kallend 2,219 #101 February 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe middle classes trying to put kids through college are definitely suffering. Yes. That is why there is financial aid available. Student loans, grants, etc. My parents could not afford to send me to college or law school, so I found a way to do both of them. I ahve found that slmost ALL adults have this option. Student loans. The government even subsidizes interest on loads of them. . Have you looked recently at the criteria for federal financial aid? Middle classes are, for all practical purposes, ineligible.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #102 February 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteOne fact about taxes and corporations: Corporations never "pay taxes" in the end result. This amounts to overhead which always, always, gets passed into their end-product costs to their respective customers. The money still passes through the corporate channel to the "tax collector", but the source of that money always comes from the end-user/customer. I don't aggre with you, as businesses might then be forced to reduce other costs, like huge CEO salaries. Either way, even if you are right, this edistribution allows for money to circulate and be distributed to the poor who would otherwise suffer. Redistribution of wealth is a crock, and it's already happening. More than half the federal taxes in this country are paid by the richest 10%. Nearly 30% paid by the richest 1%. The poorest of the poor don't pay taxes and use the majority of failing social programs that the rich already pay for. QuoteHey, we're in a country where the rich fought tooth and nail to refuse federal minimum wage increasses to just 7 bucks an hour, I think speaks volumes of your beloved rich. Hell, it was so pathetic that many sttaes strted passing state minimums due to this admins corrupt nature and refusal to do the right thing..... just pathetic. You're confusing the government and "liberal" definition of "rich". A small business owner making $150,000/year, employing as few as 5 people, is considered "rich". An established business owner might employ 25 people. This is not the "mega-wealthy" we're talking about here. The Fortune 10 don't employ a huge amount of hourly workers, and those that are non-exempt, are paid well-above the minimum wage because most of it is skill labor. Let's say I'm a small business owner (representing the overwhelming majority of businesses in the US economy), which is the model that this is based on. I have run a narrow profit business like a gas station. The station is open 24 hours a day, and I have three minimum wage employees per shift. My taxable wages at $5.15/hr (non-subsidized) are $370/day, $11,100/month. Thanks to this increase to the mandatory minimum, my payroll expenses increase to (at $7.25/hr), $522/day, $15,700/day. That's 30% in two years, roughly 15x the rate of inflation. That's $55,000 per year. That's a high-paying job in corporate America, except it's funding unskilled labor. Now, that's just wages, that doesn't include social security taxes that the employer much MATCH to the employees' deductable wage base. As a small business, all of the sudden, and given the volatility of the product I sell, I can now only afford two employees. $348/day, $10,400/month with two employees. Now my payroll expenses are back in line with my business environment. If I'm really good, I can reduce my stations' product pricing by a penny or two now as well. I'm not saying this is the end of the world, but to say that it's a "simple adjustment" or "simple greed" is obtuse. Our markets are remarkable at adjusting, but you can mark my words that there will be griping if the unemployment claims go up in the near term, or if the Fed has to adjust interest rates to combat the inflation that will ensue.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,219 #103 February 18, 2007 Quote Redistribution of wealth is a crock, and it's already happening. More than half the federal taxes in this country are paid by the richest 10%. Nearly 30% paid by the richest 1%. . Ever hear of the "Willy Sutton's Law"?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #104 February 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe middle classes trying to put kids through college are definitely suffering. Yes. That is why there is financial aid available. Student loans, grants, etc. My parents could not afford to send me to college or law school, so I found a way to do both of them. I ahve found that slmost ALL adults have this option. Student loans. The government even subsidizes interest on loads of them. . Have you looked recently at the criteria for federal financial aid? Middle classes are, for all practical purposes, ineligible. Here's a rundown on general eligibility: http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/faq003.htm To be eligible to receive federal student aid, you must meet certain requirements. You must: --Be a U.S. citizen or eligible non-citizen --Have a valid Social Security number (unless you're from the Republic of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of Palau) --Comply with Selective Service registration, if required (see www.sss.gov for more information) --Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED) Certificate or pass an approved ability-to-benefit (ATB) test --Be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program at a school that participates in the federal student aid programs Also: --You must not owe a refund on a federal grant or be in default on a federal student loan --You must have financial need (except for unsubsidized Stafford Loans) --You must not have certain drug convictions Yeah, the requirements are brutal... All you gotta do is not do drugs, and graduate high-school, register for select service, and be accepted to a school... ...oh the calamity...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #105 February 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteRedistribution of wealth is a crock, and it's already happening. More than half the federal taxes in this country are paid by the richest 10%. Nearly 30% paid by the richest 1%. Ever hear of the "Willy Sutton's Law"? Yes. I'm not disputing that. I am simply advocating that there shouldn't be an entitlement attitude about it.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,219 #106 February 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe middle classes trying to put kids through college are definitely suffering. Yes. That is why there is financial aid available. Student loans, grants, etc. My parents could not afford to send me to college or law school, so I found a way to do both of them. I ahve found that slmost ALL adults have this option. Student loans. The government even subsidizes interest on loads of them. . Have you looked recently at the criteria for federal financial aid? Middle classes are, for all practical purposes, ineligible. Here's a rundown on general eligibility: http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/faq003.htm To be eligible to receive federal student aid, you must meet certain requirements. You must: --Be a U.S. citizen or eligible non-citizen --Have a valid Social Security number (unless you're from the Republic of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of Palau) --Comply with Selective Service registration, if required (see www.sss.gov for more information) --Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED) Certificate or pass an approved ability-to-benefit (ATB) test --Be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program at a school that participates in the federal student aid programs Also: --You must not owe a refund on a federal grant or be in default on a federal student loan --You must have financial need (except for unsubsidized Stafford Loans) --You must not have certain drug convictions Yeah, the requirements are brutal... All you gotta do is not do drugs, and graduate high-school, register for select service, and be accepted to a school... ...oh the calamity... You appear to have conveniently OMITTED the most critical criterion. How is NEED defined? THAT is what excludes the middle class, courtesy of repeated redefinitions by GOP administrations.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,219 #107 February 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteRedistribution of wealth is a crock, and it's already happening. More than half the federal taxes in this country are paid by the richest 10%. Nearly 30% paid by the richest 1%. Ever hear of the "Willy Sutton's Law"? Yes. I'm not disputing that. I am simply advocating that there shouldn't be an entitlement attitude about it. How do you suggest our spendthrift government should raise money without going after the places where the money is to be found? How much will the government raise by placing collecting boxes in homeless shelters?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #108 February 18, 2007 QuoteYou appear to have conveniently OMITTED the most critical criterion. How is NEED defined? THAT is what excludes the middle class, courtesy of repeated redefinitions by GOP administrations. http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/publications/student_guide/2006-2007/english/fsamission.htm According to this, $74B distributed annually to 10M students. They process 14M applications. Browsing through the site, it appears that while cumbersome, they attempt to be as helpful as possible. I've not found the measurements they use to "determine financial need" and "expected family contribution" etc.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #109 February 18, 2007 QuoteYou appear to have conveniently OMITTED the most critical criterion. How is NEED defined? THAT is what excludes the middle class, courtesy of repeated redefinitions by GOP administrations. You realize that this is for subsidized loans only. "Need" has little to do with private loans - just the federally funded ones, Also, if the kid's parents make less than $50k per years, the kid will probably qualify for federal aid. The sources of funding are out there, professor. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #110 February 18, 2007 QuoteLocal univ tuition has increased 85% since your pres took office, making the payback much higher. Almost as much as it did while Clinton was in office. I know that mine more than doubled while he was in office. Good thing I got that scholarship. QuoteThe prob with that is that we become a classist and even caste system with that mentality I think we become a caste system without that mentality. I'm the one forwarding the idea that people can move between classes. You can move yourself up to a higher tax bracket - others cannot. Others, however, are very good at moving you to a lower place. When society becomes a burden for individuals, the individuals tire out. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #111 February 18, 2007 Tuition - not here, it increased maybe 20% over 8 years of Clinton. What univ did you attend during Clinton years? QuoteI think we become a caste system without that mentality. Unfortunately it has become protocol, unspoken protocol as many negative things for the US have. QuoteI'm the one forwarding the idea that people can move between classes. It sounds nice, but it is an antiquation notion for most. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #112 February 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat does the deficit have to do with the fact that tax revenues have been increasing? The deficit is an annual accounting of the overall economy. The debt is a grand total of the economy and complete spending scheme. Did you come up with this all by yourself? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
