Americans: Do you feel your children are threatened by being shot by automatic weapons in their schoolyard?

[mr2mk1g 10]

John, even your definitions stretch a little with that list.

Here we've had Dunblane where a quarter of our entire annual firearms homicides were caused in a single morning on a class full of primary school children...

As far as school shootings go that's pretty much it for the UK. Certainly out of your list that's the only murder with either firearms or committed at a school.

You can't really compare things like the Shipman murders where a Doctor went round euthanizing 90-year-olds with morphine injections over a 30 year period to a school-yard-shooting. Even on your definitions thats a pretty big stretch...

[narcimund 0]

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I love this term "madmen." It makes everything seem so simple.

Perhaps you have a better name for people who murder a lot of children?

Many.

But you don't want to learn anything so I'll let you stay limited by your over-simplistic, media-fed, emotion-controlled vocabulary.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[waltappel 1]

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But you don't want to learn anything so I'll let you stay limited by your over-simplistic, media-fed, emotion-controlled vocabulary.

Yeah, whatever.

From my point of view, it *is* a simple concept. When someone goes postal, they are mad, crazy, nuts, insane, psychotic, in a rage, or whatever else you want to call it. I don't care what terminology the media uses.

"Emotion-controlled" vocabulary? Good point. Let's not hurt the feelings of those psychos or tarnish their memories by using overly-harsh adjectives.

Walt

[billvon 3,114]

>I worry that those precious bullets are gonna be wasted on children while
>they could've been used on you.

Absolutely no death threats even if you think it's a joke. Your one warning.

[PWScottIV 0]

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>I worry that those precious bullets are gonna be wasted on children while
>they could've been used on you.

Absolutely no death threats even if you think it's a joke. Your one warning.

Lol, sorry.

Gravity Waits for No One.

[DaVinci 0]

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I love this term "madmen." It makes everything seem so simple.

Fits, don't ya think? Only a "madman" would shoot at little kids, or kill people at random for religion.

[narcimund 0]

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>I worry that those precious bullets are gonna be wasted on children while
>they could've been used on you.

Absolutely no death threats even if you think it's a joke. Your one warning.

There's been a bunch of these in speaker's corner lately. Is it an actual new phenomenon or am I just noticing them more?

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[narcimund 0]

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Fits, don't ya think? Only a "madman" would shoot at little kids, or kill people at random for religion.

One can always anticipate flawless public policy from people who eagerly combine willful ignorance with the impulse for violent retribution.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

[idrankwhat 0]

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How are terrorist attacks analogous to school shootings? Was 9/11 similar to Columbine?

Innocent people die at the hands of madmen.

Wow, how did the Iraq war get brought into this

[steve1 5]

I work in a really tough school, in an even rougher town on an Indian Reservation. When I started here 23 years ago, this town had the highest per capita murder rate in the entire U.S. Most of them were killed with a knife.

In one of the steel doors, on the outside of our school, are a couple dents, made by a drive-by shooter (probably a 9mm).

Many people who work here think it is only a matter of time before a shooting in the school happens.

Last year there were three kids planning to shoot up the school. Luckily the plot was discovered before it happened. We have two armed police officers in the school, which makes everyone feel a little safer, but the plan was to shoot them first.

I doubt if automatic weapons will be used, but it is possible. There are even a few folks here with fully automatic weapons (which of course are illegal). Personally I think a shotgun would be just as deadly, if not more so, in a room to room shootout.

Kids could be the ones targeted, but I think the school staff is more at risk. Then again it could be a knifing in the school. Knives are taken away from kids on a regular basis here.

In fact more people here have been killed with knives rather than with guns. And then again a whole lot of people have been simply beaten to death during a party, with no weapons at all used.

Oh by the way....Our school is looking for more teachers if you are interested....Steve1

[JohnRich 4]

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John, even your definitions stretch a little with that list.
Here we've had Dunblane... As far as school shootings go that's pretty much it for the UK.

If you think that England's gun laws guarantee that there will never be any more school shootings, then you are deluding yourself.

My point was, mass murderers will always find a way to carry out their carnage, be it with guns, or something else. Gun laws do not stop madmen. If they are willing to ignore the most important law of all; the law against murder, then ignoring minor gun control laws is nothing to them.

Here in the U.S., the worst school massacre ever committed was done with bombs, not guns, and it killed thrice as many children as Columbine. (That was in Bath, Michigan.)

[JohnRich 4]

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I love this term "madmen." It makes everything seem so simple.

Perhaps you have a better name for people who murder a lot of children?

Many. But you don't want to learn anything so I'll let you stay limited by your over-simplistic, media-fed, emotion-controlled vocabulary.

Oh, I see. You're just here to sit on the sidelines and throw insults like an unruly sports fan, and not actually participate in any serious discussion. Because if you actually offered some ideas of your own, well then, someone might criticize what you had to say. And by gosh, you don't want to have to put up with that. It's easier just to hurl insults at everyone else, while refusing to get involved, and all the while maintaining an air of egotistical superiority. Got it.

[Remster 30]

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If you think that England's gun laws guarantee that there will be never be any more school shootings, then you are deluding yourself.

Who the fuck talks about guarantees?

Its a societal decission on how to mitigate, limit, and attempts to control issues within it. The UK chose gun control, and it seens to work for them. The US chose to go the other way with its interpretation of the constitution, and its either caused, or the cause, of the gun culture here.

Has the 2nd ammendment guarranted people dont use guns to kill innocents?

Remster

[DaVinci 0]

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Has the 2nd ammendment guarranted people dont use guns to kill innocents?

It does not, but bans do not either.

[christelsabine 1]

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Gun laws do not stop madmen.

So, why are laws made anyhow? Laws against burglary etc. - if a law does NOT stop madmen?

Why don't you just let assassins enter the plane with explosives? Madmen will not be stopped by laws against it - they will blow themselves and others up as they like, they're madmen, right?

Your addiction to guns appears to be kinda weird.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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If you think that England's gun laws guarantee that there will never be any more school shootings, then you are deluding yourself.

In the same way you are deluding yourself if you think that concealed carry guarantees no more gun crimes.

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you think that England's gun laws guarantee that there will never be any more school shootings, then you are deluding yourself.

In the same way you are deluding yourself if you think that concealed carry guarantees no more gun crimes.

concealed (or nearby cars) carry has been the stopping point for quite a few of the recent school gun crimes. If, as said, the goal is mitigation rather than the nirvana of total prevention, that is certainly a relevent topic.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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concealed (or nearby cars) carry has been the stopping point for quite a few of the recent school gun crimes. If, as said, the goal is mitigation rather than the nirvana of total prevention, that is certainly a relevent topic.

And the unavilability of guns I am sure has stopped many other crimes too. In the end they are two thoughts/concepts/strategies to possibly reduce gun crimes. (once you take the second amendment out of it)

So far those countries with strict gun laws seem to be fairing better. But, times may change.

[kelpdiver 2]

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So far some countries with strict gun laws seem to be fairing better. But, times may change.

ok, fixed it for you.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

ahh yes semantics. I should have said Western.

[JohnRich 4]

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Gun laws do not stop madmen.

So, why are laws made anyhow? Laws against burglary etc. - if a law does NOT stop madmen? Your addiction to guns appears to be kinda weird.

Laws are necessary in order to legally punish the criminals after the fact, if you catch them alive. They are not a deterrant to madmen.

But just because laws don't stop madmen from trying, doesn't mean that you abandon all efforts in prevention and deterrance. You still need security to try and catch them in the act.

In the story which is the subject of this thread, the murders didn't end until good guys with guns arrived on the scene. And yet you consider that to be "weird". I suppose if you had your way, he would still be out there on the loose shooting people...

Did your strict gun laws in Germany prevent a madman from killing 18 people in a school in the city of Erfurt? Did they stop the school shooter in Branneburg? The one in Freising? No. No. No. I guess your laws don't work too well against madmen either. How about that.

[JohnRich 4]

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If you think that England's gun laws guarantee that there will never be any more school shootings, then you are deluding yourself.

In the same way you are deluding yourself if you think that concealed carry guarantees no more gun crimes.

You are deluding yourself if you think that I've ever made any such claim.

But please note what Kelpdiver said in the follow-up post to your message. CCW doesn't stop madmen from trying, but it can and has stopped them from continuing what they've started.

And why do you think they pick schools for their targets, instead of, say, a police station? Because they know there won't be anyone with a gun there to fight back, and therefore they will be free to exert their murderous will, unhindered.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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You are deluding yourself if you think that I've ever made any such claim.

You were the first person to start talking about a guarantee.

So far in most of the world, strict gun laws seem to be working better than proliferating gun ownership.

[JohnRich 4]

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You were the first person to start talking about a guarantee.

No. Someone else started this line of thought by using the word "never", to wit:

"correct me if im wrong but I far as I can tell there has never been a school yard massacre in England."

That statement is the equivalent of a belief that strict gun laws constitute a "guarantee" against school shootings. "Never" is such an awfully big word. It only takes one incident to prove "never" to be wrong. That one incident is: Dunblane.

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So far in most of the world, strict gun laws seem to be working better than proliferating gun ownership.

So that would explain why places like Washington, D.C. have such low crime rates, right? (sarcasm) Since there are numerous examples to the contrary, your claim is hollow. All this proves is that crime rates are not affected by gun laws.

[christelsabine 1]

Oh dear Johnny, you're giving your best but,

Branneburg: In 2000, a 16 y/o school boy killed his boarding school boss. No school shooting. It was a personal matter between the two of them. No school massacre, JohnRich, sorry for you.

Erfurt: School shooting was in 2002. A big shock to our nation as we are not used to events like that.

Freising 2006: A man killes two others in his former company. Then goes on to an economy school (where he learned) and killed another man. School massacre??? Not at all.

You should check your sources, JR. Lousy work.

If it makes you feel good, go on with your "investigations", JohnRich. Everybody's got his hobbies, I've got mine, too. They are a bit less bloody. But that's just me.

dudeist skydiver # 3105