warpedskydiver 0 #1 February 13, 2007 95TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY State of Illinois 2007 and 2008HB0873 Introduced 2/7/2007, by Rep. Edward J. Acevedo SYNOPSIS AS INTRODUCED: 720 ILCS 5/24-1.8 new 720 ILCS 5/24-1.9 new Amends the Criminal Code of 1961. Provides that 90 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act, it is unlawful for any person within this State to knowingly manufacture, deliver, sell, purchase, or possess or cause to be manufactured, delivered, sold, purchased, or possessed a semi-automatic assault weapon, an assault weapon attachment, any .50 caliber rifle, or .50 caliber cartridge. Provides that beginning 90 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act, it is unlawful for any person within this State to knowingly manufacture, deliver, sell, purchase, or possess or cause to be manufactured, delivered, sold, purchased, or possessed a large capacity ammunition feeding device. Provides that these provisions do not apply to a person who possessed a prohibited weapon, device, or attachment before the effective date of this amendatory Act if the person has provided proof of ownership to the Department of State Police within 90 days after the effective date of this amendatory Act. Provides that on or after the effective date of this amendatory Act, such person may transfer such device only to an heir, an individual residing in another state maintaining that device in another state, or a dealer licensed as a federal firearms dealer. Specifies penalties for violations. Provides exemptions. Provides that the provisions of the Act are severable. Effective immediately. LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b CORRECTIONAL BUDGET AND IMPACT NOTE ACT MAY APPLY FISCAL NOTE ACT MAY APPLY A BILL FOR HB0873 LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 AN ACT concerning criminal law. 2 Be it enacted by the People of the State of Illinois, 3 represented in the General Assembly: 4 Section 5. The Criminal Code of 1961 is amended by adding 5 Sections 24-1.8 and 24-1.9 as follows: 6 (720 ILCS 5/24-1.8 new) 7 Sec. 24-1.8. Manufacture, possession, delivery, sale, and 8 purchase of semi-automatic assault weapons, assault weapon 9 attachments, .50 caliber rifles, and .50 caliber cartridges. 10 (a) Definitions. In this Section: 11 (1) "Semi-automatic assault weapon" means: 12 (A) any of the firearms or types, replicas, or 13 duplicates in any caliber of the firearms, known as: 14 (i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies 15 Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models); 16 (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries 17 UZI and Galil; 18 (iii) Beretta AR-70 (SC-70); 19 (iv) Colt AR-15; 20 (v) Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and 21 FNC; 22 (vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12; 23 (vii) Steyr AUG; HB0873 - 2 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 2 (viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9, and TEC-22; 3 and 4 (ix) any shotgun which contains its ammunition 5 in a revolving cylinder, such as (but not limited 6 to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; 7 (B) a semi-automatic rifle that has an ability to 8 accept a detachable magazine and has any of the 9 following: 10 (i) a folding or telescoping stock; 11 (ii) a pistol grip or thumbhole stock; 12 (iii) a shroud that is attached to, or 13 partially or completely encircles the barrel, and 14 that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with 15 the non-trigger hand without being burned; or 16 (iv) a fixed magazine that has the capacity to 17 accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition; 18 (C) a semi-automatic pistol that has an ability to 19 accept a detachable magazine and has any of the 20 following: 21 (i) a folding, telescoping, or thumbhole 22 stock; 23 (ii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially 24 or completely encircles the barrel, and that 25 permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the 26 non-trigger hand without being burned; HB0873 - 3 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 (iii) an ammunition magazine that attaches to 2 the pistol outside of the pistol grip; 3 (iv) a fixed magazine that has the capacity to 4 accept more than 10 rounds of ammunition; 5 (v) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more 6 when the pistol is unloaded; or 7 (vi) a semi-automatic version of an automatic 8 firearm; 9 (D) a semi-automatic shotgun that has any of the 10 following: 11 (i) a folding or telescoping stock; 12 (ii) a pistol grip or thumbhole stock; 13 (iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 14 rounds; or 15 (iv) an ability to accept a detachable 16 magazine. "Semi-automatic assault weapon" does not 17 include: 18 (A) any firearm that: 19 (i) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever, 20 or slide action; 21 (ii) is an "unserviceable firearm" or has been 22 made permanently inoperable; or 23 (iii) is an antique firearm; 24 (B) any air rifle as defined in Section 1 of the 25 Air Rifle Act. 26 (2) "Assault weapon attachment" means any device HB0873 - 4 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 capable of being attached to a firearm that is specifically 2 designed for making or converting a firearm into any of the 3 firearms listed in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of this 4 Section. 5 (3) "Antique firearm" has the meaning ascribed to it in 6 18 U.S.C. Section 921 (a)(16). 7 (4) ".50 caliber rifle" means a centerfire rifle 8 capable of firing a .50 caliber cartridge. The term does 9 not include any antique firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. 10 Section 921 (a)(16), any shotgun including a shotgun that 11 has a rifle barrel, or a muzzle-loader used for "black 12 powder" hunting or battle re-enactments. 13 (5) ".50 caliber cartridge" means a cartridge in .50 14 BMG caliber, either by designation or actual measurement, 15 that is capable of being fired from a centerfire rifle. The 16 term ".50 caliber cartridge" does not include any 17 memorabilia or display item that is filled with a permanent 18 inert substance or that is otherwise permanently altered in 19 a manner that prevents ready modification for use as live 20 ammunition or shotgun ammunition with a caliber 21 measurement that is equal to or greater than .50 caliber. 22 (b) Except as provided in subsections (c) and (d), 90 days 23 after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 95th 24 General Assembly, it is unlawful for any person within this 25 State to knowingly manufacture, deliver, sell, purchase, or 26 possess or cause to be manufactured, delivered, sold, HB0873 - 5 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 purchased, or possessed, a semi-automatic assault weapon, an 2 assault weapon attachment, any .50 caliber rifle, or .50 3 caliber cartridge. 4 (c) This Section does not apply to a person who possessed a 5 weapon or attachment prohibited by subsection (b) before the 6 effective date of this amendatory Act of the 95th General 7 Assembly, provided that the person has provided proof of 8 ownership to the Department of State Police within 90 days 9 after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 95th 10 General Assembly as required by law. On or after the effective 11 date of this amendatory Act of the 95th General Assembly, such 12 person may transfer such weapon or attachment only to an heir, 13 an individual residing in another state maintaining that weapon 14 in another state, or a dealer licensed as a federal firearms 15 dealer under Section 923 of the federal Gun Control Act of 16 1968. 17 (d) This Section does not apply to or affect any of the 18 following: 19 (1) Peace officers as defined in Section 2-13 of this 20 Code and retired peace officers not otherwise prohibited 21 from receiving a firearm, in possession of a semi-automatic 22 assault weapon, assault weapon attachment, or .50 caliber 23 rifle transferred to the retired peace officer by his or 24 her law enforcement agency upon retirement. 25 (2) Wardens, superintendents, and keepers of prisons, 26 penitentiaries, jails, and other institutions for the HB0873 - 6 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 detention of persons accused or convicted of an offense. 2 (3) Members of the Armed Services or Reserve Forces of 3 the United States or the Illinois National Guard, while in 4 the performance of their official duties or while traveling 5 to or from their place of duty. 6 (4) Manufacture, transportation, or sale of weapons, 7 attachments, or ammunition to persons authorized under 8 subdivisions (1) through (3) of this subsection to possess 9 those items. 10 (5) Possession of a semi-automatic assault weapon, an 11 assault weapon attachment, a .50 caliber rifle, or a .50 12 caliber cartridge at events taking place at the World 13 Shooting and Recreational Complex at Sparta, only while 14 engaged in the legal use of the firearm or attachment, or 15 while traveling to or from this location if the items are 16 broken down in a non-functioning state, or are not 17 immediately accessible, or are unloaded and enclosed in a 18 case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other 19 container. 20 (6) Possession of any firearm if that firearm is 21 sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee and by 22 USA Shooting, the national governing body for 23 international shooting competition in the United States, 24 but only when the firearm is in the actual possession of an 25 Olympic target shooting competitor or target shooting 26 coach for the purpose of storage, transporting to and from HB0873 - 7 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 Olympic target shooting practice or events if the firearm 2 is broken down in a non-functioning state, is not 3 immediately accessible, or is unloaded and enclosed in a 4 case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other 5 container, and when the Olympic target shooting competitor 6 or target shooting coach is engaging in those practices or 7 events. For the purposes of this paragraph (6), "firearm" 8 is defined in Section 1.1 of the Firearm Owners 9 Identification Card Act. 10 (7) Possession of a semi-automatic assault weapon, an 11 assault weapon attachment, a .50 caliber rifle, or a .50 12 caliber cartridge only for a hunting use expressly 13 permitted under the Wildlife Code, or while traveling to or 14 from a location authorized for such hunting use under the 15 Wildlife Code if the items are broken down in a 16 non-functioning state, or are not immediately accessible, 17 or are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying 18 box, shipping box, or other container. 19 (8) Manufacture, transportation, possession, sale, or 20 rental of blank-firing semi-automatic assault weapons and 21 .50 caliber rifles or the weapons respective attachments to 22 persons authorized or permitted, or both authorized and 23 permitted to acquire and possess such weapons for the 24 purposes of rental for use solely as props for a motion 25 picture, television, or video production or entertainment 26 event. HB0873 - 8 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 (e) Sentence. 2 (1) A person who knowingly manufactures, delivers, 3 sells, purchases, or possesses or causes to be 4 manufactured, delivered, sold, purchased, or possessed a 5 semi-automatic assault weapon in violation of this Section 6 commits a Class 3 felony for a first violation and a Class 7 2 felony for a second or subsequent violation or for the 8 possession or delivery of 2 or more of these weapons at the 9 same time. 10 (2) A person who knowingly manufactures, delivers, 11 sells, purchases, or possesses or causes to be 12 manufactured, delivered, sold, purchased, or possessed in 13 violation of this Section an assault weapon attachment 14 commits a Class 4 felony for a first violation and a Class 15 3 felony for a second or subsequent violation. 16 (3) A person who knowingly manufactures, delivers, 17 sells, purchases, or possesses or causes to be 18 manufactured, delivered, sold, purchased, or possessed in 19 violation of this Section a .50 caliber rifle commits a 20 Class 3 felony for a first violation and a Class 2 felony 21 for a second or subsequent violation or for the possession 22 or delivery of 2 or more of these weapons at the same time. 23 (4) A person who knowingly manufactures, delivers, 24 sells, purchases, or possesses or causes to be 25 manufactured, delivered, sold, purchased, or possessed in 26 violation of this Section a .50 caliber cartridge commits a HB0873 - 9 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 Class A misdemeanor. 2 (720 ILCS 5/24-1.9 new) 3 Sec. 24-1.9. Manufacture, possession, delivery, sale, and 4 purchase of large capacity ammunition feeding devices. 5 (a) As used in this Section: 6 "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means: 7 (1) a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar 8 device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily 9 restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of 10 ammunition; or 11 (2) any combination of parts from which a device 12 described in paragraph (1) can be assembled. 13 "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" does not 14 include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and 15 capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition 16 or any device that has been made permanently inoperable. 17 (b) Except as provided in subsections (c) and (d), it is 18 unlawful for any person within this State, beginning 90 days 19 after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 95th 20 General Assembly, to knowingly manufacture, deliver, sell, 21 purchase, or possess or cause to be manufactured, delivered, 22 sold, purchased, or possessed, a large capacity ammunition 23 feeding device. 24 (c) This Section does not apply to a person who possessed a 25 device prohibited by subsection (b) before the effective date HB0873 - 10 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 of this amendatory Act of the 95th General Assembly, provided 2 that the person has provided proof of ownership to the 3 Department of State Police within 90 days after the effective 4 date of this amendatory Act of the 95th General Assembly as 5 required by law. On or after the effective date of this 6 amendatory Act of the 95th General Assembly, such person may 7 transfer such device only to an heir, an individual residing in 8 another state maintaining that device in another state, or a 9 dealer licensed as a federal firearms dealer under Section 923 10 of the federal Gun Control Act of 1968. 11 (d) This Section does not apply to or affect any of the 12 following: 13 (1) Peace officers as defined in Section 2-13 of this 14 Code and retired peace officers not otherwise prohibited 15 from receiving a firearm, in possession of a large capacity 16 ammunition feeding device transferred to the retired peace 17 officer by his or her law enforcement agency upon 18 retirement. 19 (2) Wardens, superintendents, and keepers of prisons, 20 penitentiaries, jails, and other institutions for the 21 detention of persons accused or convicted of an offense. 22 (3) Members of the Armed Services or Reserve Forces of 23 the United States or the Illinois National Guard, while in 24 the performance of their official duties or while traveling 25 to or from their place of duty. 26 (4) Manufacture, transportation, or sale of large HB0873 - 11 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 capacity ammunition feeding devices to persons authorized 2 under subdivisions (1) through (3) of this subsection to 3 possess those items. 4 (5) Possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding 5 device at events taking place at the World Shooting and 6 Recreational Complex at Sparta, only while engaged in the 7 legal use of the device, or while traveling to or from this 8 location if the items are broken down in a non-functioning 9 state, or are not immediately accessible, or are unloaded 10 and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, 11 or other container. 12 (6) Possession of any large capacity ammunition 13 feeding device if that large capacity ammunition feeding 14 device is sanctioned by the International Olympic 15 Committee and by USA Shooting, the national governing body 16 for international shooting competition in the United 17 States, but only when the large capacity ammunition feeding 18 device is in the actual possession of an Olympic target 19 shooting competitor or target shooting coach for the 20 purpose of storage, transporting to and from Olympic target 21 shooting practice or events if the device is broken down in 22 a non-functioning state, is not immediately accessible, or 23 is unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, 24 shipping box, or other container, and when the Olympic 25 target shooting competitor or target shooting coach is 26 engaging in those practices or events. HB0873 - 12 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 (7) Possession of a large capacity ammunition feeding 2 device only for a hunting use expressly permitted under the 3 Wildlife Code, or while traveling to or from a location 4 authorized for such hunting use under the Wildlife Code if 5 the items are broken down in a non-functioning state, or 6 are not immediately accessible, or are unloaded and 7 enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or 8 other container. 9 (e) Sentence. A person who knowingly manufactures, 10 delivers, sells, purchases, or possesses or causes to be 11 manufactured, delivered, sold, purchased, or possessed in 12 violation of this Section a large capacity ammunition feeding 13 device capable of holding more than 17 rounds of ammunition 14 commits a Class 3 felony for a first violation and a Class 2 15 felony for a second or subsequent violation or for possession 16 or delivery of 2 or more of these devices at the same time. A 17 person who knowingly manufactures, delivers, sells, purchases, 18 or possesses or causes to be manufactured, delivered, sold, 19 purchased, or possessed in violation of this Section a large 20 capacity ammunition feeding device capable of holding more than 21 10 rounds but not more than 17 rounds of ammunition commits a 22 Class 4 felony for a first violation and a Class 3 felony for a 23 second or subsequent violation or for possession or delivery of 24 more than one of these devices at the same time. 25 Section 97. Severability. The provisions of this Act are HB0873 - 13 - LRB095 04526 RLC 24579 b 1 severable under Section 1.31 of the Statute on Statutes. 2 Section 99. Effective date. This Act takes effect upon 3 becoming law. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #2 February 13, 2007 This proposed law is so fucked it is rediculous and yetthe media is in love with it. Herr Daley must be in heaven BTW there is NO GRANDFATHER CLAUSE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #3 February 13, 2007 It really is a very serious matter. Last year around this time all of the Illinois manufacturers got together in Springfield to talk to legislators about the statewide impact of such a ban and to agree to fight any legislation of this type. Many of our local elected and appointed officials went with to express that we're good people, good companies,and good neighbors. We got a lot of support from Republicans and Democrats alike, but some of that support left Springfield with legislators who lost in the November elections. A lot of what is in the bill is copied directly from other states' laws. Some of it is peculiar to Illinois. Regardless of where the language comes from, it's bad for Illinois, not just gun-owners or the firearms industry. Part of what we tried to point out has been the significant economic impact that a ban would have on all of Illinois. As an industry, we all commited to leaving the state if a ban goes through...and that is still the plan of every Illinois manufacturer that I know of. I'm sure that there will also be dealers and distributors who leave as well...but that appears to be one of the desired poliical ends of those engineering the ban. The side effect (that we pointed out but that those pushing the ban don't really want to hear) is the tremendous economic impact outside of the direct "gun industry". There are significant machine shops in Illinois that make parts used throughout the industry, including for manufacturers outside the state. There are the smaller machine shops used as sub-contractors by the industry in Illinois. They're all somewhat firearms related. But what about the businesses that count on the industry's business that have nothing to do with firearms manufacturing or possession? The gas station down the road where we fill up the company trucks, buy munchies at break and lunch? The doughnut shop where we get a few dozen for meetings? The car dealerships where we by both company and personal vehicles? How about the local UPS and trucking hubs? How about the print shops that do boxes, manuals, promotional materials, etc...? The guys who plows our lot on snowy days like today? The local building trades who get the call anytime one of the companies in our industry expends its operations,needs more space, etc...? The local law enforcement agencies and departments who have been beneficiaries of our products, services, training capabilities, etc...? How about city and county governments? Loss of tax revenues will have significant impacts on them. In this area, in a couple of communities, firearms manufacturers are the largest employers, either singly or collectively. The big problem is that we all survived, even thrived, during the federal AWB, and the folks pushing the ban don't understand (or possibly don't want to understand) the difference between it (the AWB) and what they are pushing through now. We cannot stay in business in Illinois if the ban passes...whether that is this year, or the next, or the next. If we, as an industry, have to leave Illinois, the jobs go with us. If we can find suitable locations in nearby states, most emplyees, but unfortunately not all, will be able to stay with us. They can live (albeit without their guns) in the same homes, their kids can go to the same schools, their spouses keep the same jobs, etc...But for those who can't make even a nearby move, or if we have to go further afield, there are all sorts of stresses placed on them and their families. On the bright side, if/when Illinois tells us they don't want us, there are plenty of states that do. We constantly get offers of assistance from all over the country (okay, not everywhere) that would love to have an influx of decently paying manufacturing jobs and everything else that goes with them. Housing sales. Associated business revenues. Infusion of capital. Everything else that Illinois seems so willing to give up. Sorry if ths sounds like a rant. We've done everything we can to communicate the point to whomever will listen, and even those who won't. It's very frustrating for everyone in our industry in Illinois and for many of our in-state and out-of-state friends; vendors and customers alike. Steve/Rock River Arms US Military Contractor, and small arms supplier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justinb138 0 #4 February 13, 2007 Lawmakers doing what they do best, spending taxpayer money working on laws that will accomplish absolutely nothing. You'd think that people would have figured out that criminals, by definition, break laws. It's already illegal to shoot people, what difference is passing a law banning these guns going to make? I'd be interested to see the crime statistics involving "assault weapons" in the state. I'd bet than less than .01% of gun crime involved the weapons listed in the bill, if not less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #5 February 13, 2007 And they would be illegally possed by a felon in many cases. I can provide many examples of felons with Full Auto's They even have started stealing them from police cars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #6 February 13, 2007 I see a sudden market for .55cal weapons developing in IL . . . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #7 February 13, 2007 They are banned as firearms by federal law and governed as Destructive Devices. just like bombs and grenades Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #8 February 13, 2007 >They are banned as firearms by federal law and governed as Destructive Devices. Ah. In that case, .495 could be a good caliber! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #9 February 13, 2007 Bill re-read the act Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #10 February 13, 2007 As someone living in Illinois, who doesn't know anyone that owns a gun, I am just curious if there are numbers available as far as estimated economic impact. Im not taking a side, I am just curious to know if this effect has been calculated or if it is just speculative. I don't know how large the gun market is, but my guess is that it's substantial -- i would just like to know exactly HOW substantial it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #11 February 13, 2007 Billions, did you read the post by Steve of Rock River Arms? Oh and that's besides the tens of thousands of jobs lost Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #12 February 13, 2007 Wow. Note to self-apply for the Florida bar, not the IL Bar.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 February 13, 2007 QuoteAs someone living in Illinois, who doesn't know anyone that owns a gun, I am just curious if there are numbers available as far as estimated economic impact. From my perspective, it doesn't matter how big or how small the impact is. That factor is irrelevant to the righteousness of this proposal. Being only a small impact wouldn't make it any more right. The bottom line is that it's not going to stop criminals, and it punishes the law-abiding. And that makes it wrong, period. If this thing passes, for the last gun owner to flee Illinois, please bring the flag out with you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #14 February 13, 2007 Well stated. Thanks John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeflyChile 0 #15 February 13, 2007 Yeah, I did... it mentioned example but no actual studies. That's why I asked if there was any sort of concrete study about it. Again, I'm just curious, not trying to state a pro-gun or anti-gun point of view. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #16 February 13, 2007 Last year the Illinois Firearm Manufacturers went to the governor with studies and real world data on how much Illinoistan stands to lose, as well as the fact that this law has no constitutional merit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #17 February 13, 2007 I will try and find the news from last years meeting. I hope I can find the actual info and not some crappy ass coverage of it by the SChitcago media Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #18 February 14, 2007 Howis that not un constitutional?When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #19 February 14, 2007 Hi Randall, Please bear with me for a considered response to this. Every time I read the second sentence of this proposal I keep falling off my chair laughing! This is actually quite painful when it keeps happening! Is this really Illinois, AMERICA!!? If not, then please stop hurting me. If so, then do the proponents of this law have ANY concept of American culture and history? Do the proponents of this law have ANY concept of the present situation in America?.. Or do they REALLY believe that they're going to turn America into "Britain" with a bit of legal paper!!? Ludicrous. Mike. Edited to add: I was going to explain why this proposal would be unworkable in America and how it would harm the very people it was intended to protect... But I fell off my chair again thinking about the proposal! Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #20 February 14, 2007 QuoteThey are banned as firearms by federal law and governed as Destructive Devices. They're subject to a $200 transfer tax, registration, and other administrative hassles. Sales of new examples to civillians is allowed so large-bore rifles haven't suffered the artificial price inflation that goes with legal machine guns. Firearms enthusiasts own and shoot 20mm Lahti anti-tank cannons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #21 February 14, 2007 QuoteHowis that not un constitutional? the US Constitution affirms that our rights are endowed by our creator and therefore are inalieble. Now our foul state has determined that the US Constitution is a piece off paper to which politicians wipe thier collective asses with. It is unconstitutional to pass a law that violates the Bill of Rights Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #22 February 14, 2007 You are correct Sir Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misaltas 0 #23 February 14, 2007 Quotethe US Constitution affirms that our rights are endowed by our creator and therefore are inalieble. The assertion that certain rights (among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) are 'unalienable' is from the Declaration of Independence from Great Britain and its King's Tyranny, not the US Constitution. I didn't see the part where the Constitution declares the right to bear arms as one endowed to us by our Creator. But I'm with you 100% on the rest of it.Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #24 February 14, 2007 Simply put our Constitution is derived from preceding documents and one that is included in that is the Declaration of Independance. Ask Abraham Lincoln. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misaltas 0 #25 February 14, 2007 Not really. One broke us free from Britain, the other described how we would form our own government. The fathers said the right to break free from British tyranny was a right given to us by our Creator. But the rights described in the Constitution are rights we as Americans agreed to give to each other.Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites