Secular Progressive or not?

[freeflir29 0]

So I see PLENTY of SP jargon and thinking on here. Anyone want to admit being a fan of George Lakoff, George Soros, et al? I'm not a complete conservative but these people are NUTS and quite frankly dangerous.

[jakee 1,575]

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So I see PLENTY of SP jargon and thinking on here. Anyone want to admit being a fan of George Lakoff, George Soros, et al? I'm not a complete conservative but these people are NUTS and quite frankly dangerous.

I've got no idea what you are talking about.

On the face of it, being secular is a good thing and being progressive is often a good thing - do these two words take on different meaning when put together? What do the Georges say and why are they dangerous?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JohnnyD 0]

Interesting. Had to look it up because I'd never heard of it before and: "No such organization exists".

Just a guess, but I think if you use some hot-button terms like fascist and moral erosion and go on to say that people who don't agree with you are trying to legislate values (which is actually what you are doing), you will probably sell a lot more books than by saying something along the lines of: we should strive to understand each other and have open and honest discourse that allows us to easily reach solutions in regards to our differences.

[freeflir29 0]

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I've got no idea what you are talking about.

Do some reading. You can see both sides by reading Bill O'Reilly's book "Culture Warrior" and George Lakoff's book "Don't Think of an Elephant." I find secular progressives dangerous in so many ways. Of course.......I'm not near as conservative as Bill O'Reilly either. At least he isn't dangerous.

[JohnnyD 0]

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I'm not near as conservative as Bill O'Reilly either. At least he isn't dangerous.

He advocates overturning Roe v. Wade (someone will correct me with lightning speed if I'm wrong here). I would consider that dangerous.
On the other side of the coin, that George person may advocate gun control to the extreme. I would consider that dangerous.
Of course, listening to crazies argue is certainly going to sell a lot more books than listening to reasonable poeple debate.

[jakee 1,575]

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You can see both sides by reading Bill O'Reilly's book "Culture Warrior" and George Lakoff's book "Don't Think of an Elephant."

That might take me a while, and the discussion will probably be dead by the time I get back to it

What exactly is it about being secular and progressive that is actually dangerous?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,090]

In terms of overall outlook, I'm definitely progressive, and in terms of my politics, I'm a lot more secular than religious. But then again that would describe a lot of people here, so I'm not sure what all the hooha is about.

[kelpdiver 2]

is this the new buzzword to replace (dirty) liberal or politically correct?

When a term is used to brush an opposing viewpoint with disdain, yet with no argument to back it up, it does nothing but reflect badly on the speaker.

[narcimund 0]

I have no idea what you the OP is talking about (and apparently nobody else does either) so I went to the source of all knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_Warrior

According to this, nobody calls themselves "secular progressives." It's apparently a term coined by Bill O'Reilly to bind a group of people (George Soros, Al Franken, George Lakaff, and the ACLU) who otherwise don't seem to be calling themselves anything in particular.

O'Reilly doesn't seem to like them very much.

Interestingly, Wikipedia also notes:

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Bill O'Reilly was recently voted the biggest cunt in the USA in a nationwide poll.

which addresses both the objectivity of the article and also harkens back to the misogyny conversations here over the last week or two. How 'bout that!

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[billvon 3,090]

Hmm. To use their definition:

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"secular-progressives" are individuals who are not content with the current state of affairs in the United States.
---------

I'm not completely content. We need better leadership in Washington on foreign policy (specifically in our wars.) We need better protection of our borders. We need a more sane healthcare policy, and we need to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels, especially imported fossil fuels.

If "not content with the current state of affairs in the United States" is a sufficient definition, then 99% of the people in the US are secular progressives.

>The redistribution of wealth via systems such as the progressive income
>tax, which disproportionately tax the wealthiest members of society

I'm definitely for the sort of progressive tax scheme we have now, so that fits.

>A decrease in school discipline in order to promote "their so-called liberties"

Against that.

>An increase in hostility towards religious values and their expression
>(accomplished through the support of legal organizations in their efforts
>to remove religious icons from publicly-owned spaces)

Against that. I am in favor of a DECREASE in hostility on both sides.

>The implementation of a one-world approach to foreign relations by
>promoting a foreign policy in which American interests are not
>necessarily considered first

Our foreign policy should consider other nation's interests but put ours first. We should also support the UN as the primary means of conflict resolution as a way to reduce war.

>The furtherance of an emotion-based society that places individual
>self-expression and rights over self-sacrifice and adult responsibility

Against that. _All_ those things should be supported.

So I guess I'm not much of a secular progressive after all.

[Andy9o8 2]

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Interestingly, Wikipedia also notes:

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Bill O'Reilly was recently voted the biggest cunt in the USA in a nationwide poll.

Actually, there's a principle in defamation law:
"Truth is an absolute defense"

[jarrodh 0]

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So I see PLENTY of SP jargon and thinking on here. Anyone want to admit being a fan of George Lakoff, George Soros, et al? I'm not a complete conservative but these people are NUTS and quite frankly dangerous.

Whats dangerous about them?

I consider myself secular for damn sure and progressive under either of these definintions:

1.progressive: making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods.

2.progressive: favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters

So yeah I guess I am a secular progressive.

2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!

[narcimund 0]

Since the name of this club refers to otherwise barely connected (or maybe unconnected) people, and the very existence of a name is so fascinating and powerful, I thought I'd try the same thing.

I hereby announce the creation of a club called Righteous Protectorate. It includes um... George Bush, Billy Graham, Margaret Thatcher, Osama Bin Ladin, Adolf Hitler, the Westboro Baptist Church, and um ... Bill O'Reilly. (I should admit I don't really know who Bill O'Reilly is but I gather he's an angry person who talks on television.)

So does anyone else agree with me that the Righteous Protectorate is dangerous? Hoo boy! Dangerous dangerous dangerous. Yup.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[nathaniel 0]

As opposed to religious fundamentalist?

Where do I sign up!

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[jarrodh 0]

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.. Bill O'Reilly. (I should admit I don't really know who Bill O'Reilly is but I gather he's an angry person who talks on television.)

Youve never heard of Bill OReilly? You should youtube him. He has some interesting stuff to say. I often disagree with him but I enjoy watching his show.

I wouldnt classify Bush and O'Reilly with Hitler. Theres hardly a connection.

2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!

[JohnnyD 0]

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... but I enjoy watching his show...

That pretty much says it all.

[narcimund 0]

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Youve never heard of Bill OReilly? You should youtube him. He has some interesting stuff to say. I often disagree with him but I enjoy watching his show.

I've HEARD of him (here in Speaker's Corner mostly.) I don't know what he looks like or what he portrays on tv. I gather he's a bit of a ham.

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I wouldnt classify Bush and O'Reilly with Hitler. Theres hardly a connection.

You misunderstand. There certainly is a connection. I made one up. That makes it real. Oh, did I mention the Righteous Protectorate also includes Adam Weishaupt, Adam Selene, Adam Ant, and Lassie?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[Andy9o8 2]

You know why O'Reilly calls them "secular progressives"? Because the moniker "godless America haters" flopped, so they're hauling out a new one for a little product placement research.

[freeflir29 0]

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There certainly is a connection. I made one up.

That seems to be the most common tactic of the left.


Interesting enough..........I just saw on Fox that George Soros bought $62 MILLION in Halliburton stock.

[freeflir29 0]

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Because the moniker "godless America haters" flopped

Sometimes the public has a hard time swallowing the truth.

[narcimund 0]

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That seems to be the most common tactic of the left.

Am I on the left?

Saying so seems to be a common tactic of the right.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[freeflir29 0]

IIRC............you are a gay white male. I don't know of any right wing gay organizations. So I am guessing..........yes you are on the left. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[narcimund 0]

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IIRC............you are a gay white male. I don't know of any right wing gay organizations. So I am guessing..........yes you are on the left. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have no idea if there are gay right wing organizations. I don't belong to any.

I also don't belong to any gay left wing organizations.

I don't belong to any organizations at all.

Now how will you stereotype me?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[kelpdiver 2]

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That seems to be the most common tactic of the left.

Am I on the left?

Saying so seems to be a common tactic of the right.

common to the leftists here, too. Even when obviously false.

[freeflir29 0]

Maybe you are the first right wing gay guy in America. Congratulations.