Selling stuff for Christian ministry

[steveorino 7]

Quote

Quote

I think it comes down to how it is sold and where the proceeds go.

I agree. If it's sold to further the ministery, why not? They also have to pay their employees. That's just reasonable.

But what is the purpose of the tithes & offerings if to not meet budget along with finance ministry?

Here is what I did. I came into a church of about 200 people that had been established for 80 years. They kept asking for fund raisers, and I kept refusing. I believed if everyone would tithe we'd make budget and finance anything we felt was necessary. They agreed. In the next 5 years we grew to 500+ people, with mostly new converts, went on several foreign mission trips and built church buildings in Costa Rica, hired additional staff, did a few necessary building upgrades and repairs, all w/o one fund raiser. I don't think it is all a sin, but much of it is uncessary. It promotes the problem of keep having fund raisers to do what she be done in a unified budget supported by tithers.

steveOrino

[yjumpinoz 0]

I agree about the tithes. I am a steward and looking at the budget of our small church is scary at times. A perfect year would result in a balance of zero. Our budget comes from the offering with a percentage to missions. If there is a special need, hopefully someone will be led to contribute above their normal offering. No fund raisers necessary.

[DSE 5]

So, I'll take a stab at this:
Branding.
The "bake sales" and "Pennies by the Inch" campaigns waged locally go to buy new things for the church, ie; we need a new XXX so the church looks better. I don't see a big problem with that, but I do see a problem being paid to preach.

But the Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copes, Benny Hinns, Big C, Don Tipton,...it's all about branding. Instead of selling you Nike, they sell you a fish Tshirt or wristband to promote their "brand."
Look on the front of your shirt, chances are that at least 70% of those reading this post are wearing a brand of some kind. Maybe it says Perris Skydiving, The Gap, Old Navy, whatever....Jesus needs a brand too, and there are lots of ministers lined up to create it for him. God needs a brand, there are lots of preachers lined up to sell it for him.
Jesus needs money too, right?
Branding. It's the American way. We are who we are based on the brands we choose to associate with. Therefore it's critical that Jesus and God have a brand of their own. I just wish they could decide on just one.
Like "Coke" or "Geico".

[steveorino 7]

Quote

but I do see a problem being paid to preach.

I didn't get paid to preach (I'd do that for free) but I did get paid to pastor.

I believe the workman should be paid his wages, and possibly the outside income (sermon tapes)makes up for a lack of regular income. But when it comes to the mega churches I doubt it.

But again, who am I to judge?

steveOrino

[mikempb 0]

I never thought about the economic side too much with all the new ways the church makes money . I guess I just hoped they did the right thing( Im sure they all didnt do that of course) but the good that "can" come from it is that the new generation is all about novelty, maybe there making too much money if I buy a chris tomlin ( hes a christian musican) ringtone, and shame on them for that.But that teenage kid out there who buys a ringtone,or trinkets every time he/she goes to the mall, can now buy something that is related to god and is cool among his peers. As far as those cake sales well... I dont really like cake!!

[SpeedRacer 1]

I dont' see too much wrong with it.

Think of all those monasteries where they've always sold jam or other farm products, or Belgian Ale or whatever to support the monastery.

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[DSE 5]

I think there is a significant difference between a guy like you being paid to look out for the general community that attends a specific congregation as a "watchman," "counselor," "friend," and someone who has their phone number listed in the book and on-call for emergencies for those that need help for whatever reason, and the Kenneth Copes, Benny Hinn's, etc of the world. You need sustenance no matter what, and if that means having your house, bread, and transport paid so you can be available to your community, there is nothing wrong with that. I see that circumstance going far beyond just "preaching."
Then there are the Mormons, that allow any lay moron to be a high-ranking official in their church. No professional, eclesiastical, nor social training. Just the most popular and pious guy in the branch, ward, or stake. No fucking wonder they have one of the highest rates of pedophilia, rape, suicide, and spouse abuse in Utah, Idaho, and Arizona.

There is a huge difference between being a human being helping others and making a meager living in the process and having gold-plated water taps on the dog house.
Additionally, while I don't at all believe what you believe, you're respectful of the beliefs of others, and that makes you a respectable person. That sort of person is the sort *needed* in the "ministry" if you will, because they're likely non-judgemental in most cases. I've got no problem with someone being compensated for being available as a crying shoulder. Counselors are paid, aren't they?

[DZJ 0]

Quote

Kinda pokes a hole in the theory that providence will provide when you have to sell stuff just to pay the bills. Shouldn't an all powerful god be able to take care of that?

My Dad always says 'God helps those who help themselves'. He's a Buddhist, mind, but I'd say it holds up.

[BIGUN 1,506]

Let's take a different perspective, Steve. Knowing you, I don't think you would be selling things for personal gain as much as being able to keep your church going. So, if selling something allows you to continue to preach and spread "the word;" is that a bad thing?

The ones that piss me off are the Rolex wearing, new lexus drving, $1,000 suit preachers crying help or that with those tithes, their "seed' will reap great things or 20 fold upon them. Look at the "Food for the Children" program. I know for a fact, that's where the money goes.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[gontleman 0]

Quote

Quote

Kinda pokes a hole in the theory that providence will provide when you have to sell stuff just to pay the bills. Shouldn't an all powerful god be able to take care of that?

My Dad always says 'God helps those who help themselves'. He's a Buddhist, mind, but I'd say it holds up.

I've been audience to at least 3 sermons that specifically refute that notion. God helps those who ask for his help and have faith that he will provide.

I don't know who made up that line, but I never bought it when I considered myself a believer, and I was never taught it.

[Michele 1]

Quote

I wonder why we must be motivated to give other than the desire to show love to others.

Because a lot of people don't know how to show love to a veritable stranger, or are very uncomfortable in doing so.

There are three houses of worship that I give to - not financially, but all three have unwed/young/whatever mothers with "crisis pregnancies" within their organization, and are "ministering" to them the way the church/synagogue knows how. One of the ways is accepting donations for these girls/women, and always email a list of "needs and wishes." I always send in crochetted baby blankets, because I love to make them, and have no one to give them to.

Let's change the circumstances a bit, though. What if you saw someone on the street, pushing a dilapidated baby stroller, with a cold looking child sitting in it? Most people would walk on by. They have compassion, but they also don't know how to show it. Should they give the Mom some food? Cash? Approach her at all? Leave her be and say a prayer? How do they express themselves without fear? Most people don't know how, so they say a prayer and walk on by...if they even notice them at all, but that's a different story.

Most houses of worship don't have a program for crisis pregnancies...at least, not a public one. So how do people go about supporting their particular church/synagogue? By donating cash, or buying tapes and/or cds and/or trinkets. And some people don't tithe, but want to give anyway...and this is a way to do it. And another reason is that sometimes, that sermon was wonderful; inspiring. They want it to hear again, and/or share it with someone else.

I see absolutely NO harm in it at all. As Kallend said, no-one's forcing anyone to buy it, and imho, it doesn't cheapen Jesus' message whatsoever while at the same time, provides a way to support those who need the help.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[kamikaze82 0]

Christians = broke and poisoned

¡YA BASTA!