Guest #1 February 24, 2007 Nearly 800 Contractors Killed in Iraq Associated Press In a largely invisible cost of the war in Iraq, nearly 800 civilians working under contract to the Pentagon have been killed and more than 3,300 hurt doing jobs normally handled by the U.S. military, according to figures gathered by The Associated Press. Exactly how many of these employees doing the Pentagon's work are Americans is uncertain. But the casualty figures make it clear that the Defense Department's count of more than 3,100 U.S. military dead does not tell the whole story. "It's another unseen expense of the war," said Thomas Houle, a retired Air Force reservist whose brother-in-law died while driving a truck in Iraq. "It's almost disrespectful that it doesn't get the kind of publicity or respect that a soldier would." Employees of defense contractors such as Halliburton, Blackwater and Wackenhut cook meals, do laundry, repair infrastruture, translate documents, analyze intelligence, guard prisoners, protect military convoys, deliver water in the heavily fortified Green Zone and stand sentry at buildings - often highly dangerous duties almost identical to those performed by many U.S. troops. The U.S. has outsourced so many war and reconstruction duties that there are almost as many contractors (120,000) as U.S. troops (135,000) in the war zone. The insurgents in Iraq make little if any distinction between the contractors and U.S. troops. In January, four contractors for Blackwater were killed when their helicopter was downed by gunfire in Baghdad. In 2004, two Americans and a British engineer were kidnapped and decapitated. That same year, a mob of insurgents ambushed a supply convoy escorted by contractors, burning and mutilating the guards' bodies and stringing up two of them from a bridge. But when contractors are killed or wounded, the casualties are off the books, in a sense. While the Defense Department issues a press release whenever a soldier or Marine dies, the AP had to file a Freedom of Information Act request to obtain figures on pre-2006 civilian deaths and injuries from the Labor Department, which tracks workers' compensation claims. By the end of 2006, the Labor Department had quietly recorded 769 deaths and 3,367 injuries serious enough to require four or more days off the job. "It used to be, womb to tomb, the military took care of everything. We had cooks. We had people who ran recreation facilities. But those are not core competencies you need to run a war," said Brig. Gen. Neil Dial, deputy director of intelligence for U.S. Central Command. With the all-volunteer force, the military began more stringent recruiting of troops and made greater use of nonmilitary professionals. "It puts professionals in harm's way," he conceded. Although contractors were widely used in Vietnam for support and reconstruction tasks, they have never before represented such a large portion of the U.S. presence in a war zone or accounted for so many security and military-like jobs, experts say. Some of the workers are former U.S. military personnel. Some are foreigners. The companies and the U.S. government say they do not keep track of how many are Americans. The contractors are paid handsomely for the risks they take, with some making $100,000 or more per year, mostly tax-free - at least six times more than a new Army private, a rank likely to be driving a truck or doing some other unskilled work. The difference in pay can create ill will between the contractors and U.S. troops. "When they are side by side doing the same job, there is some resentment," said Rick Saccone, who worked as an intelligence contractor in Baghdad for a year. If the contractor deaths were added to the Pentagon's count of U.S. military casualties, the number of war dead would climb about 25 percent, from about 3,000 as of the end of 2006 to nearly 3,800. If the contractors injured badly enough to be off the job for at least four days were added to the nearly 14,000 U.S. troops requiring medical air transport because of injuries, the injury total would rise by about the same percentage. Early in the war, most of the casualties on the coalition side were military. But with the fall of Saddam Hussein, contractors flowed in behind the troops, and the number of deaths among the contract workers has been increasing each year. Contractor deaths are less costly politically, said Deborah Avant, a political science professor at George Washington University. "Every time there's a new thing that the U.S. government wants the military to do and there's not enough military to do it, contractors are hired," she said. "When we see the 3,000 service member deaths, there's probably an additional 1,000 deaths we don't see." Houle's brother-in-law, Hector C. Patino, was driving a truck for a Halliburton subsidiary in the Green Zone when he was killed by friendly fire at an Australian checkpoint. Patino, who served two tours in Vietnam, thought he was safe, said his mother, 82-year-old Flora Patino. "I said, 'Hector, you're playing with fire,'" she recalled. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #2 February 24, 2007 I'm conflicted by this story. On the one hand, you never want to hear about a large number of deaths. On the other hand, contractor is just a euphemism for mercenary. Mercs are generally paid much better than regular troops and generally understand the risk v. reward equation. They've consciously made a decision that their life is worth risking simply for the money. Nobody forced them to go. They where under no public service obligation to do so. It IS all about the money. If you're willing to go to a war JUST for the money . . . I'm not saying you deserve to die but, you certainly DO take your chances.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #3 February 24, 2007 Do they really mean that the Contractors are in combat/security roles or are they also covering engineers etc.. ? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #4 February 24, 2007 QuoteDo they really mean that the Contractors are in combat/security roles or are they also covering engineers etc.. ? The Pentagon has "contractors" in roles that soldiers would have had in previous wars. It makes the fatalities and injuries of "our boys" look better than they really are, and misleads about the true cost of the war. My opinion: the Pentagon isn't doing it to save money, ("with some making $100,000 or more per year, mostly tax-free - at least six times more than a new Army private") I think it's just PR cover for Bush.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #5 February 24, 2007 Cheers. So do thay have any idea of the numbers of 'civilian' commercial worker casualties? . (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #6 February 24, 2007 That's all true, but I wonder how many sell out cheap? If I'm gonna take that risk I need at least 150k/yr and that is still pretty cheap. Some go over for as little as 70k as I understand it. Not that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. I just think these guys go over as typical white collar Americans, thinking they can call the police for every infraction, these insurgents play in such a way that the typical apathetic American can't comprehend it; this is not a trip to the European countryside. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #7 February 24, 2007 QuoteIt makes the fatalities and injuries of "our boys" look better than they really are, and misleads about the true cost of the war. Right, so the defense budget doesn't include the 1/2 trillion + we/ve spent on the Iraq War, meaning the so-called defense budget is far larger than the enormous 1/2 trillion $ annual budget we now have. So you're right, drawing from 2 credit cards makes the tally look less severe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #8 February 24, 2007 That is the 800, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #9 February 24, 2007 On the one hand, you never want to hear about a large number of deaths. On the other hand, contractor is just a euphemism for mercenary. Mercs are generally paid much better than regular troops and generally understand the risk v. reward equation. They've consciously made a decision that their life is worth risking simply for the money. Nobody forced them to go. They where under no public service obligation to do so. It IS all about the moneyQuote the contractors over there now are doing jobs that the military doesn't have the manpower to cover down on itself without stretching our forces even thinner than they are now. for a while there were National Guard units getting mobilized for sometimes up to 18 month deployments and all they would do is stand at security checkpoints on bases. I even saw some guarding compounds inside bases, these positions are now being covered by contractors so we can send the NG troops home or use them for something more pertinent. The are running the chow halls, running laundry services, maintaining our living quarters, driving trucks between bases, protecting VIP's, and translating for us. Trying to have all these jobs filled by the military is impossible these contractors are necessary. None of these people are mercenaries.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #10 February 24, 2007 Sorry, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.... If the military needs more manpower then mobilise more manpower instead of expensive outrsourcing. It's not like all members of your active service military are committed to important tasks, is it? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #11 February 24, 2007 It's not like all members of your active service military are committed to important tasks, is it? Quote Actually this has been going on for a while now, it was pre 9-11 when the military started giving all these jobs out to contractors. If you look back to WWII the military was basically completely maintined by the military, everything, personnel clerks to mechanics were all soldiers. In recent years teh military has been making an effort to keep all soldiers deployable. When you sign into a new post the majority of the people you deal with during the inprocessing are civilians. Shortly after 9-11 when all military posts were locked down soldiers were doing all the checkpoint security, contractors have since been brought in so the MP's wouldn't be kept from deploying because they were too busy checking ID's at the gate. In Iraq its the same, basically all the jobs that would be a waste of time for a soldier to have to do are covered by contractors. I have my gripes about some aspects of it but for the most part they are keeping us from doing the shit jobs. I don't think mobilizing a Guard unit to maintain port-a-shitters would be the best use of our military.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #12 February 24, 2007 I kind of agree... we've been outsourcing for years too (MOD-Plods manning sentrry gates etc....) - but outsourcings is s'posed to be cheaper and it really does not look like it is, if you look at the salaries paid. <> - I can think of a few units, where that is exactly the best job for them (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #13 February 24, 2007 <> - I can think of a few units, where that is exactly the best job for them Quote Damnit we agree on something On the part of funds though, the salaries really depend on what you're doing, At my pay grade if I were deployed for a year I think I'd pull in somehwere in the mid 50's, there are some contractors making 6 figures but more often than not those salaries are reserved for the specialized jobs like PSD. Quite a few of the contractors are coming from small countries where 10K a year is rich, these guys are only making 15-20K tops, which to them is great. It's the management types which are mostly former military who make the big bucks, all the little worker bees are making little in comparison to US salaries but to them it's an awesome salary. Weighing all the benifits IMO contracting all these jobs is better in the long run. We probably are paying more overall but think about how the morale of the force would be and what the public outcry would be like if another 125K troops were sent to Iraq to do menial tasks as opposed to creating more jobs.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #14 February 24, 2007 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #15 February 24, 2007 Wonders never ceaseQuote It just so happens the ol' GQ here was looking into contractor jobs after I get out as well Blackwater was offering me a hefty salary to be an armorer. There are higher paying jobs out there but I figured when I get out my gun slingin days will be over, PSD pays great but isn't worth the risk IMOHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #16 February 24, 2007 Good luck... The military never paid brilliantly, but in may case it trained me and put me in a great position. I'll never regret joining up. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #17 February 24, 2007 QuoteDo they really mean that the Contractors are in combat/security roles or are they also covering engineers etc.. ? A large portion of the diplomatic security in Iraq is handled by contractors.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #18 February 24, 2007 QuoteThat's all true, but I wonder how many sell out cheap? If I'm gonna take that risk I need at least 150k/yr and that is still pretty cheap. Some go over for as little as 70k as I understand it. Depends on the contractor, the job, and the location. QuoteNot that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Bottlenecks are easy to create in some of the streets. Some of the contractors may develop patterns that are more difficult to deviate from. That's a major cause. QuoteI just think these guys go over as typical white collar Americans, thinking they can call the police for every infraction, these insurgents play in such a way that the typical apathetic American can't comprehend it; this is not a trip to the European countryside. That perception is not correct. Many of these people are retired foreign service or GS employees as well as ex-military.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #19 February 24, 2007 Not that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Quote It's actually not all that hard to get someone into a situation where this can be done over there. In some places the taffic is so bad that no matter hard you try and leave yourself outs you get stuck, sometimes to the point where you can't open your doors and you'd bee fighting from teh seat of the vehicle. It's uglyHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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shropshire 0 #10 February 24, 2007 Sorry, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.... If the military needs more manpower then mobilise more manpower instead of expensive outrsourcing. It's not like all members of your active service military are committed to important tasks, is it? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #11 February 24, 2007 It's not like all members of your active service military are committed to important tasks, is it? Quote Actually this has been going on for a while now, it was pre 9-11 when the military started giving all these jobs out to contractors. If you look back to WWII the military was basically completely maintined by the military, everything, personnel clerks to mechanics were all soldiers. In recent years teh military has been making an effort to keep all soldiers deployable. When you sign into a new post the majority of the people you deal with during the inprocessing are civilians. Shortly after 9-11 when all military posts were locked down soldiers were doing all the checkpoint security, contractors have since been brought in so the MP's wouldn't be kept from deploying because they were too busy checking ID's at the gate. In Iraq its the same, basically all the jobs that would be a waste of time for a soldier to have to do are covered by contractors. I have my gripes about some aspects of it but for the most part they are keeping us from doing the shit jobs. I don't think mobilizing a Guard unit to maintain port-a-shitters would be the best use of our military.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #12 February 24, 2007 I kind of agree... we've been outsourcing for years too (MOD-Plods manning sentrry gates etc....) - but outsourcings is s'posed to be cheaper and it really does not look like it is, if you look at the salaries paid. <> - I can think of a few units, where that is exactly the best job for them (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #13 February 24, 2007 <> - I can think of a few units, where that is exactly the best job for them Quote Damnit we agree on something On the part of funds though, the salaries really depend on what you're doing, At my pay grade if I were deployed for a year I think I'd pull in somehwere in the mid 50's, there are some contractors making 6 figures but more often than not those salaries are reserved for the specialized jobs like PSD. Quite a few of the contractors are coming from small countries where 10K a year is rich, these guys are only making 15-20K tops, which to them is great. It's the management types which are mostly former military who make the big bucks, all the little worker bees are making little in comparison to US salaries but to them it's an awesome salary. Weighing all the benifits IMO contracting all these jobs is better in the long run. We probably are paying more overall but think about how the morale of the force would be and what the public outcry would be like if another 125K troops were sent to Iraq to do menial tasks as opposed to creating more jobs.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #14 February 24, 2007 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #15 February 24, 2007 Wonders never ceaseQuote It just so happens the ol' GQ here was looking into contractor jobs after I get out as well Blackwater was offering me a hefty salary to be an armorer. There are higher paying jobs out there but I figured when I get out my gun slingin days will be over, PSD pays great but isn't worth the risk IMOHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #16 February 24, 2007 Good luck... The military never paid brilliantly, but in may case it trained me and put me in a great position. I'll never regret joining up. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #17 February 24, 2007 QuoteDo they really mean that the Contractors are in combat/security roles or are they also covering engineers etc.. ? A large portion of the diplomatic security in Iraq is handled by contractors.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #18 February 24, 2007 QuoteThat's all true, but I wonder how many sell out cheap? If I'm gonna take that risk I need at least 150k/yr and that is still pretty cheap. Some go over for as little as 70k as I understand it. Depends on the contractor, the job, and the location. QuoteNot that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Bottlenecks are easy to create in some of the streets. Some of the contractors may develop patterns that are more difficult to deviate from. That's a major cause. QuoteI just think these guys go over as typical white collar Americans, thinking they can call the police for every infraction, these insurgents play in such a way that the typical apathetic American can't comprehend it; this is not a trip to the European countryside. That perception is not correct. Many of these people are retired foreign service or GS employees as well as ex-military.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #19 February 24, 2007 Not that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Quote It's actually not all that hard to get someone into a situation where this can be done over there. In some places the taffic is so bad that no matter hard you try and leave yourself outs you get stuck, sometimes to the point where you can't open your doors and you'd bee fighting from teh seat of the vehicle. It's uglyHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
shropshire 0 #12 February 24, 2007 I kind of agree... we've been outsourcing for years too (MOD-Plods manning sentrry gates etc....) - but outsourcings is s'posed to be cheaper and it really does not look like it is, if you look at the salaries paid. <> - I can think of a few units, where that is exactly the best job for them (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #13 February 24, 2007 <> - I can think of a few units, where that is exactly the best job for them Quote Damnit we agree on something On the part of funds though, the salaries really depend on what you're doing, At my pay grade if I were deployed for a year I think I'd pull in somehwere in the mid 50's, there are some contractors making 6 figures but more often than not those salaries are reserved for the specialized jobs like PSD. Quite a few of the contractors are coming from small countries where 10K a year is rich, these guys are only making 15-20K tops, which to them is great. It's the management types which are mostly former military who make the big bucks, all the little worker bees are making little in comparison to US salaries but to them it's an awesome salary. Weighing all the benifits IMO contracting all these jobs is better in the long run. We probably are paying more overall but think about how the morale of the force would be and what the public outcry would be like if another 125K troops were sent to Iraq to do menial tasks as opposed to creating more jobs.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #14 February 24, 2007 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #15 February 24, 2007 Wonders never ceaseQuote It just so happens the ol' GQ here was looking into contractor jobs after I get out as well Blackwater was offering me a hefty salary to be an armorer. There are higher paying jobs out there but I figured when I get out my gun slingin days will be over, PSD pays great but isn't worth the risk IMOHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #16 February 24, 2007 Good luck... The military never paid brilliantly, but in may case it trained me and put me in a great position. I'll never regret joining up. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #17 February 24, 2007 QuoteDo they really mean that the Contractors are in combat/security roles or are they also covering engineers etc.. ? A large portion of the diplomatic security in Iraq is handled by contractors.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #18 February 24, 2007 QuoteThat's all true, but I wonder how many sell out cheap? If I'm gonna take that risk I need at least 150k/yr and that is still pretty cheap. Some go over for as little as 70k as I understand it. Depends on the contractor, the job, and the location. QuoteNot that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Bottlenecks are easy to create in some of the streets. Some of the contractors may develop patterns that are more difficult to deviate from. That's a major cause. QuoteI just think these guys go over as typical white collar Americans, thinking they can call the police for every infraction, these insurgents play in such a way that the typical apathetic American can't comprehend it; this is not a trip to the European countryside. That perception is not correct. Many of these people are retired foreign service or GS employees as well as ex-military.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #19 February 24, 2007 Not that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Quote It's actually not all that hard to get someone into a situation where this can be done over there. In some places the taffic is so bad that no matter hard you try and leave yourself outs you get stuck, sometimes to the point where you can't open your doors and you'd bee fighting from teh seat of the vehicle. It's uglyHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
shropshire 0 #14 February 24, 2007 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #15 February 24, 2007 Wonders never ceaseQuote It just so happens the ol' GQ here was looking into contractor jobs after I get out as well Blackwater was offering me a hefty salary to be an armorer. There are higher paying jobs out there but I figured when I get out my gun slingin days will be over, PSD pays great but isn't worth the risk IMOHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #16 February 24, 2007 Good luck... The military never paid brilliantly, but in may case it trained me and put me in a great position. I'll never regret joining up. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #17 February 24, 2007 QuoteDo they really mean that the Contractors are in combat/security roles or are they also covering engineers etc.. ? A large portion of the diplomatic security in Iraq is handled by contractors.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gawain 0 #18 February 24, 2007 QuoteThat's all true, but I wonder how many sell out cheap? If I'm gonna take that risk I need at least 150k/yr and that is still pretty cheap. Some go over for as little as 70k as I understand it. Depends on the contractor, the job, and the location. QuoteNot that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Bottlenecks are easy to create in some of the streets. Some of the contractors may develop patterns that are more difficult to deviate from. That's a major cause. QuoteI just think these guys go over as typical white collar Americans, thinking they can call the police for every infraction, these insurgents play in such a way that the typical apathetic American can't comprehend it; this is not a trip to the European countryside. That perception is not correct. Many of these people are retired foreign service or GS employees as well as ex-military.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #19 February 24, 2007 Not that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Quote It's actually not all that hard to get someone into a situation where this can be done over there. In some places the taffic is so bad that no matter hard you try and leave yourself outs you get stuck, sometimes to the point where you can't open your doors and you'd bee fighting from teh seat of the vehicle. It's uglyHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
shropshire 0 #16 February 24, 2007 Good luck... The military never paid brilliantly, but in may case it trained me and put me in a great position. I'll never regret joining up. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #17 February 24, 2007 QuoteDo they really mean that the Contractors are in combat/security roles or are they also covering engineers etc.. ? A large portion of the diplomatic security in Iraq is handled by contractors.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #18 February 24, 2007 QuoteThat's all true, but I wonder how many sell out cheap? If I'm gonna take that risk I need at least 150k/yr and that is still pretty cheap. Some go over for as little as 70k as I understand it. Depends on the contractor, the job, and the location. QuoteNot that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Bottlenecks are easy to create in some of the streets. Some of the contractors may develop patterns that are more difficult to deviate from. That's a major cause. QuoteI just think these guys go over as typical white collar Americans, thinking they can call the police for every infraction, these insurgents play in such a way that the typical apathetic American can't comprehend it; this is not a trip to the European countryside. That perception is not correct. Many of these people are retired foreign service or GS employees as well as ex-military.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #19 February 24, 2007 Not that I've been there, but I also don't see how these people get into the situations they do. There was an SUV stormed and taken in teh street, were they stopped? You have to have your head on a swivel and keep enough distance in front of you if you have to evade, as you're stopped. Constantly look behind to see if someone is charging, etc. Quote It's actually not all that hard to get someone into a situation where this can be done over there. In some places the taffic is so bad that no matter hard you try and leave yourself outs you get stuck, sometimes to the point where you can't open your doors and you'd bee fighting from teh seat of the vehicle. It's uglyHistory does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0