Do u beleave in God

[Royd 0]

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I also read the bible in the light of two models, one it was written or inspired by a divine being and two that it was written by ignorant ancient men without any divine intervention. If you read the bible with this second model in mind you will find it is much more consistent with the facts than the first model.

I'm surprised that Moses could even speak a coherent sentence, let alone chronicle it in such a manner that it could be passed down through centuries of time.

[philh 0]

"I'm surprised that Moses could even speak a coherent sentence, let alone chronicle it in such a manner that it could be passed down through centuries of time"

The fact that story gets passed down through time does not make it true. The Koran has been passed down through time, is that true?
Also no serious biblical scholar, be they theist or not, believes Moses wrote the OT. One particular reason for that is that he dies in it!

[philh 0]

Communism and socialism are economic systems, they are not necesailry godles nor are they religions . They are very bad failed conomic systems but that is not the point. You maybe interestd to learn that many socialists are actualy Christian and believe Christ preahced socialism. You can read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism

[Royd 0]

"I'm surprised that Moses could even speak a coherent sentence, let alone chronicle it in such a manner that it could be passed down through centuries of time"

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The fact that story gets passed down through time does not make it true. The Koran has been passed down through time, is that true?
Also no serious biblical scholar, be they theist or not, believes Moses wrote the OT. One particular reason for that is that he dies in it!

I'm not arguing the semantics of the book.

BigTexan said that these people were ignorant. By the standard of the day, they were learned men.

I'm sure in 300 yrs. a lot of today's high mindedness will be pooh-poohed as tripe.

[Royd 0]

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Communism and socialism are economic systems, they are not necesailry godles nor are they religions . They are very bad failed conomic systems but that is not the point. You maybe interestd to learn that many socialists are actualy Christian and believe Christ preahced socialism. You can read about it here:

Socialism is economic;albiet a bad model.

Communism is established like a religion. Those who refused to bow down and worship Stalin, or Mao, or even today, Kim Jung Ill do not fare well. They set themselves up as the be all, end all.

They also make efforts to crush all other ideologies.

[jcd11235 0]

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Maybe you'd do well to learn what freedom means.

Says the man who believes same sex marriages should not be allowed.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[steveorino 7]

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Maybe you'd do well to learn what freedom means.

Says the man who believes same sex marriages should not be allowed.

As I have said many times. same sex marriage, I'm against on the ideal of what I believe marriage is. I have no issues with same sex civil unions.

How about you, sir, does your freedom allow a man to marry his mom? or his sister, or his dog? No??? Are you against freedom?

steveOrino

[jakee 1,594]

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BigTexan said that these people were ignorant. By the standard of the day, they were learned men.

The standards of the day were pretty fuckin' low.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jcd11235 0]

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How about you, sir, does your freedom allow a man to marry his mom? or his sister, or his dog? No??? Are you against freedom?

To each their own. If they are not hurting anyone else, why should I interfere? Personally, I think laws against bestiality and consensual incest are largely a waste of taxpayers' resources.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[steveorino 7]

at least you are consistant.

steveOrino

[pds 0]

oh my me!
is this thread still alive?!

peep this. funny but true.

namaste, motherfucker.

[jcd11235 0]

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at least you are consistant.

What irony.

You'll forgive me if I don't worry about how I measure up against your moral yard stick. I don't much care what judgmental people think.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[steveorino 7]

I'm not your judge. Do your thing. Marry your mom, sister or dog.

steveOrino

[billvon 3,111]

> I'm not your judge. Do your thing. Marry your mom, sister or dog.

If more people took this attitude I think we'd have a lot less strife out there. Reminds me of the old Voltaire quote - "Think for yourselves and let others enjoy the privilege to do so as well."

[steveorino 7]

Perhaps, but a society w/o laws or moral convictions would not be as favorable as you may think.

I'm not one who cares that much about whether or not gays can marry. I have a defintion of marriage that I think is sound, but I do not believe I need to legislate my convictions.

steveOrino

[philh 0]

"BigTexan said that these people were ignorant. By the standard of the day, they were learned men. "

Perhpas they were, but by our standards they were ignorant. That is what is relevant because many people still believe that this ancient book is a unique source of wisdom. If they were learnned in their own society thats relevant to those people in those times , but if we are being asked to follow them we need to assess whether they were ignorant by our standards and the answer tho that is a clear yes.

Your points about communism may be true but what has this to do with this debate?

[hairyjuan 0]

the laws equal
www.freedomtofascism.com

we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively


wishers never choose, choosers never wish

[billvon 3,111]

>but a society w/o laws or moral convictions would not be as favorable
>as you may think.

?? I'm not in favor of a society with no laws or moral convictions. I am in favor of laws that protect other's life, liberty and property, and in morals that are as good as people can make them. But I see no need to make you follow my morality, even though I consider my morality to be valid.

>I'm not one who cares that much about whether or not gays can marry. I
>have a defintion of marriage that I think is sound, but I do not believe I
>need to legislate my convictions.

It is my hope that people can decide on their own what sort of marriage they want, and what sort of life they want to live. I may disagree with their definitions or actions, but as long as they don't interfere with other people's lives, they are free to make their own mistakes.

[steveorino 7]

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>but a society w/o laws or moral convictions would not be as favorable
>as you may think.

?? I'm not in favor of a society with no laws or moral convictions. .

Sorry, I took your statement (or Volitaire's) to an illogical conclusion.

steveOrino

[georgerussia 0]

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So you think when people lobby and vote they are forcing their views on others.

Isn't it the whole purpose of voting?

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Should children's right activist or animal right's activist not be able to "force" oops, I mean "vote" their conscience?

Nobody so far have said that that forcing their views on others is a bad thing itself. I personally explained my opinion to you several times, but it seems like you ignored it completely.

I have said that you may not force others to do, or not to do something just because it is based on your beliefs, which you cannot prove. Even if you still think this harms society (like not reading the Bible once a day), but cannot prove this harm, you should not _force_ anyone to do it. That's why banning smoking in family reustarants is correct (because it does damage to everyone's health, and it is proven), but banning smoking in your hotel room, if you're there alone or with other smokers, is wrong.

I hope it is clear now.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Communism is established like a religion. Those who refused to bow down and worship Stalin, or Mao, or even today, Kim Jung Ill do not fare well. They set themselves up as the be all, end all.

I have to say your knowledge of communism is close to zero.
The most distinguishing features of (true) communism is lack of private property (common ownership), not bowing to Stalin or Lenin.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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I wanted to find out if skydivers would be open to a ministry for skydivers at boogies. Most were, except the few atheist who wish to deny my personal freedoms.

Could you point out such "denying your personal freedom", for example by provide quotes of "few atheists"? Just want to make sure that you didn't confuse denial with expressing their opinon that they would not be open to this (which was exactly the question you asked for).

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I remember one person saying, "How would you feel about a Satanist having a tent at a boogie next to yours?" Like that was supposed to either anger me or scare me.

No, it doesn't look like that - just the question about one more competitor around. Like different container manufacturers.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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I don't agree with many enviornementalists who don't want me to own a SUV, (or skydive if the truth be known) but I don't resent their right to express their opinions.

But when they express their opinion that you should not skydive in a vote, and it turns into law - just because there is more people who do not skydive, which makes them a majority - what would you say then?

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In other words, go to church if you want, but don't let the teachings of christ effect how you vote, right?

Exactly - because your voting affects everyone, not just you.

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No, I believe marriage is between one man and one woman.
...
As I have said many times. same sex marriage, I'm against on the ideal of what I believe marriage is. I have no issues with same sex civil unions.

So your vote against is based on your (probably incorrect) belief.

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How about you, sir, does your freedom allow a man to marry his mom? or his sister, or his dog? No??? Are you against freedom?

How about allowing a white man to marry a black woman? It was against the definition of marriage for a lot of people - less than 100 years ago.

You again trying to mix things which are banned for a good reason (based on factual evidence), and things based on your pure beliefs. Don't you really see the difference?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Mockingbird 0]

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

[steveorino 7]

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I don't agree with many enviornementalists who don't want me to own a SUV, (or skydive if the truth be known) but I don't resent their right to express their opinions.

But when they express their opinion that you should not skydive in a vote, and it turns into law - just because there is more people who do not skydive, which makes them a majority - what would you say then?

I'd say I better get busy and educate the non-skydivers and change the law. Even given your extreme example, I would not desire to deny the evironmentalists their right to vote their conscience.

steveOrino