Lucky... 0
Is anyone still stupid enough to believe that the Repubs are for worker's rights?
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Lucky..., in Speakers Corner
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rehmwa 2
QuoteAgain, this is meaningless since we have removed unions from this arg, at least temporarily, explain teh 3 non-union issues and the Repubs fight for worker's rights.
you've tried to anyway
but since the original post was a link to a union/privacy article, I can see why they want to keep that on topic. The right to vote without repercussions/intimidation from either organized labor OR the corporate management is a pretty big deal to most. Maybe they keep bringing it back because it's important to them rather than just diversion from your diversion.
If I was you, I'd admit it backfired on you and start a new thread on your new arguments.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
sundevil777 102
QuoteBeing more affraid of unions over the company is like being more affraid of criminals over cops.
Cops have far more reaching power than do criminals, and the company has farmore reaching power than does the union.
Wrong.
Why do you think it is such a hard decision for people to cross a picket line, even if they aren't members of the union that is on strike? It is because they fear for their safety, their lives, and the threat of damage to personal property. You've had members of this forum tell you of physical threats, I know it happened when the Machinist union at Boeing went on strike. It doesn't have to come as an order from the union management, of course they're not going to be so stupid as to give orders to do violence. The individual members take it upon themselves to do it, on behalf of the union and their brothers, just like it has been done for generations. That is the reality, whether you admit it or not.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
DaVinci 0
QuoteMy professional interactions with cops, which have spanned years, are more convincing to me than a flowery story where 1 union guy strongarmed you
So you just assume I lied? Nice.
So your personal stories about bad cops = ALL cops bad.
My personal story about Unions = me being a liar.
QuoteEither way, I have posted a mountain of data that is just ignired
You do that ALL the time. Anyway it was not ignored, it has been answered several times. But since you dont like the answer you just ignore it.
See you are saying that VOTING would be bad, but just filling out a card would be good.
Others (including me) have said that just filling out a card will encourage people to make choices without really thinking about it, and the Unions will use scare tacticts.
I fail to see how you could object to a vote. All of your fears could be applied to people who fill out the cards as well.
QuoteIf you guys had an idea how the scientific approach worked
You NEVER use any scientific methods. You use personal events ALL the time...Want proof?
"My professional interactions with cops, which have spanned years, are more convincing to me than a flowery story where 1 union guy strongarmed you. "
QuoteQuote
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Total BS, I like getting my paychecks. The COMPANY, not a union made them possible.
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Silly me, and here I thought the worker made them happen, but what do I know?
Clearly not much about economics.
Unions do not create jobs, business do. Without companies you do not have jobs. Companies can exist without Unions, Unions cannot exist without companies.
DaVinci 0
QuoteThis vague, I really want to address it, post citations and show me what you're taling about.
Done it before, but I'll do it again.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2484653#2484653
The last President to kill a raise in min wage was CLINTON.
The Issue was on the floor and the two sides could not agree. Congress voted 282-143 to increase the Federal Minimum wage a dollar. HR3846, which later became HR3081. Republicans wanted the increase to take three years, Democrats wanted it done in two. Republicans said OK, two but wanted tax cuts to help small business absorb the extra cost, Democrats called it a deal breaker. Clinton said he would VETO any bill that had tax cuts in it, so both bills died in Congress.
So they could have rasied Min wage under Clinton, but refused.
Also notice who would support a min wage increase with some provisions?
"I strongly encourage the House to support this combined minimum wage increase and small business tax relief," Bush said in a statement following the Senate vote.
Also the Senate voted 94-3 to support min wage increases WITH tax breaks...Are there only 3 Repubs in the Senate?
DaVinci 0
This I love:
"Why can't we do just one thing for minimum wage workers, no strings attached, no giveaways for the powerful?" asked Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., a leading sponsor of the bill.
Congress has voted to give themselves pay raises over the last nine years totaling over $30,000. Thats more than $15 an hour for a 40-hour week, 52 weeks a year.
"Why can't we do just one thing for minimum wage workers, no strings attached, no giveaways for the powerful?" asked Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., a leading sponsor of the bill.
Congress has voted to give themselves pay raises over the last nine years totaling over $30,000. Thats more than $15 an hour for a 40-hour week, 52 weeks a year.
Royd 0
First, sitting on your ass, running your mouth isn't work, and second, I doubt if it's a 40 hr. wk. very often. It sure isn't 52 wks. a year.QuoteCongress has voted to give themselves pay raises over the last nine years totaling over $30,000. Thats more than $15 an hour for a 40-hour week, 52 weeks a year.
kallend 2,150
QuoteFirst, sitting on your ass, running your mouth isn't work, and second, I doubt if it's a 40 hr. wk. very often. It sure isn't 52 wks. a year.QuoteCongress has voted to give themselves pay raises over the last nine years totaling over $30,000. Thats more than $15 an hour for a 40-hour week, 52 weeks a year.
How much do you think a US Senator should be paid?
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
QuoteHow much do you think a US Senator should be paid?
minimum wage
but they should get all the merchandising they can from sale of their action figures
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Royd 0
Congress has voted to give themselves pay raises over the last nine years totaling over $30,000. Thats more than $15 an hour for a 40-hour week, 52 weeks a year.
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First, sitting on your ass, running your mouth isn't work, and second, I doubt if it's a 40 hr. wk. very often. It sure isn't 52 wks. a year.
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I would also put some serious restrictions on the retirement package that they receive unless they have been there for twenty years.
They also have to pay social security and draw that at retirement age unless they are are willing to give the rest of us the opportunity at the same package that they have.
After all, aren't they supposed to be servants of the people?
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First, sitting on your ass, running your mouth isn't work, and second, I doubt if it's a 40 hr. wk. very often. It sure isn't 52 wks. a year.
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I'll be generous and give them$100,000 a year. They have to cover all expenses out of that money, rent, food, and travel, just like people in the real world.QuoteHow much do you think a US Senator should be paid?
I would also put some serious restrictions on the retirement package that they receive unless they have been there for twenty years.
They also have to pay social security and draw that at retirement age unless they are are willing to give the rest of us the opportunity at the same package that they have.
After all, aren't they supposed to be servants of the people?
kallend 2,150
QuoteCongress has voted to give themselves pay raises over the last nine years totaling over $30,000. Thats more than $15 an hour for a 40-hour week, 52 weeks a year.
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First, sitting on your ass, running your mouth isn't work, and second, I doubt if it's a 40 hr. wk. very often. It sure isn't 52 wks. a year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'll be generous and give them$100,000 a year. They have to cover all expenses out of that money, rent, food, and travel, just like people in the real world.QuoteHow much do you think a US Senator should be paid?
I would also put some serious restrictions on the retirement package that they receive unless they have been there for twenty years.
They also have to pay social security and draw that at retirement age unless they are are willing to give the rest of us the opportunity at the same package that they have.
After all, aren't they supposed to be servants of the people?
Well, I would consider Senators rather like the board of directors of the nation. A nation whose budget runs into the $Trillions.
I know lots of people in the "real world" that make well over $100k, and have their travel etc. paid for too, by their companies. Especially true of company directors, even of small companies.
I think your "real world" may be a little unreal.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 3,120
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>Unless you knwo some real moderate Repubs, t ehy despise all that you listed.
I think that's a mistake we make sometimes here. Real world people are NOT like the people here. Most of them are moderates.
I think that's a mistake we make sometimes here. Real world people are NOT like the people here. Most of them are moderates.
DaVinci 0
QuoteHow much do you think a US Senator should be paid?
How about the same as the Average income in the US? Thats about 45 grand a year. Also they should not get a super cool retirement package. They should have to use SS.
I also think there should be term limits.
Now, same question to you. How much should the get paid in your opinion?
Do you think it is fait that over the last 9 years they have given themselves raises that almost equal the average persons income?
Royd 0
How much do you think a US Senator should be paid?
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Hey Lucky, are you out there? Man of the little people, what do you think?QuoteHow about the same as the Average income in the US? Thats about 45 grand a year. Also they should not get a super cool retirement package. They should have to use SS.
I also think there should be term limits.
Now, same question to you. How much should the get paid in your opinion?
Do you think it is fait that over the last 9 years they have given themselves raises that almost equal the average persons income?
QuoteWell, I would consider Senators rather like the board of directors of the nation. A nation whose budget runs into the $Trillions.
I know lots of people in the "real world" that make well over $100k, and have their travel etc. paid for too, by their companies. Especially true of company directors, even of small companies..
How many of those people work at companies that have operated at a loss every year for the last 35+ years?
Regarding Congress member's salary - it's not that big of a deal. Campaign finance and term limits much more pressing.
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteWell, I would consider Senators rather like the board of directors of the nation. A nation whose budget runs into the $Trillions.
I know lots of people in the "real world" that make well over $100k, and have their travel etc. paid for too, by their companies. Especially true of company directors, even of small companies..
How many of those people work at companies that have operated at a loss every year for the last 35+ years?
Oh, the airlines.
CEOs and directors of airlines make big bucks and expect their companies to be bailed out by the public...
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
QuoteI would also put some serious restrictions on the retirement package that they receive unless they have been there for twenty years.
Why? Pensions are a thing of the past. They should pay into social security, perhaps have some kind of 401k matching from their emplyers, etc.
Just like all the rest of us have to save for our retirement. I think they can do that at $100K/year for 20 years or more.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Lucky... 0
Quotebut since the original post was a link to a union/privacy article, I can see why they want to keep that on topic.
Sure, I have no prob with that, but Willard wanted to eliminate them from teh equation, saying that they don't neccessarily lead to worker rights, I want them included. But then you have to address all of those other union-related issues with data.
QuoteThe right to vote without repercussions/intimidation from either organized labor OR the corporate management is a pretty big deal to most. Maybe they keep bringing it back because it's important to them rather than just diversion from your diversion.
OK, sure and we have to weigh that against the right to organize unimpeded. It wasn't my diversion, I just got used to Willard insisting the union issue was just some wild opinion, so I omitted it to reveal the 3 major Republican fuckings of labor that have no union connection. Perhaps you can explain how these are not fuckings to labor from Republicans:
- OT Law
- Erg Bill
- Min Wage Bill
QuoteIf I was you, I'd admit it backfired on you and start a new thread on your new arguments.
Nothing backfired, just guys like you running from the union issues and the 3 Repub gifts. As well, commentators adding nothing but trying to impeach the individual, not the issue(s).
DaVinci 0
QuoteNothing backfired, just guys like you running from the union issues and the 3 Repub gifts.
Just like you keep running from the fact that in was the Dems that prevented the Min wage law from being passed years ago but keep including it as a bad thing Repubs did?
Lucky... 0
QuoteWhy do you think it is such a hard decision for people to cross a picket line, even if they aren't members of the union that is on strike?
Now you're speaking for people crossing picket lines. Since neither of us can do that, let's look at the drop in unionization and the successful union busting and we can see that it isn't hard for people to cross union lines. If it were, these union's strikes would be successful.
QuoteIt is because they fear for their safety, their lives, and the threat of damage to personal property.
Again, speaking for others.
QuoteYou've had members of this forum tell you of physical threats, I know it happened when the Machinist union at Boeing went on strike.
Yea, that was credible and it was 1 if it even happened. I can tell you stories from management, but I choose to deal with larger sample sizes.
QuoteIt doesn't have to come as an order from the union management, of course they're not going to be so stupid as to give orders to do violence.
Management doesn't work that way, the get the courts tofuck all dissenters.
QuoteThe individual members take it upon themselves to do it, on behalf of the union and their brothers, just like it has been done for generations. That is the reality, whether you admit it or not.
There is union violence, at least from union members. When was the last time? Can you cite union violence? Is it daily or occassional? Is it fabricated?
I don't mind talking about union violence, as rare as it is, but the thread is about Republicans fucking labor.
This is meaningless in the debate as to whether Reoublican politicians fuck workers or not. I realize it's easier than explaining the 3 leg acts, and I am fascilitating your diversion from that. Even Willard has acknowledged that Repubs dislike unions, I think it's obvious that majopr businesses operate off that same platform or for some reason they fight union drives with their life and do what thye can to but unions once thney get established in a co.
So, ok, the fucking company would buy the union drivers lunch, which explains why union reps aren't allowed in co property.
So even if we pretend that comanies welcome unions with open arms, explain how the non-union legislative acts by the Repugs do anything but fuck workers:
- Killed min wage incr
- Killed the Erg Bill
- Drove the OT Law down our throats until it passed
This 10-page thread has boiled down to this, I've even pretended that companies want to give worker's rights and that unions have no positive effect on employee's rights to get this set of questions answered, so explain how these acts have helped workers and their intent by the Repubs was to help workers.
All I've heard is:
- Keeps businesses rich so they keep open and provide worker's jobs.
Don't throw in the union voting privacy, Willard, even tho he acknowledges Repubs hate unions, he wants it taken out of the equation so I did and we're down to this - quit playing hide the sausage and reason how these acts have helped workers.
Again, this is meaningless since we have removed unions from this arg, at least temporarily, explain teh 3 non-union issues and the Repubs fight for worker's rights.
As I read it, the unions wanted signed ballots or a petition to act in leiu of voting, as teh Dems, wow I don't mean that the dems and the unions have the same agenda, no way, sorry Wllard, but the Dems have had enough of fixed elections ot last a lifetime.
If you have cards and know teh number of workers in a plant, there is a finite # of cards required and there can be no fix. If there is an election by secret ballot, the count can be fixed. When we get the Nazi maggots out of power in 08 things will change, so enjoy your version of paradise
Being more affraid of unions over the company is like being more affraid of criminals over cops.
Cops have far more reaching power than do criminals, and the company has farmore reaching power than does the union. It's a goodies, I know I'm a success in taht you dislike it.
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