SkyDekker 1,465
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rushmc 23
QuoteThere are some pretty big economic minds quoted above. I think I'll believe them over you.
And there are many other big minds (as you put it) that argue the way.
I do know this for sure. Everytime taxes have been cut significantly the economy has grown and tax revenues have grown (percentage wise) History is hard to argue with too.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Gawain 0
QuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Seems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
Since the tax cut here in the US, tax receipts are setting records here too.
So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!
SkyDekker 1,465
But you can't just look at revenue alone. You also have to look at debt and expenses. When you take that into consideration, picture isn't as rosey.
rushmc 23
Agreed, but you also have to look at the major reasons tooQuoteBut you can't just look at revenue alone. You also have to look at debt and expenses. When you take that into consideration, picture isn't as rosey.
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rehmwa 2
QuoteThe real solution is to reduce government power to spend. But someone tried that once with a defunct little document called The Constitution, so maybe even this approach isn't all it's cracked up to be.
OMG the world must be coming to and end today!
I found Narci has just said something I agree with completely.
When narci is serious, he posts some of the best comments. Don't be surprised.
That was the best simple comment of the thread so far.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kallend 2,219
QuoteQuoteQuote
The revenue "surge" over the last 2 years still hasn't paid for the shortfall in 2001-2004. The growth rate in tax revenues during the 1990s was considerably higher than the growth rate in revenues since Bush took office.
So, all of this means the gov is not recieving record receipts??? Are you reading the posts??
The FLAW in your reasoning is that you ass-ume the revenues we are seeing are due to Bush's tax cuts. They are not. According to the CBO, AT MOST 32% of the revenue loss due to tax rate cuts is recovered in the resulting economic stimulation. In 2005 the CBO estimated that the net revenue loss due to 10% across the board tax cuts would amount to over $1.5Trillion over a 10 year period.
And the reason the rising deficit is relevant is that adding to the debt by reducing tax rates causes extra debt service costs which have be accounted for in an accurate analysis.
And thd FLAW in your reasoning is you ASS-ume tax cuts do not stimulate economic growth
Not my reasoning, the reasoning of the US Treasury and the CBO. However, I'm sure you know more than they do. And if you had bothered to check, they DID take economic growth into account. At best, growth makes up just over 30% of the shortfall due to rate reduction (the median estimate from several models is much less than 30%).
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
kallend 2,219
Quote
I do know this for sure. Everytime taxes have been cut significantly the economy has grown and tax revenues have grown (percentage wise) History is hard to argue with too.
You are very good at making "always" or "every time" claims without a shred of supporting data.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Zipp0 1
QuoteQuote
I do know this for sure. Everytime taxes have been cut significantly the economy has grown and tax revenues have grown (percentage wise) History is hard to argue with too.
You are very good at making "always" or "every time" claims without a shred of supporting data.
He's always right.
Every time I read one of his posts it's confirmed.
--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuote
I do know this for sure. Everytime taxes have been cut significantly the economy has grown and tax revenues have grown (percentage wise) History is hard to argue with too.
You are very good at making "always" or "every time" claims without a shred of supporting data.
Quote
and you are good at twisting facts to make out of context points. Does that make us even?"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Quote
I also find it funny that anyone beleives corps or companies pay taxes.
I think it was yesterday I saw a news story about Merck having to pay the IRS over 2 billion dollars in a settlement relating to an offshore company that held their patents and received payments from Merck for them.
I believe the article mentioned that it was the 2nd-largest settlment ever, falling just a few hundred million dollars short of the record, held by another drug company.
I agree, corps don't pay taxes.
kallend 2,219
QuoteQuoteQuote
I do know this for sure. Everytime taxes have been cut significantly the economy has grown and tax revenues have grown (percentage wise) History is hard to argue with too.
You are very good at making "always" or "every time" claims without a shred of supporting data.Quote
and you are good at twisting facts to make out of context points. Does that make us even?
Did you look inthe mirror today?...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Zipp0 1
Quote
Did you look inthe mirror today?
PWN3D!!!!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pwn3d
--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.
QuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Now, that's what I call progressive.QuoteSeems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
It is progressive because it progresses past the modern ideal of punishing those who do things well.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Lucky... 0
QuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Seems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
Raising taxes to pay for what we spend is not the same as making taxes exhorbitant, don't you guys work in moderation?
Lucky... 0
QuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Now, that's what I call progressive.QuoteSeems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
Cutting taxes and increasing spending progressive? Nah, we've always spent more than we've taken in since the ealy 1800's with teh exception of a few breaks, same ole thing. Progressive would be to cut spending and raise taxes, pay down the debt and watch the dollar grow, that's progressive.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Seems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
The US is doing it now. Record reciepts for how many months?
Exactly, Bush's acomplishments are measured in weeks and months, any chimp can win 1 lap, try winning a race. Clinton had sustained economic success over several years, so don't go cast Bush as any kind of winner until he can do this for sometime and he will never undo the damage he's done over the 1st 6 years.
Lucky... 0
QuoteThat's becuase wecould have an economy that equals the rest of the world combined and the far left would not be happy and all and kick and scream because it was done the wrong way (there was a republican sitting as president)
The last time a Repub has done anything ok with the debt is Eisenhower, most of us weren't even alive then. Wind your clock.
Lucky... 0
QuoteI also find it funny that anyone beleives corps or companies pay taxes. To them it is a cost of doing business which is passed on to the customer.
To a degree, but it forces them to come off money they would otherwise stock away, stagnating the economy. Furthermore, if a business can't stay competitive, they have to either go out of business or operate at a loss. Funny how you guys refuse to look at recent history and use them as shining examples of success. Perhaps it's due to their being no recent success, going back 26 years.
QuoteSo, who really pays the taxes.
Middle class.
QuoteGov spending is the problem today. 1/7th of the current budget is discresionary spending. Just under 1/5th is for the military. The rest goes to "entitlements". What a mess
Which is less than most other countries, so what's your point? Most other countries spend virtually all of their tax revenue on social services rather than match th rest of the world dollar for dollar on military spending. Funny, they think it's all about the people, what a bunch of fools.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Seems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
The US is doing it now. Record reciepts for how many months?
Funny how we're geting ever deeper in debt, isn't it?
Repubs look at a microcosm and call it representational
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Seems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
The US is doing it now. Record reciepts for how many months?
And the federal deficit is in GREAT shape, as is the trade deficit.
Oh, wait.
What does the deficit have to do with the fact that tax revenues have been increasing?
The deficit is an annual accounting of the overall economy. The debt is a grand total of the economy and complete spending scheme. Wait until you actually have a year where the bragging point is that the annual deficit is neutral b4 you even start to consider anything valuable has transpired. Going from 400B in the hole to 200B in the hole is no bragging point unless you're Bush.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Seems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
The US is doing it now. Record reciepts for how many months?
And the federal deficit is in GREAT shape, as is the trade deficit.
Oh, wait.
So, that changes the fact the gov is recieving record reciepts??
You're a Republican, so you must watch NASCAR!
I like it too. Anywa, if a guy came from 20 down and led a lap, that might be worth a mention, but if he fell to 30 back any success would be considered luck or circumstance, perhaps cars pitted, etc. Wait until and if Bush can actually break even for a year, he still will have doubled the exhausting rate of increase of Regan/Bush when all is said and done and teh net value will be inheriting a 5.5T debt and slamming it to over 10T, so this shortlived current success is really nothing in teh grand scheme. And Bush's horrible economy that required the fed reserve to lower rates to 45-year lows resulted in banks qualifying people higher, sellers adapting and driving house costs to double, now we have that housing fiasco to deal with.
Set a medium term bragging point, not a short lived damage control before you brag too much.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHmm. So if people are forced to pay exhorbitant taxes, they will go elsewhere where the taxes are lower? Hmmm.
Seems that there may be a lesson to be learned with this. I.e., governments can actually collect more money by lowering taxes. The Netherlands did it.
The US is doing it now. Record reciepts for how many months?
Funny how we're geting ever deeper in debt, isn't it?
Again, way off point
How so? The debt is the grand tally of performance. Are you that guy who wins one corner or one lap, loses by gobs and brags that one lap? Meaningless, it's about long-term, sustained performance.
Lucky... 0
QuoteThe real solution is to reduce government power to spend. But someone tried that once with a defunct little document called The Constitution, so maybe even this approach isn't all it's cracked up to be.
OMG the world must be coming to and end today!
I found Narci has just said something I agree with completely.
Well your 3 stooges aven't figured it out and when a 4th runs, you will fall in behind him and if he wins, still sing the same song as the debt goes vertical.
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