properly called "Social Engineering?

If I understand what you are saying correctly............


........I agree

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[lawrocket 3]

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But Mr Barroso backs the right to offend.

"We have to show respect for all communities but the fundamental right of freedom of expression is for me more important than other collective rights," he says.

Very well stated.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

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But Mr Barroso backs the right to offend.

"We have to show respect for all communities but the fundamental right of freedom of expression is for me more important than other collective rights," he says.

Very well stated.

I expected a bit more discussion on this point. Curious

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[funjumper101 15]

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But Mr Barroso backs the right to offend.

"We have to show respect for all communities but the fundamental right of freedom of expression is for me more important than other collective rights," he says.

Very well stated.

I expected a bit more discussion on this point. Curious

Not much to discuss, for skydivers.
I can't think of many that I have come across that were in favor of the PC BS.

[rushmc 23]

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But Mr Barroso backs the right to offend.

"We have to show respect for all communities but the fundamental right of freedom of expression is for me more important than other collective rights," he says.

Very well stated.

I expected a bit more discussion on this point. Curious

Not much to discuss, for skydivers.
I can't think of many that I have come across that were in favor of the PC BS.

True

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

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I expected a bit more discussion on this point. Curious

I think it might be because, at least subconsiouly, we all still understand what each other is talking about even if we use euphemisims and politically correct speech, we still (at least the people with average or higher intelligence) still know exactly what you're talking about. So, it's not that your freedom to express and opinion or idea is being abridged at all; only your freedom of vocabulary and even then it's only abridged voluntarily to one's own benefit.

Politically correct speech actually does, to a degree, deflate some of the negative feelings that are otherwise incited by the use of some words that have negative connotations to certain groups.

Some groups of people simply enrage over the use of otherwise perfectly normal words, because in their culture those words have become "code words" for something that remind them something atrocious.

I would like to think that by respecting people's feelings when expressing certain ideas, you help the process rather than hurt it.

A good example would (and I know you're going to hate this one which is -exactly- why I'm using it) is President Bush's use of the term "crusade" in the build-up and early stages of the Iraq war. To his consituents it had a positive connotation of a righteous warrior going off to fight the forces of evil. To people in the middle east, it damn near incited riots (in fact, l think it actually did). His use of the language was not helpful. Had his script writers been a little more sensitive to worldwide politically correct speech, they probably could have HELPED the situation rather than hurt it. He still would have been able to express his ideas, but without it HURTING his cause.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lawrocket 3]

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But Mr Barroso backs the right to offend.

"We have to show respect for all communities but the fundamental right of freedom of expression is for me more important than other collective rights," he says.

Very well stated.

I expected a bit more discussion on this point. Curious

Ever know anybody who is offended at any suggestion of criticism? There are loads of people out there who simply get offended and drown out viewpoints that are not consistent with their own viewpoints.

Some people out there take this to heart and decide that they will not do or say anything that may be construed as offensive. Thus, they go through their life not wanting to upset anybody.

The problem with the people who seek not to offend is that they preclude themselves from providing feedback to people who could use it. Bill Cosby got in trouble three years ago for his statement that lower economic class blacks were not holding up their end of the deal resulting from Brown v. Board of Education.

Bill Cosby's comments about picking up their pants and speakign English were sharp, pointed and harsh. Bill Cosby provided the unspeakable feedback. Think about "The emperor has no clothes." It took the person who didn't know or didn't care that it was inappropriate to comment that said what needed to be said.

We have the right to offend. It should always be there. Countless people are offended by any negative feedback, but it doesn't mean that it should not be given.

As an aside, it's why I like this forum so much. So many of my subjective feelings and beliefs have been shown to be just that - subjective feelings and beliefs. Thanks to the feedback provided by others, I've seen numerous times how these subjective feelings and experiences are not necessarily reflective of objective reality.

I am not always right. Nobody (not even Lucky) is always wrong.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rushmc 23]

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But Mr Barroso backs the right to offend.

"We have to show respect for all communities but the fundamental right of freedom of expression is for me more important than other collective rights," he says.

Very well stated.

I expected a bit more discussion on this point. Curious

Ever know anybody who is offended at any suggestion of criticism? There are loads of people out there who simply get offended and drown out viewpoints that are not consistent with their own viewpoints.

Some people out there take this to heart and decide that they will not do or say anything that may be construed as offensive. Thus, they go through their life not wanting to upset anybody.

The problem with the people who seek not to offend is that they preclude themselves from providing feedback to people who could use it. Bill Cosby got in trouble three years ago for his statement that lower economic class blacks were not holding up their end of the deal resulting from Brown v. Board of Education.

Bill Cosby's comments about picking up their pants and speakign English were sharp, pointed and harsh. Bill Cosby provided the unspeakable feedback. Think about "The emperor has no clothes." It took the person who didn't know or didn't care that it was inappropriate to comment that said what needed to be said.

We have the right to offend. It should always be there. Countless people are offended by any negative feedback, but it doesn't mean that it should not be given.

As an aside, it's why I like this forum so much. So many of my subjective feelings and beliefs have been shown to be just that - subjective feelings and beliefs. Thanks to the feedback provided by others, I've seen numerous times how these subjective feelings and experiences are not necessarily reflective of objective reality.

I am not always right. Nobody (not even Lucky) is always wrong.

What a great post to end my day at work. Very well stated and, I even agreed with Lucky, ah, once but, ah, I don't remember what it was

Anyway, points well give and well taken. Thanks

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln