Guest #1 February 17, 2007 How Austria [a company, not the country - mh.] Supports Terrorists February 16, 2007: The United States has captured nearly a hundred Austrian (Steyr-Mannlicher) HS50 12.7mm (.50 caliber) sniper rifles in Iraq. These rifles were part of a shipment of 800 sold to the Iran national police in 2005, at a cost of some $20,000 each. The Austrians believed that the Iranians wanted the rifles for use against Afghan and Pakistani drug smugglers. The United States saw the weapons as eventually being used against U.S. troops, and placed sanctions on Steyr-Mannlicher, forbidding it to do any business with the United States military. While Iran has been under an arms embargo for decades, and is currently under pressure to halt development of nuclear weapons, and ballistic missiles to deliver them with, the country does have some legitimate weapons needs. For example, Iranian troops have been fighting an increasingly bloody war with drug smugglers along their border with Afghanistan and Pakistan. This fighting gets particularly nasty because the drug smugglers are from Sunni tribes (usually Pushtun or Baluchi), that often believe the Shia Moslem Iranians are heretics. That makes the fighting about religion, as well as money. The fighting picked up after the Taliban were taken down in late 2001. Since then, the drug business has grown larger, and the smugglers saw Iran as a prime access route to European and Persian Gulf customers, as well as a good market in itself. With so many Iranians rapidly becoming drug addicts, the government sent thousands of troops and police to the Afghan and Pakistani borders, to try and stop the smugglers. This soon turned into an endless battle, as the smugglers would often try and fight their way past Iranian patrols, or even ambush Iranian forces. The smugglers also tended to have better weapons than the Iranians, as well as night vision devices and satellite telephones. Iran makes a lot of its own small arms, but does not have the technical expertise to produce high tech things like .50 caliber sniper rifles, electronic sights for rifles, and other military electronics (ground radars and other sensors). Thus Iran has turned to smuggling and shady deals to get the high tech weapons it wants. Because of the Iranian nuclear weapons program, illegal and legal imports into Iran are closely watched by many intelligence organizations. The United States has slapped sanctions on over a dozen companies caught supplying weapons to Iran. Six of them were Chinese. But Steyr-Mannlicher was providing equipment most likely to end up in the hands of terrorists attacking American troops. Steyr-Mannlicher insisted that the deal was legit. Steyr-Mannlicher says the United States has not asked for serial number information, and that the HS50 may have come from some other source. Steyr-Mannlicher insists it is not at fault, because the Iranian government signed an end-user agreement, promising not to export the weapons. In Iran, the clerics have the final say on all political and military matters. Iranian agents have been regularly caught bringing weapons into Iraq. But Iraqi terrorists have been obtaining weapons from other sources as well. Even when Saddam was in power, there was smuggling, in both directions, across the Iran-Iraq border. Steyr-Mannlicher is even be criticized in Austria for being so naïve about what could happen to the HS50s is sold to Iran. ----------------------------------- Talk about "blood for oil"; only in this case it's someone else's blood. I hope Steyr gets seriously hurt in the wallet for this. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #2 February 17, 2007 If you tend to only gather the information you want to hear you will end up with the opinion you want to have. Now were is the problem with handing over the serial numbers to the company, maybe it will even help the US make a case against Iran if they really did brake the agreement? Until they do, this is just the information spreading that was common in the US prior to the Iraq war. Some information missing in your post: http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=248&L=1If it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #3 February 17, 2007 QuoteIf you tend to only gather the information you want to hear you will end up with the opinion you want to have. Now were is the problem with handing over the serial numbers to the company, maybe it will even help the US make a case against Iran if they really did brake the agreement? Until they do, this is just the information spreading that was common in the US prior to the Iraq war. Some information missing in your post: http://www.steyr-mannlicher.com/index.php?id=248&L=1 Interesting how you conclude that this (your link )debunks his point. Iran is under and internationaly agreed to arms imbargo yet this company sells to Iran and expects them to live up to any agreement? Now, I will concede that some of the facts are still to be presented but come on!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #4 February 17, 2007 It's not what "The Strategy Page" reports, it's how it reports it and the *Conclusions* it jumps to! US forces in Iraq have found rifles of Austrian design. These MAY have been part of a consignment legitimately supplied to Irans Government for police purposes. THEREFORE... "Austria Supports Terrorists!.. Everyone Boycott Austria!" I'm not sure if such amazing leaps contribute toward Global Warming... But I'm pretty sure they DO contribute to Global Dimming. Still... Anyone who wants to take The Strategy Page's assertions seriously can have hours of fun renaming Strudels; "Freedom-Pies" and similar. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #5 February 17, 2007 Quote Interesting how you conclude that this (your link )debunks his point. Iran is under and internationaly agreed to arms imbargo yet this company sells to Iran and expects them to live up to any agreement? Now, I will concede that some of the facts are still to be presented but come on! Let me clarify that i do not think it is such a good idea to give Iran weapons especially war type weapons. I also don't think the statement from the company debunks the whole point, but is adds the information that this weapon can legally be built by anyone may they be in Iran or elsewhere in the world. That is why i think the question is why the serial numbers are not released? Since it is legal is there anybody known to produce this weapon or parts for it? What does the arms embargo on Iran include? Anything from Mace to Nukes or ist it legal to import small arms, or anything for police work? Just keep asking questions before you believe anything, especially if a country tries to make a case for war. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #6 February 17, 2007 QuoteQuote Interesting how you conclude that this (your link )debunks his point. Iran is under and internationaly agreed to arms imbargo yet this company sells to Iran and expects them to live up to any agreement? Now, I will concede that some of the facts are still to be presented but come on! Let me clarify that i do not think it is such a good idea to give Iran weapons especially war type weapons. I also don't think the statement from the company debunks the whole point, but is adds the information that this weapon can legally be built by anyone may they be in Iran or elsewhere in the world. That is why i think the question is why the serial numbers are not released? Since it is legal is there anybody known to produce this weapon or parts for it? What does the arms embargo on Iran include? Anything from Mace to Nukes or ist it legal to import small arms, or anything for police work? Just keep asking questions before you believe anything, especially if a country tries to make a case for war. Franco Agreed!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #7 February 17, 2007 I agree. The serial numbers should be compared. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrancoR 0 #8 February 17, 2007 QuoteI agree. The serial numbers should be compared. mh . Now that is a rare ocasion. Three people on Speakers Corner agree on something. FrancoIf it does not cost anything you are the product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #9 February 17, 2007 QuoteI agree. The serial numbers should be compared. Supposing for a moment that the numbers do match... That the weapons recovered in Iraq are in fact part of the consignment from Steyr. Does that make either Steyr OR The Austrian Government responsible?.. Or does the blame lie in Iran? Then again, Austria gave the world Arnie! Reason enough, I think, to say "Sod-'Em"! Mike. (Just off to get himself a slice of ApfelStrudel Freedom Pie) Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #10 February 17, 2007 Quote Iran makes a lot of its own small arms, but does not have the technical expertise to produce high tech things like .50 caliber sniper rifles, electronic sights for rifles, and other military electronics (ground radars and other sensors). Thus Iran has turned to smuggling and shady deals to get the high tech weapons it wants. Because of the Iranian nuclear weapons program, illegal and legal imports into Iran are closely watched by many intelligence organizations... Does anyone else notice a contradiction between the two highlighted sections of this paragraph?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #11 February 17, 2007 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #12 February 17, 2007 Does anyone notice what a complete pile of horseshit Mark's 'Strategy page' is? 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #13 February 17, 2007 QuoteDoes anyone notice what a complete pile of horseshit Mark's 'Strategy page' is? I have noticed that, now you come to mention it.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #14 February 17, 2007 Glad somebody has. 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,611 #15 February 17, 2007 Quote Glad somebody has. I hadn't. Anything with an official sounding name just has to be reliable, doesn't it?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
