ExAFO 0 #51 February 28, 2007 Quotea breif ex. homeopathy comes from the greek word homios meaning like and pathos meaning suffering. The word homeopathy simply means treating like with like. This means that a substance that causes symptoms of a illness in a well person can also be used to remedy similar symptoms when they result from illness. Interesting, albeit irrelevant notion...Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #52 February 28, 2007 Quote... in Africa... against immunisation on principle... Is this view widespread? It's possibly quite widespread among folk who call themselves Napoleon and rule over their padded cell (or should do so)! Speaking personally, my attitude (which my *unpaid* Family Doctor wholeheartedly supports has always been: "I'm going to "X", might go to "Y" and it's quite close to "Z". Stab me and script me!" Because of this, I *think* that I'm bang up to date with every conceivable vaccination (including most of the esoteric ones). Even a $100 "shot" is a damn sight cheaper than intensive care or an air-ambulance. Incidentally, if you're travelling, isn't getting all the relevant vaccinations a condition of insurance? Isn't it something like "Taking Reasonable Precautions"? Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #53 February 28, 2007 What's the homeopathic treatment for... a compound fracture? Appendicitis(sp?)? Ruptured Spleen? Skin Cancer? Torn ACL? Kidney Stones? Please enlighten me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,116 #54 February 28, 2007 >it works on a vibe level kinda like when you throw a rock in the pond >it's effects keep going long after the rock is gone. Well, then why do you need this homeopathic nonsense? Just sit by a pond and throw a rock in! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #55 February 28, 2007 Quote>it works on a vibe level kinda like when you throw a rock in the pond >it's effects keep going long after the rock is gone. Well, then why do you need this homeopathic nonsense? Just sit by a pond and throw a rock in! ...then fart on it.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #56 February 28, 2007 Well than you have a good doctor and I'm glad she takes the time to talk to you. And that she ask YOU if you want drugs. You should be in control of your health care you know your body better than a doctor. I think a lot of doctors don't listen but yours does and that's awesome. Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites philh 0 #57 February 28, 2007 you do not seem aware of the history of homeopathy and its current pratice. what you refer to is one of the principles of homeopathy , something for which I might add is not backed up by any evidence. But what you fail to see is the other primamry principle of homeopathy the principle of infintsemilas. this fundementlal principle of homeopathy is tht the more you dilute a substance th more potent it becomes. If you wish to read about it I suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy This priinciple is in direct contradiction to known laws of chemistry and physics so either these sciences are wrong or homeopathy is wrong. Your vibration comment is no solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #58 February 28, 2007 you guys are making me laughPlaytime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #59 February 28, 2007 I've heard that smacking yourself on the forehead with a claw hammer is good for a headache.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #60 February 28, 2007 QuoteI think a lot of doctors don't listen but yours does and that's awesome. every doctor I've ever visited listened - private, military, etc and none of them ever came over to my house and force fed me medicine (giving a prescription does not mean you have to buy it and take the pills - though usually it seems to be good advice to do so, I've not gone and filled a presciption before.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #61 February 28, 2007 have you ever tried a remedy and felt better? Until you have I don't know what to tell you.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #62 February 28, 2007 QuoteI've heard that smacking yourself on the forehead with a claw hammer is good for a headache. don't forget that bleeding, poultices, and leeches are also pretty gosh darn neat ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,116 #63 February 28, 2007 > have you ever tried a remedy and felt better? I have! Pseudoephedrine works great. Zinc (Zicam) works pretty well for avoiding sickness when you feel something coming on. Diphenhydramine is good when it's pollen season around here, and loratadine is pretty good as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #64 February 28, 2007 Quote> have you ever tried a remedy and felt better? I have! Pseudoephedrine works great. Zinc (Zicam) works pretty well for avoiding sickness when you feel something coming on. Diphenhydramine is good when it's pollen season around here, and loratadine is pretty good as well. Amphetamines are fun also.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #65 February 28, 2007 compound fracture um yea I would see a doctor for that. Homeopathy can be used for flu colds headache earache pinkeye warts UTI fevers insomnia the list goes on.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #66 February 28, 2007 Well then why am I explaining myself?Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gene03 0 #67 February 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut doctors are gods and know everything and, and, and. ...and centuries of medical research by thousands of trained physicians are apparently trumped by amatuers who rely on anecdotes, gut feelings, and paranoia. I'd sooner take the MD's views than someone who doesn't know dick about medicine, other than what they hear from conspiracy theorists... Neil, It seems you and I will never agree on this topic and I see our posts are degenerating close to a PA. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Anger and pent up frustration doesn't do anybody any good anyway. You can have the last word.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 2 #68 February 28, 2007 Quoteyou guys are making me laugh That's the sum total of your rebuttal to everything that's been said? Windcatcher? Is that you? Pretty sneaky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites philh 0 #69 February 28, 2007 This is irrelevant. The body has an immune system and can heal itself. but this immune system is far from perfect. When one gets ill there is a good (but not 100%) chance that by doing nothing we will get better anyway. If we take a teatment and then get better we do not know whether it was the treatment that made us better or some other factor such as our immune system doing its thing. That is why our personal experience as to what works is defintley not a good assesmnet. A good assesment is a randomised double blind trial. This will show whether or not its the treatment that is doing the curing or not. conventional medicines are subject to these trials and alternative medicines are not. In other words conventional medicines are put to objective testing , alternative medicines would not pass such testing that is why we should not trust them. if you are not familar with the randomised double blind trial i suggest: http://skepdic.com/control.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #70 February 28, 2007 No I'll keep talking. Someone said fart on it and it made me laughPlaytime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #71 February 28, 2007 the drug companies are paying for there drug to be tested. Natural things cannot be patented so there is not a lot of money in it for drug companies. All about the $$$$ for the drug companiesPlaytime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites philh 0 #72 February 28, 2007 The drug companies are paying for the drugs to be tested because they are required to test their drugs by regulatory authorities. These durgs have been shown to work. alternative medicines have been shown not to work, your only criticism is that drug companies make money on their patents, so what? That happens with all inventions if people couldnt patent their inventions no one would invent aything. does that mean their inventions dont work?If you have direct evidence of fraud in a trial please present it otherwise you have no case. Those patents also only last fo a limited amount of time anyway and then the invention is patent free. Let me give you an exmaple of real medicine with real effects that was in the news only recently. This from the bbc:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4792756.stm The World Health Organization and the United Nations Children's Fund revealed deaths (from measles) fell from 871,000 in 1999 to 454,000 in 2004. The largest reduction occurred in sub-Saharan Africa, which had been hardest hit by the disease, where cases and deaths dropped by 60%. Vaccination has been cited as the reason for the fall in cases. There are real peoples lives at stake here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shortyj 0 #73 February 28, 2007 alternative medicines do work. but you can't make money from them so they are not tested.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites philh 0 #74 February 28, 2007 do you have any scientific evidence for your assertions or not? Your comment that you cant make money from them so they are not tested is absurd. Last time i went to my health food shop they weren't exactly giving the stuff away. In fact the Cam industry was estimated to have $34billion worth of sales in 2000 (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ap/pm/2002/00000035/00000002/art01057) in the Us alone and it has grown since then, worldwide this is an enormous industry making huge stacks of money. Take a look at the excerpt alone you will find that alternative medicine is 1 in complete contradiction to known laws of physics and 2 very profitable indeed. "Oscillococcinum, a 200C product "for the relief of colds and flu-like symptoms," involves "dilutions" that are even more far-fetched. Its "active ingredient" is prepared by incubating small amounts of a freshly killed duck's liver and heart for 40 days. The resultant solution is then filtered, freeze-dried, rehydrated, repeatedly diluted, and impregnated into sugar granules. If a single molecule of the duck's heart or liver were to survive the dilution, its concentration would be 1 in 100200. This huge number, which has 400 zeroes, is vastly greater than the estimated number of molecules in the universe (about one googol, which is a 1 followed by 100 zeroes). In its February 17, 1997, issue, U.S. News & World Report noted that only one duck per year is needed to manufacture the product, which had total sales of $20 million in 1996. The magazine dubbed that unlucky bird "the $20-million duck." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,116 #75 February 28, 2007 > alternative medicines do work. but you can't make money from them so they are not tested. ?? Many _are_ tested and _do_ work. Zicam is one. Statins are another - the first statin came from a yeast, and you can still get red yeast rice which contains a (dilute) statin. However, once science gets their hands on a drug, people who once 'believed' in it now think it has become 'tainted' or something by modern medicine - and then abandon it. Which is too bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 3 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 3,116 #54 February 28, 2007 >it works on a vibe level kinda like when you throw a rock in the pond >it's effects keep going long after the rock is gone. Well, then why do you need this homeopathic nonsense? Just sit by a pond and throw a rock in! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #55 February 28, 2007 Quote>it works on a vibe level kinda like when you throw a rock in the pond >it's effects keep going long after the rock is gone. Well, then why do you need this homeopathic nonsense? Just sit by a pond and throw a rock in! ...then fart on it.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #56 February 28, 2007 Well than you have a good doctor and I'm glad she takes the time to talk to you. And that she ask YOU if you want drugs. You should be in control of your health care you know your body better than a doctor. I think a lot of doctors don't listen but yours does and that's awesome. Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #57 February 28, 2007 you do not seem aware of the history of homeopathy and its current pratice. what you refer to is one of the principles of homeopathy , something for which I might add is not backed up by any evidence. But what you fail to see is the other primamry principle of homeopathy the principle of infintsemilas. this fundementlal principle of homeopathy is tht the more you dilute a substance th more potent it becomes. If you wish to read about it I suggest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy This priinciple is in direct contradiction to known laws of chemistry and physics so either these sciences are wrong or homeopathy is wrong. Your vibration comment is no solution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #58 February 28, 2007 you guys are making me laughPlaytime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #59 February 28, 2007 I've heard that smacking yourself on the forehead with a claw hammer is good for a headache.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #60 February 28, 2007 QuoteI think a lot of doctors don't listen but yours does and that's awesome. every doctor I've ever visited listened - private, military, etc and none of them ever came over to my house and force fed me medicine (giving a prescription does not mean you have to buy it and take the pills - though usually it seems to be good advice to do so, I've not gone and filled a presciption before.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #61 February 28, 2007 have you ever tried a remedy and felt better? Until you have I don't know what to tell you.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #62 February 28, 2007 QuoteI've heard that smacking yourself on the forehead with a claw hammer is good for a headache. don't forget that bleeding, poultices, and leeches are also pretty gosh darn neat ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #63 February 28, 2007 > have you ever tried a remedy and felt better? I have! Pseudoephedrine works great. Zinc (Zicam) works pretty well for avoiding sickness when you feel something coming on. Diphenhydramine is good when it's pollen season around here, and loratadine is pretty good as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #64 February 28, 2007 Quote> have you ever tried a remedy and felt better? I have! Pseudoephedrine works great. Zinc (Zicam) works pretty well for avoiding sickness when you feel something coming on. Diphenhydramine is good when it's pollen season around here, and loratadine is pretty good as well. Amphetamines are fun also.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #65 February 28, 2007 compound fracture um yea I would see a doctor for that. Homeopathy can be used for flu colds headache earache pinkeye warts UTI fevers insomnia the list goes on.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #66 February 28, 2007 Well then why am I explaining myself?Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gene03 0 #67 February 28, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut doctors are gods and know everything and, and, and. ...and centuries of medical research by thousands of trained physicians are apparently trumped by amatuers who rely on anecdotes, gut feelings, and paranoia. I'd sooner take the MD's views than someone who doesn't know dick about medicine, other than what they hear from conspiracy theorists... Neil, It seems you and I will never agree on this topic and I see our posts are degenerating close to a PA. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Anger and pent up frustration doesn't do anybody any good anyway. You can have the last word.“The only fool bigger than the person who knows it all is the person who argues with him. Stanislaw Jerzy Lec quotes (Polish writer, poet and satirist 1906-1966) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #68 February 28, 2007 Quoteyou guys are making me laugh That's the sum total of your rebuttal to everything that's been said? Windcatcher? Is that you? Pretty sneaky. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #69 February 28, 2007 This is irrelevant. The body has an immune system and can heal itself. but this immune system is far from perfect. When one gets ill there is a good (but not 100%) chance that by doing nothing we will get better anyway. If we take a teatment and then get better we do not know whether it was the treatment that made us better or some other factor such as our immune system doing its thing. That is why our personal experience as to what works is defintley not a good assesmnet. A good assesment is a randomised double blind trial. This will show whether or not its the treatment that is doing the curing or not. conventional medicines are subject to these trials and alternative medicines are not. In other words conventional medicines are put to objective testing , alternative medicines would not pass such testing that is why we should not trust them. if you are not familar with the randomised double blind trial i suggest: http://skepdic.com/control.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #70 February 28, 2007 No I'll keep talking. Someone said fart on it and it made me laughPlaytime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #71 February 28, 2007 the drug companies are paying for there drug to be tested. Natural things cannot be patented so there is not a lot of money in it for drug companies. All about the $$$$ for the drug companiesPlaytime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #72 February 28, 2007 The drug companies are paying for the drugs to be tested because they are required to test their drugs by regulatory authorities. These durgs have been shown to work. alternative medicines have been shown not to work, your only criticism is that drug companies make money on their patents, so what? That happens with all inventions if people couldnt patent their inventions no one would invent aything. does that mean their inventions dont work?If you have direct evidence of fraud in a trial please present it otherwise you have no case. Those patents also only last fo a limited amount of time anyway and then the invention is patent free. Let me give you an exmaple of real medicine with real effects that was in the news only recently. This from the bbc:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4792756.stm The World Health Organization and the United Nations Children's Fund revealed deaths (from measles) fell from 871,000 in 1999 to 454,000 in 2004. The largest reduction occurred in sub-Saharan Africa, which had been hardest hit by the disease, where cases and deaths dropped by 60%. Vaccination has been cited as the reason for the fall in cases. There are real peoples lives at stake here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shortyj 0 #73 February 28, 2007 alternative medicines do work. but you can't make money from them so they are not tested.Playtime is essential. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #74 February 28, 2007 do you have any scientific evidence for your assertions or not? Your comment that you cant make money from them so they are not tested is absurd. Last time i went to my health food shop they weren't exactly giving the stuff away. In fact the Cam industry was estimated to have $34billion worth of sales in 2000 (http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ap/pm/2002/00000035/00000002/art01057) in the Us alone and it has grown since then, worldwide this is an enormous industry making huge stacks of money. Take a look at the excerpt alone you will find that alternative medicine is 1 in complete contradiction to known laws of physics and 2 very profitable indeed. "Oscillococcinum, a 200C product "for the relief of colds and flu-like symptoms," involves "dilutions" that are even more far-fetched. Its "active ingredient" is prepared by incubating small amounts of a freshly killed duck's liver and heart for 40 days. The resultant solution is then filtered, freeze-dried, rehydrated, repeatedly diluted, and impregnated into sugar granules. If a single molecule of the duck's heart or liver were to survive the dilution, its concentration would be 1 in 100200. This huge number, which has 400 zeroes, is vastly greater than the estimated number of molecules in the universe (about one googol, which is a 1 followed by 100 zeroes). In its February 17, 1997, issue, U.S. News & World Report noted that only one duck per year is needed to manufacture the product, which had total sales of $20 million in 1996. The magazine dubbed that unlucky bird "the $20-million duck." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #75 February 28, 2007 > alternative medicines do work. but you can't make money from them so they are not tested. ?? Many _are_ tested and _do_ work. Zicam is one. Statins are another - the first statin came from a yeast, and you can still get red yeast rice which contains a (dilute) statin. However, once science gets their hands on a drug, people who once 'believed' in it now think it has become 'tainted' or something by modern medicine - and then abandon it. Which is too bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
