Smart move by Blair

[rushmc 23]

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>According to Billvon, the only reason a person can have to
>'not accept defeat' is because of ego. It just can't be that some judge
>the consequences of losing to be unacceptable.

I don't think you're wrong or right - I don't even think you're in the ballpark. You're asking the wrong question and labeling outcomes with meaningless terms.

This isn't about a "accepting defeat" or "ensuring victory." Those are bits of empty rhetoric to appeal to the sort of mindset that wants "our team to win." The terrorists will never win militarily, because they aren't strong/organized enough. Likewise, we will never win militarily; it's not a military battle we're fighting here, and you can't beat the shit out of someone until they stop hating you.

The only remaining question is how to get out with the minimum additional violence. If we do that, both sides have won. If we stay there until another hundred thousand Iraqis are dead, and another three thousand families will never see their family member come home to the US, everyone loses. Sure, perhaps then the pro-war types could claim "we won!" and make some people who value that feel good about themselves. But it would be a pyrrhic victory at best, one I would prefer to avoid.

I am glad Blair opted to not try for that pyrrhic victory. I hope we can do the same.

Wow, when did you follow the rabbit into the hole??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,132]

>Wow, when did you follow the rabbit into the hole??

Just one meaningless sentence and a little crazy emoticon? What happed to the two sentence meaningless comment with the little crazy emoticon? It's just not like old times any more . . .

[sundevil777 102]

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Just one meaningless sentence and a little crazy emoticon? What happed to the two sentence meaningless comment with the little crazy emoticon? It's just not like old times any more . . .

That was a meaningless post, and you didn't include any emoticons.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 3,132]

Sorry -



How's that?

[GravityJunky 0]

Too bad Bush can't Learn from Blair, he's doing the right thing, all the way, at this point it's internal unrest, civil war, let them hash it out for themselves.

*My Inner Child is A Fucking Prick Too!
*Everyones entitled to be stupid but you are abusing the priviledge
*Well I'd love to stay & chat, But youre a total Bitch! {Stewie}

[rehmwa 2]

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Thanks for making it clear that getting out no matter what the circumstances is all that matters to you.

I don't think it's fair to put "no matter what" in there. I believe that many think getting out now is the right thing to do and that they have reasons for it. Just like the other side has honest and sincere reasons to stay. If southern Iraq is under control, then getting out is the right thing. The wrong part of it is they are moving out completely instead of transferring their support to help clean up the harder to control parts of Iraq.

You're using the equivalent rhetoric of the other side calling "Ego" and "Daddy's War" and "War Mongering for Profit".

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Skyrad 0]

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Reducing an occupation to reduce violence" might well be a good decision.

It worked in Northern Ireland.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Skyrad 0]

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Maybe... just maybe our government is thinking about our own people for a change and not pandering to external influence..


Nahhh.. fat chance.

More likely the troops will redeploy into Afghanistan in larger numbers quite possibly to support a ground invasion of Iran by US forces by opening a diversionary front on the east of Iran or at least making the Iranians split their forces to attempt to protect their borders.
Instead of massing their forces into nice targets the Iraninans should be dispersing the army in the towns and cities to prepare for urban fighting that has proved so costly to the 'Coalition' in Iraq.
If they want to prepare to defend thier motherland the Iranians should be working on urban defences.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[shropshire 0]

<>


Yeap that's what is going to happen according to the beeb

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 2,182]

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<>


Yeap that's what is going to happen according to the beeb

Well, better that they fight the REAL war on terror than the fabricated one.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 3,132]

>Well, better that they fight the REAL war on terror than the fabricated one.

Yeah, I keep hoping we do that.

In 2001, we were attacked by Al Qaeda. Bin Laden had already declared war on the US, and his stated goal was to start a worldwide jihad that pitted muslims against the christian west. He WANTED the sort of power an all-out religious war would give him.

Shortly thereafter, we invaded the country that was harboring Al Qaeda, and just about wiped them out. Any war is a horrible thing, but at least this one served several clear and important purposes:

1. To destroy the organization that attacked the US and killed 3000 americans. They can't do it again if they're all dead.

2. To show other terrorist groups that if you attack the US, you will be obliterated. If that's the result, few other groups will try it.

We had the support of the world in doing this - most people have a vested interest in not seeing organizations like Al Qaeda survive after they commit such a heinous act.

Then we got sidetracked. We took our focus off Al Qaeda and attacked Iraq for reasons that turned out to be false. This did several things:

1. It let Bin Laden and the remnants of Al Qaeda escape to Pakistan, where they are now holed up and rebuilding.

2. It gave Bin Laden his religious war. He has achieved his objective; he can claim that the west is in a religious war with islam, and point to the latest violence in Iraq to prove himself right.

3. It took the pressure off the Taliban. Even now we are expecting a new "spring offensive" from them.

4. It provided a steady stream of new recruits for anti-western terror organizations. Few things are better recruitment tools than "help us defeat the country that killed your son."

5. It ground down US troops and mired them in a place where they could not win (or even fight) a conventional war.

I keep hoping we reverse this mistake, and go after the people who killed thousands of americans on 9/11. That should be our primary goal. I think too many people have forgotten who attacked us six years ago, and we are literally letting them get away with murder. I hope we can adjust our sights before it's too late.

[shropshire 0]

Oh, I agree.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Skyrad 0]

Maybe they should ask me where UBL is

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca