Michael Moore painted with his own brush

[willard 0]

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it is a fact that rats and cockraoches scatter and run when a light is shined on them. Michael Moore easily fits in either catagory.

How dare you compare Michael Moore to rats and cockroaches. The hypocrisy of rats and cockroaches only goes so far. Show them at least some rspect.

[kelpdiver 2]

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the very first thing i see when i google 'NRA KKK'

http://www.nra-kkk.org/

Personally i find that quite disturbing.
...
As i said I was Just poking. I don't think all gun owners are racist, but I think it is a huge problem that anyone feels the need to carry a gun.

It's much easier to prove that gun controllers are racists.

The NRA wants to deny guns to all criminals.

The Brady people want to and have been fairly successful at banning cheap guns, aka junk guns, aka niggertown specials.

The NRA wants anyone with a clean record to be able to obtain a CCW permit.

The Brady people want to prevent everyone from such a right...with the exception of their own Senators and actresses who really do need them.

The Brady people want to make guns, bullets, and new licenses as expensive as possible to discourage ownership. This of course translates into a tax that the poor can't pay, and it's trivial to show that the effect of this is greater on minorities. Just like the banned poll taxes.

[waltappel 1]

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As i said I was Just poking. I don't think all gun owners are racist, but I think it is a huge problem that anyone feels the need to carry a gun.

Maybe I'm thinking "outside of the box" here, but it seems to me that getting rid of violent criminals rather than guns would make more sense.

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the second ammendment is the problem, unfortunately you cant take that away and you cant change the fact there are millions of guns in incorrect hands, and now you all feel the need to have one to be safe,

Problem?!!!!! The second amendment is a problem?!!!! For who?

Well maybe you'd feel better if murders were all conducted with baseball bats, knives, or the like, but I don't think the tools used for murder are as significant as the people doing the killing.

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How many of you have actually pointed a gun and used it in self defence?

Not me, at least not yet, but I'd rather have a gun and not need it than not have a gun and need it really bad.

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would that actually be helping your safety or making things more dangerous?

think about it!

I have no clue what you are asking here, but I'm ok with that because I'm not sure that you do either.

Walt (and yes, I'm a long-time NRA member; not a KKK member, though)

[rhys 0]

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How did this become another gun thread?

I poked at you gun fans by making innuendoes from the ‘bowling for columbine’ movie that 'Michael Moore' produced.

All of a sudden you are all on the defensive and start say things like

"It’s not the guns its the people behind them"

"The NRA wants to make it illegal for criminals to own a gun"
that is the funniest one.
Can criminals actually legally own a gun at the moment?

If criminals can own a gun then you have some real problems in your country (oh yeah we already established that)

Now tell me one thing, steering the conversation back to its original point;

The bank that was giving a rifle away to those that opened a bank account in the 'bowling for columbine' movie.

Was that a hoax? I can't quite work that out but if it was not a Hoax then that point alone says the entire movie needed to say.

It_is_too_late to stop the problem that the USA faces so I guess the USA needs something like the NRA. But an organisation that aims at reducing the number of guns rather than increasing them.

I would imagine in the USA guns are no unlike cell phones, from some of the conversations I have read in these very forums by some of you reading this post, guns can be a fashion accessory, they get outdated and people want the shiny one that fires more rounds faster. In turn they get outdated and are sold cheaply and end up in stockpiles!!!!

That is a serious problem. There are too many guns in the USA you cannot deny that?

This is very disturbing for me as I have only ever seen a hand gun on a police officer(in other countries) and in a gun store.

In the USA you can go to K mart and buy Ammo?????

If you don't see that as a problem, then you have problems or are purely complacent with gun control and the safety of your communities.

IMO this is all because of the second amendment.

I will definitely visit the states but I’m damned if I would want to live there. if i hear a gunshot in the distance i freak out but it would be a daily occurance for many peole in the USA.

It is safer here in Tanzania and 80%+ of the country is in poverty. How does that work?

And as for comparing cars and parachutes to guns????

Cars are for transport, parachutes are for safety and fun, and GUNS ARE FOR KILLING. Full stop (period)

You guys are way too strung out 'up in here' I'm out.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[willard 0]

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You guys are way too strung out 'up in here' I'm out.

Bye.

[Royd 0]

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I will definitely visit the states but I’m damned if I would want to live there. if i hear a gunshot in the distance i freak out but it would be a daily occurance for many peole in the USA.

Then you won't want to come to Palatka, Fl. to jump.
There's a skeet range on the other side of the airport.

Sometimes, I wonder if they don't look up, see us under canopy, and say,"Hmmm."

[DaVinci 0]

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I poked at you gun fans by making innuendoes from the ‘bowling for columbine’ movie that 'Michael Moore' produced.

You compared the NRA to the KKK. BIG difference.

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All of a sudden you are all on the defensive and start say things like

"It’s not the guns its the people behind them"

"The NRA wants to make it illegal for criminals to own a gun"
that is the funniest one.

And they are both true...And no, convicted felons are not allowed to own guns.

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I would imagine in the USA guns are no unlike cell phones, from some of the conversations I have read in these very forums by some of you reading this post, guns can be a fashion accessory, they get outdated and people want the shiny one that fires more rounds faster. In turn they get outdated and are sold cheaply and end up in stockpiles!!!!

Not even close to correct.

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That is a serious problem. There are too many guns in the USA you cannot deny that?

Again, not correct.

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This is very disturbing for me as I have only ever seen a hand gun on a police officer(in other countries) and in a gun store.

Then you are making comments about things you don't understand, just like a whuffo.

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In the USA you can go to K mart and buy Ammo?????

If you don't see that as a problem, then you have problems or are purely complacent with gun control and the safety of your communities.

It is not a problem...And I am not complacent. My guns have never killed or comitted a crime. You want to blame the canopy for the hook turn...BAN Velocities and you WILL save lives.

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I will definitely visit the states

You have not even been here and you think you know how it is over here? Sheesh...Hello Whuffo!

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Cars are for transport, parachutes are for safety and fun, and GUNS ARE FOR KILLING. Full stop (period)

Again wrong. I have had fun with my guns and they have never killed anything.

You make a ton of comments about life in the US and you have never been here...Talk about how dangerous guns are, but have never shot them....See trend? You talk about things you don't know about yet expect your uneducated opinion to count.

[rhys 0]

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You make a ton of comments about life in the US and you have never been here...Talk about how dangerous guns are, but have never shot them....See trend? You talk about things you don't know about yet expect your uneducated opinion to count.

Dude you are far too highly strung, so considering you went to all the effort i will reply.

For every 'saint' like you there are 3 bad asses.

I live on the same planet as you and I have traveled to 4 continents and have experienced many cultures.

the US culture (or lack thereof) is well known worldwide.

Do I really need to travel to the USA to find out if what I have learned is correct?

what can you compare the USA to. Do you have a passport?

I don't want you to think that I hate America and the people. I have many American friends and aspire to visit over the next couple of years. there are some things that concern me though.

Maybe if you tasted life without the abundance of guns that you are used to then maybe you will understand where I am coming from.

And for your information I went hunting a couple of times when i was 22 years old and fired a 303 (world war 1 action with new stock and scope mods)

there see I do know what I am talking about, guns are 1 easy way to kill something.

Do your targets have images of human beings on them?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DaVinci 0]

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For every 'saint' like you there are 3 bad asses.

Have proof the ratio is 1/3 not 3/1?

From the NRA website:"Over 50,000 Certified Instructors now train about 750,000 gun owners a year."

50,000 + 750,000 is 800,000.

" In 1994, 44 million Americans owned 192 million firearms, 65 million of which were handguns."
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:WZuRmQdO_E4J:www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf+number+of+guns+bought+each+year+in+the+US&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

192 Million firearms...65 Million pistols.

There are about 38,000 gun related deaths each year. Those include criminal on criminal, accidents, police shootings...ect.

"At a rough estimate, about 38,000 Americans die each year of gunshot wounds, almost as many as are killed on the roads. Fewer than half of these deaths are homicides. Together, accidents and suicides account for 54% of firearms deaths."http://www.cscs.umich.edu/~crshalizi/Economist_Articles/home-on-the-range.html

65,000,000/38,000= 1710 guns per gun related death.

Or 1710/1

Lets just take gun owners...44,000,000/38,000 = 1157.

So the number of "saints" like me to gun deaths INCLUDING suicide and police is more like 1157/1 not 1/3 like you claim.

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I live on the same planet as you and I have traveled to 4 continents and have experienced many cultures.

the US culture (or lack thereof) is well known worldwide.

Do I really need to travel to the USA to find out if what I have learned is correct?

Nomally people learn before they criticize. You have never been to the US, yet you claim to know what it is like...That is *just* like a whuffo claiming that skydiving is for idiots.

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what can you compare the USA to. Do you have a passport?

For one, I have actual information what it is like to live in the US....For almost 4 decades. You don't and we are talking about the US. Yes, I have a passport and I have traveled to other countries...Funny thing is I don't think going to England, India, and Mexico, ect, makes me an expert on New Zealand (A place I have never been).

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Maybe if you tasted life without the abundance of guns that you are used to then maybe you will understand where I am coming from.

YOU have never been here.. YOU don't know what it is like to be here.

Maybe if you have actually tasted life with the abundance of guns you would understand where we come from. But you have never even BEEN here...What makes you a better judge of what it is like than a guy that has lived here almost 40 YEARS?!?!?!?!

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Do your targets have images of human beings on them?

Depends on what I am training for. Self defence...Yes.

I fail to see how you think you know more about American culture than a guy that lives here when you have never even stepped foot on US soil

That is ego.

You are just like a whuffo spouting stats they know nothing about.

[juanesky 0]

Apparently you have a chip on your shoulder regarding US.

1.With comments like these:"the US culture (or lack thereof) is well known worldwide.", is a poor attempt to insult other people you clearly profess no respect.

2.If you like to compare the NRA to the KKK, then be prepared to be called Troll, or something like that, because it clearly reveals your lack of any substantial knowledge of what the NRA is about.

3. You are not the only one here who has a passport (I actually have 3), and has traveled to many places, and only seen guns in the hands of the police or in stores only. Some people just don't like guns period. But to prove your misguided perception towards the ownership of guns, if you see them in the stores, then someone is definitely buying them.....FYI. Or so I thought that the laws of supply and demand will satisfy economies.....(this concept applies to every country you can ever set foot on.).

Well, I let you get on your hatred view towards anything US>......continue.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[skymedic 0]

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he second ammendment is the problem, unfortunately you cant take that away and you cant change the fact there are millions of guns in incorrect hands, and now you all feel the need to have one to be safe,

How many of you have actually pointed a gun and used it in self defence?

would that actually be helping your safety

What is interesting is when I lived and worked in NZ they still had huge amounts of very violent crime...no guns...but instead of shooting each other, the south aucklanders would just pound the snot out of each other with chains, bats, etc...etc...etc. Gangs were rampant when I was there. We flew people almost everyday after getting fucked up by gangs.

Point being that just because you ban all the guns in the world, that will not stop thugs from being thugs.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[rhys 0]

You're saying there is 4.3 guns for every person in your country like you are proud of it?

You can buy gun in New Zealand, hand guns in particular are very hard to obtain.

In New Zealand there are 1 million guns for 4.5+ million people.


It seems I am not the only one that thinks this way.

http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.7.23.174429.116.html


I do not hate everything america does as some of you are claiming. i hate people killing people (and animals) for no good reason.

America is a beautiful country with every imaginable landscape and geographical feature you could wisgh for.

I don't hate americans. I hate the govornment and I hate the infatuation with firearms, this infatuation makes this world even more unsafe than it already would be without it.

We share this planet and we all deserve to be safe.

Guns don't make the world safe, like you might like to beleive.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[DaVinci 0]

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You're saying there is 4.3 guns for every person in your country like you are proud of it?

No I am showing that your made up numbers are nowhere CLOSE to reality. You said 1 good guy to 3 bad guys.

But the real numbers are more like 1200 good guys to one bad guy. And that is INCLUDING suicides.

So you are spouting numbers and facts you know nothing about. Just like the NRA and KKK bullshit.

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I do not hate everything america does as some of you are claiming. i hate people killing people (and animals) for no good reason.

I don't see you ranting about gang violence in NZ?

Skymedic "What is interesting is when I lived and worked in NZ they still had huge amounts of very violent crime...no guns...but instead of shooting each other, the south aucklanders would just pound the snot out of each other with chains, bats, etc...etc...etc. Gangs were rampant when I was there. We flew people almost everyday after getting fucked up by gangs. "

So, you claim to be more civilized, but you have violence. And Skymedic has BEEN to NZ so he KNOWS. You have never been to the US yet you act like you know what it is like.

You are a US whuffo. You listen to "stories" and then try to make a stand with no real knowledge. Just like when a whuffo tries to stop skydiving since they heard it was dangerous.

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I do not hate everything america does as some of you are claiming. i hate people killing people (and animals) for no good reason.

People in NZ kill people for no good reason. Where is your outrage over that? What are you doing to stop gang violence at home?

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America is a beautiful country with every imaginable landscape and geographical feature you could wisgh for.

How do you know? You have never been here.

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I don't hate americans. I hate the govornment and I hate the infatuation with firearms, this infatuation makes this world even more unsafe than it already would be without it.

Americas fasination with firearms makes NZ gangs attack other people?

Like I said before, you are talking out of your ass. You have never even steped foot in the US yet you think you "know what it is like".

For most people life anywhere is the SAME. My day to day life I never even see a gun even though I own them. I never hear a gunshot, don't carry it to go buy milk ect. I also don't get into gang fights with baseball bats.

You are the one making Bullshit claims, spouting BS numbers, and insulting a Country you have never visited.

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Guns don't make the world safe, like you might like to beleive.

Lack of guns does not either...Reference the fact people in NZ die by violence.

[kelpdiver 2]

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"The NRA wants to make it illegal for criminals to own a gun"
that is the funniest one.
Can criminals actually legally own a gun at the moment?

If criminals can own a gun then you have some real problems in your country (oh yeah we already established that)

Actually, my exact words were: "The NRA wants to deny guns to all criminals. "

I know they speak funny English in New Zealand (perhaps influenced by the dominant race there, the sheep), but there's a pretty big difference in the statements.

That said, the NRA has been adament with the last two administrations that they actually charge criminals for trying to buy guns through normal channels. The Clinton Administration bragged about the hundreds of thousands stopped from purchasing by the Brady Bill, but prosecuted a few dozen or maybe a couple hundred of them.

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The bank that was giving a rifle away to those that opened a bank account in the 'bowling for columbine' movie.

Was that a hoax? I can't quite work that out but if it was not a Hoax then that point alone says the entire movie needed to say.

To people who would believe something they see in a movie, yes, that was all the movie needed to say.
(BAAAA!!! you are a sheep)

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It is safer here in Tanzania and 80%+ of the country is in poverty. How does that work?

From the State Department on traveling to Tanzania.
SAFETY AND SECURITY: Terrorist incidents in the recent past highlight the continuing threat posed by terrorism in East Africa and the capacity of terrorist groups to carry out such attacks. On August 7, 1998, terrorists bombed the U.S. Embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi, Kenya. On November 28, 2002, terrorists bombed a hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, approximately 50 miles north of the Kenya-Tanzania border, and unsuccessfully attempted to shoot down an Israeli charter plane departing Mombassa Airport. U.S. citizens should be aware of the risk of indiscriminate attacks on civilian targets including usual gathering places of tourists and Westerners. At all times, travelers should maintain a high level of security vigilance. They should avoid political rallies and related public gatherings. In the past, peaceful demonstrations have turned violent with little or no warning as riot police clashed with demonstrators.

The population in Zanzibar is majority Muslim and holds traditional values. Some Zanzibar newspapers have warned that women who dress immodestly may be subject to harassment. American citizens are advised to dress modestly and to refrain from intemperate public behavior.

The area near Tanzania's borders with Rwanda and Burundi has been the site of minor military clashes, and refugee flows across the borders into Tanzania continue. There have been a number of incidents of criminal and violent activity in the region. Travelers to this area should exercise caution. U.S. officials, in keeping with UN security procedures, request police escorts on parts of the Rusomo to Kahama road near the Rwandan border because of an increase in armed bandit attacks.

Inter-city transportation routes between major destinations such as Arusha and Dar es Salaam are serviced by a variety of carriers that offer differing levels of safety and comfort. U.S. citizens who travel by bus are urged to select carriers who use modern equipment and to avoid utilizing vehicles that are in obvious disrepair. Americans on long-haul bus routes in Tanzania have been victims of “druggings” in which drug-laced food and drink are used to sedate unsuspecting passengers so their belongings can be stolen easily. Travelers are cautioned not to accept food or beverages from fellow passengers.

In-town transportation is best accomplished using taxis or hired drivers from a reputable source. Travelers should be wary of using the ubiquitous microbuses (dala-dalas), which are frequently overcrowded, poorly maintained, a common site of petty theft, and whose operation is generally unsafe.

A continuing concern is Tourè Drive on Msasani Peninsula in Dar es Salaam. It is the beach front road leading from the Sea Cliff Hotel into town and provides an inviting view of the ocean. However, there are regular reports of daytime muggings, pick-pocketing, and theft from cars. This road continues to be an area of concern for any time of day, on foot, or in vehicles. US government personnel are expressly advised to avoid walking or running along Tourè Drive.

For the latest security information, Americans traveling abroad should regularly monitor the Department’s Internet web site where the current Travel Warnings and Public Announcements, including the Worldwide Caution Public Announcement, can be found.

Up-to-date information on safety and security can also be obtained by calling 1-888-407-4747 toll free in the U.S. and Canada, or for callers outside the U.S. and Canada, a regular toll-line at 1-202-501-4444. These numbers are available from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, Monday through Friday (except U.S. federal holidays).

The Department of State urges American citizens to take responsibility for their own personal security while traveling overseas. For general information about appropriate measures travelers can take to protect themselves in an overseas environment, see the Department of State’s pamphlet A Safe Trip Abroad.

CRIME: Crime is a serious problem in Tanzania, and visitors should be alert and cautious. Street crime in Dar es Salaam is common and includes mugging, vehicle theft, "smash and grab" attacks on vehicles, armed robbery, and burglary. Thieves and pickpockets on buses and trains steal from inattentive passengers.

Crime involving firearms is becoming more common. A series of robberies involving increasing levels of violence has occurred along the coast and on Zanzibar. Robbers have held up tour buses and dive boats at gunpoint. In July 2004, a group of volunteer conservation workers was attacked on Pemba Island. Two of the group suffered gunshot wounds.

Pedestrians on beaches and footpaths, both in isolated areas and in popular tourist venues, are often targeted for robbery or assault. This is especially true on Zanzibar and in Dar es Salaam and its environs. Visitors should limit the amount of cash they carry and leave valuables, such as passports, jewelry and airline tickets, in a hotel safe or other secure place. Cameras are highly coveted by thieves, and should be guarded carefully. Because of the potential for fraud, credit cards should only be used in reputable tourist hotels. Sexual assaults involving tourists are also an increasing concern. Travelers are warned to avoid walking alone after dark.

Carjacking has occurred in both rural and urban areas. Visitors are advised to drive with doors locked and windows rolled up. Travelers are urged not to stop between populated areas and to travel in convoys if possible.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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I know they speak funny English in New Zealand (perhaps influenced by the dominant race there, the sheep), but there's a pretty big difference in the statements.

There may have been some decent statements in your post, but I stopped reading after that sentence.

[rehmwa 2]

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I know they speak funny English in New Zealand (perhaps influenced by the dominant race there, the sheep), but there's a pretty big difference in the statements.

There may have been some decent statements in your post, but I stopped reading after that sentence.

good idea, he obviously doesn't realize that sheep aren't domineering, they are passive aggressive

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

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I know they speak funny English in New Zealand (perhaps influenced by the dominant race there, the sheep), but there's a pretty big difference in the statements.

There may have been some decent statements in your post, but I stopped reading after that sentence.

bullshit, you stopped reading months ago.

And hey, if he wants to make brushing generalizations of Americans, he's fair game for the same. Esp if he wants to claim we're the ones that need to loosen up.

[rhys 0]

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From the State Department on traveling to Tanzania.

and that is why in my town there is a Muslim mosque, a Hindu temple and a Lutheran church all next door to each other. they are all peaceful people and say hello to each other. they do not fear each other but simply get on with it and accept each others differences. that is how it is here.

Our area is 50% Muslim and we do not have any trouble with my finance wearing a singlet or knee high skirt. Maybe zanzibar is different but that is why people love to go there, I'll let you know when i get back.

and as for the sheep jokes bro, I lived in Australia for almost 2 years. i have heard them all and they just make you look like an idiot. In fact the dairy industry is quickly overtaking the Wool and lamb industry in NZ. Soon there will be more cows so maybe you can come up with some 'cow fisting' jokes or something like that?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[kelpdiver 2]

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and as for the sheep jokes bro, I lived in Australia for almost 2 years. i have heard them all and they just make you look like an idiot. In fact the dairy industry is quickly overtaking the Wool and lamb industry in NZ. Soon there will be more cows so maybe you can come up with some 'cow fisting' jokes or something like that?

Cows, Hobbits, Sharks...yep, I got a lifetime supply ready in response to stupid and ignorant rants. OTOH, if you learn to cite properly and talk about matters in which you have actual knowledge, I'll go cow tipping instead.

[juanesky 0]

Well, don't you know he saw things in a M moron movie? So, there, that's where it seems he gets his info..., and top it off, with a baseless, and not so clever ,US hating insult.

Business as usual on SC I guess....

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[skymedic 0]

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You're saying there is 4.3 guns for every person in your country like you are proud of it?

You can buy gun in New Zealand, hand guns in particular are very hard to obtain.

In New Zealand there are 1 million guns for 4.5+ million people.

That's interesting because when I lived there it was next to impossible to obtain a gun of any sort. Locked down and then some. And like I said...just because you ban guns does not make crime go away.

I defend our right to bear arms....But I also don't own any guns and don't plan to own any guns.
BUT it is fundamental truth that if you give a little of freedom up it will continually leach away from there till there is no freedom left to give.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....