kallend 2,150
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rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteGov controlled minimum wage - good. Gov controlled minimum wages at the levels they are at now - bad.
So you do not see that raising the min wage does more harm than good?
Of course I do realize that evil business have to be told what to do.
Still waiting for PROOF that it has happened EVERY time.
That is nice. I suggest (as you have) do your own dam research. I am not going to put info out there and watch you deride the source. Oh, and I fully expect the "I will take that as a you don't have a source" comment too.
fun to watch
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGov controlled minimum wage - good. Gov controlled minimum wages at the levels they are at now - bad.
So you do not see that raising the min wage does more harm than good?
Of course I do realize that evil business have to be told what to do.
Still waiting for PROOF that it has happened EVERY time.
That is nice. I suggest (as you have) do your own dam research. I am not going to put info out there and watch you deride the source. Oh, and I fully expect the "I will take that as a you don't have a source" comment too.
fun to watch
It's as I thought, you don't have a legitimate source. You just made it up.
I fully expect NCclimber and JohnRich to chime in here and tell you how BAD it is to post stuff on this forum and not back it up with proof.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
willard 0
Quote
EDIT: Subsidized insurance = cheaper premiums for employers AND employees.
Sure, that would be free, wouldnt it.
Unfortunatly, at the most, all the subsidizing would do would be to spread the cost around. The government would still have to get the money from somewhere, probably through more taxes.
willard 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGov controlled minimum wage - good. Gov controlled minimum wages at the levels they are at now - bad.
So you do not see that raising the min wage does more harm than good?
Of course I do realize that evil business have to be told what to do.
Still waiting for PROOF that it has happened EVERY time.
That is nice. I suggest (as you have) do your own dam research. I am not going to put info out there and watch you deride the source. Oh, and I fully expect the "I will take that as a you don't have a source" comment too.
fun to watch
I think if someone tells you that you are wrong they should provide proof to back it up. I don't think it has happened every time either, but I have no proof that it has or hasn't.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGov controlled minimum wage - good. Gov controlled minimum wages at the levels they are at now - bad.
So you do not see that raising the min wage does more harm than good?
Of course I do realize that evil business have to be told what to do.
Still waiting for PROOF that it has happened EVERY time.
That is nice. I suggest (as you have) do your own dam research. I am not going to put info out there and watch you deride the source. Oh, and I fully expect the "I will take that as a you don't have a source" comment too.
fun to watch
I think if someone tells you that you are wrong they should provide proof to back it up. I don't think it has happened every time either, but I have no proof that it has or hasn't.
It is not the type of info that the media will put out as it does not fit thier agenda. The sites where this information can be found is veried but, when ever I post this type of data the sites are attacked and put down so, kallend can ask for what ever he wants even though he is will to tell others to find the info as he does not have the time.
So, if does not beleive it let him prove that with data ( that I am quite sure will be hard for him to find)
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteSo, if does not beleive it let him prove that with data ( that I am quite sure will be hard for him to find)
Brilliant! You've innovated a new unbeatable debate technique: make a claim then put the responsibility on the opponent for both (A) why you refuse to support the claim and (B) to disprove the claim. Truly inspired.
Why haven't debaters used this technique for years?
Oh right. Because it's transparently stupid. That's why.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteGov controlled minimum wage - good. Gov controlled minimum wages at the levels they are at now - bad.
So you do not see that raising the min wage does more harm than good?
Of course I do realize that evil business have to be told what to do.
Still waiting for PROOF that it has happened EVERY time.
That is nice. I suggest (as you have) do your own dam research. I am not going to put info out there and watch you deride the source. Oh, and I fully expect the "I will take that as a you don't have a source" comment too.
fun to watch
I think if someone tells you that you are wrong they should provide proof to back it up. .
No, it doesn't work that way. You make an assertion, you back it up. It's not up to others to prove you wrong.
If I say "there are dragons on Jupiter", is it correct until someone proves it wrong?
rushmc made a very explicit statement. I want to see proof that it is correct, or I will assume it is bogus like so much else that he posts.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteSo, if does not beleive it let him prove that with data ( that I am quite sure will be hard for him to find)
Brilliant! You've innovated a new unbeatable debate technique: make a claim then put the responsibility on the opponent for both (A) why you refuse to support the claim and (B) to disprove the claim. Truly inspired.
Why haven't debaters used this technique for years?
Oh right. Because it's transparently stupid. That's why.
....and you took the Guiness beer commerial tag linee and made it your own
Brilliant!!
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuoteQuoteSo, if does not beleive it let him prove that with data ( that I am quite sure will be hard for him to find)
Brilliant! You've innovated a new unbeatable debate technique: make a claim then put the responsibility on the opponent for both (A) why you refuse to support the claim and (B) to disprove the claim. Truly inspired.
Why haven't debaters used this technique for years?
Oh right. Because it's transparently stupid. That's why.
....and you took the Guiness beer commerial tag linee and made it your own
Brilliant!!
Still can't provide proof of your claim.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rushmc 23
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteSo, if does not beleive it let him prove that with data ( that I am quite sure will be hard for him to find)
Brilliant! You've innovated a new unbeatable debate technique: make a claim then put the responsibility on the opponent for both (A) why you refuse to support the claim and (B) to disprove the claim. Truly inspired.
Why haven't debaters used this technique for years?
Oh right. Because it's transparently stupid. That's why.
....and you took the Guiness beer commerial tag linee and made it your own
Brilliant!!
Still can't provide proof of your claim.
I guess you are right............
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
Quote....and you took the Guiness beer commerial tag linee and made it your own
I'm sorry... I try to follow the conversation better but I must have missed something. Maybe it's in another thread.
But where exactly did you explain that you're posting drunk?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
rushmc 23
But where exactly did you explain that you're posting drunk?
Brilliant, brilliant!
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
willard 0
"No, it doesn't work that way. You make an assertion, you back it up. It's not up to others to prove you wrong."
Well, Kallend, you have made the assertion that he was wrong. Prove it.
I could easily ask you to prove that it made no sense to stop hiring high school kids at my shop, but I won't because that would be asking you to prove something you can't.
Or we could just stop playing your little game of semantics that you seem to enjoy so much.
Well, Kallend, you have made the assertion that he was wrong. Prove it.
I could easily ask you to prove that it made no sense to stop hiring high school kids at my shop, but I won't because that would be asking you to prove something you can't.
Or we could just stop playing your little game of semantics that you seem to enjoy so much.
kallend 2,150
Quote"No, it doesn't work that way. You make an assertion, you back it up. It's not up to others to prove you wrong."
Well, Kallend, you have made the assertion that he was wrong. Prove it.
I could easily ask you to prove that it made no sense to stop hiring high school kids at my shop, but I won't because that would be asking you to prove something you can't.
Or we could just stop playing your little game of semantics that you seem to enjoy so much.
Your point has already been addressed, and you are wrong.
www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2665420#2665420
ALSO, I didn't assert that he is wrong, I asked him to prove that he is right.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 3,120
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>So you do not see that raising the min wage does more harm than good?
Raising the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour does more harm than good.
>Of course I do realize that evil business have to be told what to do.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. When companies lock fire doors to keep people working, they need to be told they can't do that. If they want to pay people 10 cents a day, and have them arrested for theft if they complain, then they need to be told they can't do that. But if they want to pay a high school kid $3 an hour to flip burgers - that's fine.
Raising the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour does more harm than good.
>Of course I do realize that evil business have to be told what to do.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. When companies lock fire doors to keep people working, they need to be told they can't do that. If they want to pay people 10 cents a day, and have them arrested for theft if they complain, then they need to be told they can't do that. But if they want to pay a high school kid $3 an hour to flip burgers - that's fine.
QuoteSometimes they do, sometimes they don't. When companies lock fire doors to keep people working, they need to be told they can't do that. If they want to pay people 10 cents a day, and have them arrested for theft if they complain, then they need to be told they can't do that. But if they want to pay a high school kid $3 an hour to flip burgers - that's fine.
Is this scattered set of examples arbitrary or are there specific principles behind them?
I ask because I'm curious if there's a philosophical basis to your theory of if it's just billvon's intuition.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuote
EDIT: Subsidized insurance = cheaper premiums for employers AND employees.
Sure, that would be free, wouldnt it.
Unfortunatly, at the most, all the subsidizing would do would be to spread the cost around. The government would still have to get the money from somewhere, probably through more taxes.
Oh, absolutely...let's put the gov't in charge of all the health insurance...after all, they're doing such wonders with all the other entitlement programs... SS, Medicaid, etc...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
QuoteI think if someone tells you that you are wrong they should provide proof to back it up.
The onus is on the person making the initial claim.
billvon 3,120
>Is this scattered set of examples arbitrary or are there specific
>principles behind them?
Are there specific examples, or are you asking for the principles behind them?
Google "Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire" for a good example of blatant disregard of employee safety, and "Scofield Mine Disaster" for a good example of "company towns" that would pay workers peanuts and threaten to arrest them if they left.
The principles behind them are:
There should be a minimum wage that is set such that it is possible to live (not live comfortably, but at least eat) with that wage. It should not be set by the federal government, but rather by state and local governments, who have a better view of what that minimum practical pay level is.
Employees should always be free to leave a job they dislike, and employers should always be free to hire new people to replace them (or fire the person if they are not performing.)
>principles behind them?
Are there specific examples, or are you asking for the principles behind them?
Google "Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire" for a good example of blatant disregard of employee safety, and "Scofield Mine Disaster" for a good example of "company towns" that would pay workers peanuts and threaten to arrest them if they left.
The principles behind them are:
There should be a minimum wage that is set such that it is possible to live (not live comfortably, but at least eat) with that wage. It should not be set by the federal government, but rather by state and local governments, who have a better view of what that minimum practical pay level is.
Employees should always be free to leave a job they dislike, and employers should always be free to hire new people to replace them (or fire the person if they are not performing.)
kallend 2,150
Quote>Is this scattered set of examples arbitrary or are there specific
>principles behind them?
Are there specific examples, or are you asking for the principles behind them?
Google "Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire" for a good example of blatant disregard of employee safety, )
Here's another example, from Chicago: www.ajph.org/cgi/reprint/90/4/535.pdf
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteAre there specific examples, or are you asking for the principles behind them?
What I'm asking is for the principles by which you decide if an example is "ok" or "not ok". Examples (like the factory disaster) are good for double checking if the principles result in intuitively reasonable results, but are hardly good for making future decisions.
QuoteThe principles behind them are:
There should be a minimum wage that is set such that it is possible to live (not live comfortably, but at least eat) with that wage.
This leads me to think you want the minimum wage to be scaled according to the worker's personal conditions. If the principle is they should be adequately paid enough to purchase minimal food shouldn't the minimum wage be pegged to their family size?
QuoteEmployees should always be free to leave a job they dislike, and employers should always be free to hire new people to replace them (or fire the person if they are not performing.)
Ok. Free to come and go. That seems pretty uncontested in modern america.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Zipp0 1
Quote
Raising the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour does more harm than good.
Bah. That doesn't even keep it in line with inflation since the last increase. Index it to inflation and lets move on to something else.
And how about a maximum wage? Those goddamn overpaid executives are hurting the bottom line too.
--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.
kallend 2,150
QuoteQuote
Raising the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 an hour does more harm than good.
Bah. That doesn't even keep it in line with inflation since the last increase. Index it to inflation and lets move on to something else.
And how about a maximum wage? Those goddamn overpaid executives are hurting the bottom line too.
I wonder how many CEOs will have to forgo their country club memberships or vacation homes on Kauaii on account of the minimum wage increase. My **guess** would be zero.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Still waiting for PROOF that it has happened EVERY time.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
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