Gov Controled Minimum Wages Good?

lawrocket · February 14, 2007

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It's the government's money.

Wrong. Bills are merely "legal tender." They aren't the government's checks or the government's products. Cash was intended to unify things.

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I believe that if you are under conviction by what is written in Proverbs, you should reach into your pocket and help someone out.

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Maybe I do. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the religious right.

Hmmm. I donated about $2,500 last year. To people I WANTED to help. Had they taken the money from me without me giving it to them, I would have pressed charges. Get the difference?

There is a difference between opening your wallet and having your wallet opened. A very big difference. So, if you've got the cash and you think it should be given away, then give it. And don't expect others to follow you, for they may disagree.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

mnealtx · February 14, 2007

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I am not arguing with the proverbs. It's just that when you are speaking of the wealthy, and then quoting factors that speak of "oppression" I want to know how you make the leap between objecting to an increase in minimum wage or not wanting to pay more taxes and oppressing the poor.

Those proverbs speak of oppression. I want to know how it is oppression.

I was simply making the point that many times those of us who claim to be Christians, and against things like abortion, are the same people who oppose legislation that would benefit the poor, mainly because it might require them to get by on a little less.

Then maybe you'd better tailor that tax you're wetting your pants over to your liberal friends, since the conservatives WELL out-do them on donations to charity.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

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Maybe you could also try reading the history of the investigation of the My Lai massacre, find the name of the divisional investigating officer, and what he wrote in his report.

I guess expecting you to provide a link that specifically addresses this is out of the question.

Here ya go, Sunshine. Have a good read:

Hersh, Seymour M. (1972). Cover-up: the Army's secret investigation of the massacre at My Lai 4. Random House. ISBN 0-394-47460-0.

This is a link that specifically addresses the question? I guess none of those 168,000 links you tried to pawn off as proof just didn't measure up,... so now you're going with "Here's a book (that you might find at the library). Go research it yourself."

Yeah - you've really made your case.

You know.... if Colin Powell really was involved in covering up the My Lai massacre, it would be pretty easy to find a direct quote, from a credible source, on the web. I've essentially asked you for as much about ten times. You, in turn, have resorted to diversions just about every time.

I have to wonder why a well respected, published scholar as yourself would stoop to such low brow tactics.

warpedskydiver · February 14, 2007

Nearly anyones perception of reality can be tainted by personal feelings.

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

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I am not arguing with the proverbs. It's just that when you are speaking of the wealthy, and then quoting factors that speak of "oppression" I want to know how you make the leap between objecting to an increase in minimum wage or not wanting to pay more taxes and oppressing the poor.

Those proverbs speak of oppression. I want to know how it is oppression.

I was simply making the point that many times those of us who claim to be Christians, and against things like abortion, are the same people who oppose legislation that would benefit the poor, mainly because it might require them to get by on a little less.

Charity and compassion under duress, through government mandated extortion at the end of a gun kind of miss the point.

kallend · February 14, 2007

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I am not arguing with the proverbs. It's just that when you are speaking of the wealthy, and then quoting factors that speak of "oppression" I want to know how you make the leap between objecting to an increase in minimum wage or not wanting to pay more taxes and oppressing the poor.

Those proverbs speak of oppression. I want to know how it is oppression.

I was simply making the point that many times those of us who claim to be Christians, and against things like abortion, are the same people who oppose legislation that would benefit the poor, mainly because it might require them to get by on a little less.

Then maybe you'd better tailor that tax you're wetting your pants over to your liberal friends, since the conservatives WELL out-do them on donations to charity.

Of course, tax-deductible charities include such things as symphony orchestras, opera companies, art museums, and other favorites where the very wealthy get their names put up on the benefactor's roll of honor. I don't see many homeless people attending the Chicago Symphony.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

kallend · February 14, 2007

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Maybe you could also try reading the history of the investigation of the My Lai massacre, find the name of the divisional investigating officer, and what he wrote in his report.

I guess expecting you to provide a link that specifically addresses this is out of the question.

Here ya go, Sunshine. Have a good read:

Hersh, Seymour M. (1972). Cover-up: the Army's secret investigation of the massacre at My Lai 4. Random House. ISBN 0-394-47460-0.

This is a link that specifically addresses the question? I guess none of those 168,000 links you tried to pawn off as proof just didn't measure up,... so now you're going with "Here's a book (that you might find at the library). Go research it yourself."

Yeah - you've really made your case.

You know.... if Colin Powell really was involved in covering up the My Lai massacre, it would be pretty easy to find a direct quote, from a credible source, on the web. I've essentially asked you for as much about ten times. You, in turn, have resorted to diversions just about every time.

I have to wonder why a well respected, published scholar as yourself would stoop to such low brow tactics.

Web sites are NOT acceptable references in any form of scholarship. Surely you knew that. You wanted an authoritative reference - you got one. Go to your local library.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

narcimund · February 14, 2007

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... {stuff deleted} ...

Two people are in an elevator.

One person farts.

Everyone knows who did it.

First Class Citizen Twice Over

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

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Nearly anyones perception of reality can be tainted by personal feelings.

One key thing for me is to actually try to get the story right... to try and be objective about what actually occurred... instead of tweaking it a bit here and a bit there... to give a completely different (read - dishonest) representation of what occurred.

Was Colin Powell in charge of investigating a letter claiming atrocities by US soldiers... a letter that did not address the My Lai incident and made no mention of it?

Yes.

Did he do a half-assed job?

It certainly looks that way.

Was he involved in trying to coverup the My Lai massacre?

No fucking way!!!

kallend · February 14, 2007

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I am not arguing with the proverbs. It's just that when you are speaking of the wealthy, and then quoting factors that speak of "oppression" I want to know how you make the leap between objecting to an increase in minimum wage or not wanting to pay more taxes and oppressing the poor.

Those proverbs speak of oppression. I want to know how it is oppression.

I was simply making the point that many times those of us who claim to be Christians, and against things like abortion, are the same people who oppose legislation that would benefit the poor, mainly because it might require them to get by on a little less.

Charity and compassion under duress, through government mandated extortion at the end of a gun kind of miss the point.

Can we take it from your comment that you disagree with sections 7 and 8 of Article I of the US Constitution, as well as with Amendment XVI?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

Zipp0 · February 14, 2007

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Then maybe you'd better tailor that tax you're wetting your pants over to your liberal friends, since the conservatives WELL out-do them on donations to charity.

You better go ahead and prove that one there cheif.

The taxes are coming, like it or not. Better they help Americans than pay for a pointless war.

As to the idea of taking your money by force - it's called living in a society. Don't like it - head for the mountains like Kazinski.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

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Web sites are NOT acceptable references in any form of scholarship. Surely you knew that. You wanted an authoritative reference - you got one. Go to your local library.

You know - if you ever just own up or put up, in one of these situations, I will be amazed. Seriously.

It seems like your standard MO, when you get called on your statements, is to merely post something... anything... to get the monkey off your back.

Smarmy.

kallend · February 14, 2007

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Nearly anyones perception of reality can be tainted by personal feelings.

One key thing for me is to actually try to get the story right... to try and be objective about what actually occurred... instead of tweaking it a bit here and a bit there... to give a completely different (read - dishonest) representation of what occurred.

Was Colin Powell in charge of investigating a letter claiming atrocities by US soldiers... a letter that did not address the My Lai incident and made no mention of it?

Yes.

Did he do a half-assed job?

It certainly looks that way.

Was he involved in trying to coverup the My Lai massacre?

No fucking way!!!

Making progress.

The My Lai massacre occured in March 1968.
Powell was charged by his commanding general with investigation reports of atrocities committed in his division. He reported in Dec 1968 that everything was hunky-dory (my paraphrase). He wrote "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

The massacre did not become known to the public until March 1969 when another soldier in the division finally blew the whistle.

Either

(1) Major Powell was totally incompetent, or
(2) he was a team player and tried to whitewash his division's sorry record.

Now we KNOW he's not incompetent, and we know (from his speech to the UN about Iraq's WMDs) that he is willing to take one for his team.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

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Quote
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I was simply making the point that many times those of us who claim to be Christians, and against things like abortion, are the same people who oppose legislation that would benefit the poor, mainly because it might require them to get by on a little less.

Charity and compassion under duress, through government mandated extortion at the end of a gun kind of miss the point.

Can we take it from your comment that you disagree with sections 7 and 8 of Article I of the US Constitution, as well as with Amendment XVI?

Absolutely not. Contributing my fair share for the general welfare of the country as a whole is not the same as being required to fund social programs.

rehmwa · February 14, 2007

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liberal friends, since the conservatives WELL out-do them on donations to charity.

It doesn't count in their book unless they get to choose the charities for you.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

Quote
Quote
Quote
Nearly anyones perception of reality can be tainted by personal feelings.

One key thing for me is to actually try to get the story right... to try and be objective about what actually occurred... instead of tweaking it a bit here and a bit there... to give a completely different (read - dishonest) representation of what occurred.

Was Colin Powell in charge of investigating a letter claiming atrocities by US soldiers... a letter that did not address the My Lai incident and made no mention of it?

Yes.

Did he do a half-assed job?

It certainly looks that way.

Was he involved in trying to coverup the My Lai massacre?

No fucking way!!!

Making progress.

The My Lai massacre occured in March 1968.
Powell was charged by his commanding general with investigation reports of atrocities committed in his division. He reported in Dec 1968 that everything was hunky-dory (my paraphrase). He wrote "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

The massacre did not become known to the public until March 1969 when another soldier in the division finally blew the whistle.

Either

(1) Major Powell was totally incompetent, or
(2) he was a team player and tried to whitewash his division's sorry record.

Now we KNOW he's not incompetent, and we know (from his speech to the UN about Iraq's WMDs) that he is willing to take one for his team.

He investigated the claims by a soldier who was not at My Lai!!! He had no direct involvement in investigating My Lai.

Being a team player doesn't implicate him in any My Lai coverup.

Ever heard of the Guilt by Association fallacy?

rehmwa · February 14, 2007

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Of course, tax-deductible charities include such things as symphony orchestras, opera companies, art museums, and other favorites where the very wealthy get their names put up on the benefactor's roll of honor. I don't see many homeless people attending the Chicago Symphony.

I'm sure all your left wing heros like Barbara Streisand, a Baldwin Brother or two, Rosie O'Donnell might also have a museum wing, opera season, etc sponsored in their names.

AND

I'd bet you a homeless person might just visit a Carnegie library, or some hospital wing, or a shelter, or a mobile medical van on occasion that was sponsored voluntarily (and not via government mandated tax thinned out via the beaurocracy/beaueaucracy/bureaucracy/burockracy the red tape government thingy)

but local and personal charity, of course, doesn't count

Edit: I'd say the local hospital van that's driven about and is used to allow doctors to give physicals to pregnant women does a lot more direct good for a community than federally sponsored welfare for drug addicts. "Local and Personal" can make change, impersonal and mass produced can only create entitlement and perpetuate bad situations

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

kallend · February 14, 2007

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Nearly anyones perception of reality can be tainted by personal feelings.

One key thing for me is to actually try to get the story right... to try and be objective about what actually occurred... instead of tweaking it a bit here and a bit there... to give a completely different (read - dishonest) representation of what occurred.

Was Colin Powell in charge of investigating a letter claiming atrocities by US soldiers... a letter that did not address the My Lai incident and made no mention of it?

Yes.

Did he do a half-assed job?

It certainly looks that way.

Was he involved in trying to coverup the My Lai massacre?

No fucking way!!!

Making progress.

The My Lai massacre occured in March 1968.
Powell was charged by his commanding general with investigation reports of atrocities committed in his division. He reported in Dec 1968 that everything was hunky-dory (my paraphrase). He wrote "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

The massacre did not become known to the public until March 1969 when another soldier in the division finally blew the whistle.

Either

(1) Major Powell was totally incompetent, or
(2) he was a team player and tried to whitewash his division's sorry record.

Now we KNOW he's not incompetent, and we know (from his speech to the UN about Iraq's WMDs) that he is willing to take one for his team.

He investigated the claims by a soldier who was not at My Lai!!! He had no direct involvement in investigating My Lai.

he was charged with investigating non-specific atrocities and brutality by his division.

warpedskydiver · February 14, 2007

Quote
Quote
Quote
Nearly anyones perception of reality can be tainted by personal feelings.

One key thing for me is to actually try to get the story right... to try and be objective about what actually occurred... instead of tweaking it a bit here and a bit there... to give a completely different (read - dishonest) representation of what occurred.

Was Colin Powell in charge of investigating a letter claiming atrocities by US soldiers... a letter that did not address the My Lai incident and made no mention of it?

Yes.

Did he do a half-assed job?

It certainly looks that way.

Was he involved in trying to coverup the My Lai massacre?

No fucking way!!!

Making progress.

The My Lai massacre occured in March 1968.
Powell was charged by his commanding general with investigation reports of atrocities committed in his division. He reported in Dec 1968 that everything was hunky-dory (my paraphrase). He wrote "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent."

The massacre did not become known to the public until March 1969 when another soldier in the division finally blew the whistle.

Either

(1) Major Powell was totally incompetent, or
(2) he was a team player and tried to whitewash his division's sorry record.
(3) He was lied to by troops trying to cover their asses when confronted by a superior officer and facing UCMJ
Now we KNOW he's not incompetent, and we know (from his speech to the UN about Iraq's WMDs) that he is willing to take one for his team.

There now we have a better idea of what may have occurred.

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

Quote
Quote
Quote
He investigated the claims by a soldier who was not at My Lai!!! He had no direct involvement in investigating My Lai.

he was charged with investigating non-specific atrocities and brutality by his division.

Being a team player doesn't implicate him in any My Lai coverup.

Ever heard of the Guilt by Association fallacy?

Irrelevant.
The guy who eventually blew the whistle was not a My Lai either.

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

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Quote
Either

(1) Major Powell was totally incompetent, or
(2) he was a team player and tried to whitewash his division's sorry record.
(3) He was lied to by troops trying to cover their asses when confronted by a superior officer and facing UCMJ
Now we KNOW he's not incompetent, and we know (from his speech to the UN about Iraq's WMDs) that he is willing to take one for his team.

There now we have a better idea of what may have occurred.

Why should reasonable considerations get in the way of a good old witch hunt?

kallend · February 14, 2007

Quote

(3) He was lied to by troops trying to cover their asses when confronted by a superior officer and facing UCMJ
Now we KNOW he's not incompetent, and we know (from his speech to the UN about Iraq's WMDs) that he is willing to take one for his team.

There now we have a better idea of what may have occurred.

kallend · February 14, 2007

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[

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You think he's incompetent.

Oh look - another fucking LIE. You just can't help yourself, can you?

Who wrote:
"Did he do a half-assed job?

It certainly looks that way."

Oh, it was YOU.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

kallend · February 14, 2007

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Why should reasonable considerations get in the way of a good old witch hunt?

Waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, and you think it's an eagle.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

NCclimber · February 14, 2007

Quote
Quote

Why should reasonable considerations get in the way of a good old witch hunt?

Waddles like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, and you think it's an eagle.

SHE'S A WITCH!!!

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