billvon 3,094
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billvon 3,094
>but they truly must not realize what COULD be done by US/UK forces if truly pushed.
Good comment to Bush from Soroush Shehabi, CEO of Washington Life and grandson of one of the former Shah's ministers:
"I simply want to say one U.S. bomb on Iran and the regime we all despise will remain in power for another 20 or 30 years and 70 million Iranians will become radicalized."
Of course, we won't figure that out until a few years later, and then we'll blame the Syrians.
Good comment to Bush from Soroush Shehabi, CEO of Washington Life and grandson of one of the former Shah's ministers:
"I simply want to say one U.S. bomb on Iran and the regime we all despise will remain in power for another 20 or 30 years and 70 million Iranians will become radicalized."
Of course, we won't figure that out until a few years later, and then we'll blame the Syrians.
tkhayes 348
WWII is NOT a comparison. We were actually fighting an agressor at that time, Germany, who invaded several countries and occupied several others. The threat there was real, not imagined.
When Iraq invaded Kuwait, great, I had no issue with going in there, - an agressive action against an ally of ours. That's the kind of world cop I actually appreciate America being.
Not making up all the lies and then invading for no apparent reason.
My original point is that America tends to meddle in everyone's affairs far more than it should.
When Iraq invaded Kuwait, great, I had no issue with going in there, - an agressive action against an ally of ours. That's the kind of world cop I actually appreciate America being.
Not making up all the lies and then invading for no apparent reason.
My original point is that America tends to meddle in everyone's affairs far more than it should.
Iran is in this thing. If you don't believe or see that, your head is in the sand.
Now whether they will keep pushing the coalition, that's up to there so called terrorist leader.
Now whether they will keep pushing the coalition, that's up to there so called terrorist leader.
Yeah - America looms ever closer to war with Iran. No surprise there.
But we've been fighting primarily the Sunni insurgents. Who are hostile to Iran........
Besides, Robert Gates said 10 days ago there was no certainty. Now there is.
Anyway, not that it matters. Brit intel' were aware of this years ago, and we all believe our ~Governments and Intelligence services don't we? Also, this evening (GMT) an intelligence source from DZ.com states Kim Jong II becomes the AntiChrist in 2009.
So fuck it. I'm off to live in the Caribbean. Near a church.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
But we've been fighting primarily the Sunni insurgents. Who are hostile to Iran........
Besides, Robert Gates said 10 days ago there was no certainty. Now there is.
Anyway, not that it matters. Brit intel' were aware of this years ago, and we all believe our ~Governments and Intelligence services don't we? Also, this evening (GMT) an intelligence source from DZ.com states Kim Jong II becomes the AntiChrist in 2009.
So fuck it. I'm off to live in the Caribbean. Near a church.
'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'
tkhayes 348
I am not denying that Iran is in this thing - I find it obnoxiously arrogant that we call it 'meddling'.
But I would also NOT trust anything that comes out of our goverment about their involvement without third party independent collaboration of the information.
My trust of this government is shot. They lie, they twist and they cheat. I wonder how the American people stand for it. Personally I think too many are duped into the 'american dream' idea - or they are too apathetic to do anythign about it.
Which makes me wonder how bad it has to get BEFORE they do anything about it.
Impeach Bush for war crimes and get out of Iraq. Leave it to the Arabic community to sort out. Then come home and protect our own borders.....
Spend the war dollars on security at home, health care and education - oops, there I go being liberal again......
TK
But I would also NOT trust anything that comes out of our goverment about their involvement without third party independent collaboration of the information.
My trust of this government is shot. They lie, they twist and they cheat. I wonder how the American people stand for it. Personally I think too many are duped into the 'american dream' idea - or they are too apathetic to do anythign about it.
Which makes me wonder how bad it has to get BEFORE they do anything about it.
Impeach Bush for war crimes and get out of Iraq. Leave it to the Arabic community to sort out. Then come home and protect our own borders.....
Spend the war dollars on security at home, health care and education - oops, there I go being liberal again......
TK
"THEY" is a pretty big word though. A few bad apples can make a full barrel smell......
I'm with you on waiting to see some serious documented evidence before any type of action against them.
I wonder what would really happen if the coalition pulled out today from Iraq/Afghan. I would love to think we would all just "get along" but I know that would be incorrect. Do you really believe "they" would just leave the free world alone?
Ever wish to travel anywhere other than within U.S. borders? Something to think about. It's a sad world.
I'm with you on waiting to see some serious documented evidence before any type of action against them.
I wonder what would really happen if the coalition pulled out today from Iraq/Afghan. I would love to think we would all just "get along" but I know that would be incorrect. Do you really believe "they" would just leave the free world alone?
Ever wish to travel anywhere other than within U.S. borders? Something to think about. It's a sad world.
tkhayes 348
It should not be a big deal then to get rid of the 'few bad apples', but it seems to be impossible.
I have no idea what would happen if we pulled out. But my bet is that it would be better than what we have today.
If 'they' hate the free world so much, then America is not the only target. Other countries might have to buck up too to protect themselves instead of hoping that we will do it for them.
That sort of security has already been beefed up all over the globe post 9/11. We no longer need to be there. Afterall, Iraq was not and is not the source of terrorism. One day they are 'insurgents', the next day they are 'terrorists'. Many of them appear to want to kill each other. We deposed the dictator - now GET THE FUCK OUT.
Time for America to be selfish, but within our own borders.
I have no idea what would happen if we pulled out. But my bet is that it would be better than what we have today.
If 'they' hate the free world so much, then America is not the only target. Other countries might have to buck up too to protect themselves instead of hoping that we will do it for them.
That sort of security has already been beefed up all over the globe post 9/11. We no longer need to be there. Afterall, Iraq was not and is not the source of terrorism. One day they are 'insurgents', the next day they are 'terrorists'. Many of them appear to want to kill each other. We deposed the dictator - now GET THE FUCK OUT.
Time for America to be selfish, but within our own borders.
billvon 3,094
>I wonder what would really happen if the coalition pulled out today
> from Iraq/Afghan.
Kurdistan would be just fine; they'd probably declare independence.
The Shi'a and the Sunni would slug it out. The Iranians would step in to support the Shi'a against the evil Sunnis - and justify it by claiming the Sunnis were the party of Saddam Hussein. The Saudis would end up supporting the Sunnis. You'd probably end up with a three-way division of the country, into Kurdistan and a Shi'a and Sunni area, with lots of figthing along the borders.
>I would love to think we would all just "get along" but I know that
>would be incorrect.
Right, but that's because we regularly invade other countries - and others will follow our example.
>Do you really believe "they" would just leave the free world alone?
No more than we leave the Islamic world alone.
>Ever wish to travel anywhere other than within U.S. borders?
>Something to think about. It's a sad world.
Most of us have, and it's pretty enlightening. It's not that sad a world, really - most of the people in it are pretty good people, from Pakistanis to Thais to Russians to Belgians to Americans. It's just the governments that screw things up.
> from Iraq/Afghan.
Kurdistan would be just fine; they'd probably declare independence.
The Shi'a and the Sunni would slug it out. The Iranians would step in to support the Shi'a against the evil Sunnis - and justify it by claiming the Sunnis were the party of Saddam Hussein. The Saudis would end up supporting the Sunnis. You'd probably end up with a three-way division of the country, into Kurdistan and a Shi'a and Sunni area, with lots of figthing along the borders.
>I would love to think we would all just "get along" but I know that
>would be incorrect.
Right, but that's because we regularly invade other countries - and others will follow our example.
>Do you really believe "they" would just leave the free world alone?
No more than we leave the Islamic world alone.
>Ever wish to travel anywhere other than within U.S. borders?
>Something to think about. It's a sad world.
Most of us have, and it's pretty enlightening. It's not that sad a world, really - most of the people in it are pretty good people, from Pakistanis to Thais to Russians to Belgians to Americans. It's just the governments that screw things up.
ok Bill, I agree with you. 
billvon 3,094
>But we've been fighting primarily the Sunni insurgents. Who are hostile to Iran.....
No problem there! Iran is supporting our guys as well:
--------------------
U.S. intelligence and military officials have stated that Iranian weapons shipments "are going to Shiite militias that include rogue elements of Moqtada al-Sadr’s Mehdi army militia." But U.S. officials have not been as vocal about possible Iranian support for a separate Shiite militia, the Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution In Iraq (SCIRI). The Mehdi Army and SCIRI are rivals, and both have armed wings.
Yesterday, Kevin Drum speculated that Iran might be providing the SCIRI militia with weaponry. Drum wrote, "In other words, if we had to guess where the bombs were going, we might guess that SCIRI’s militia is getting a share of the action too." There’s no need to guess any longer. CNN’s Michael Ware has confirmed that Iranians have been supplying weapons to SCIRI.
---------------------
SCIRI is headed by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim. Bush had this to say about him a few months back:
BUSH: Your Eminence, welcome back to the Oval Office. This is the second opportunity I've had to meet with one of the distinguished leaders of a free Iraq. This is a man whose family suffered unbelievable violence at the hands of the dictator, Saddam Hussein. He lost nearly 60 family members, and yet rather than being bitter, he's involved with helping the new government succeed.
HAKIM: . . . We will work very hard and seek all forms of cooperation at the international level and the regional level in order to defeat terrorism that it is trying to use Iraq as a base in order to sabotage the future of that nation.
---------------------
I know, this introduces an annoying shade of gray into an issue that many want to be black and white. But it does sometimes pay to see more than that.
No problem there! Iran is supporting our guys as well:
--------------------
U.S. intelligence and military officials have stated that Iranian weapons shipments "are going to Shiite militias that include rogue elements of Moqtada al-Sadr’s Mehdi army militia." But U.S. officials have not been as vocal about possible Iranian support for a separate Shiite militia, the Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution In Iraq (SCIRI). The Mehdi Army and SCIRI are rivals, and both have armed wings.
Yesterday, Kevin Drum speculated that Iran might be providing the SCIRI militia with weaponry. Drum wrote, "In other words, if we had to guess where the bombs were going, we might guess that SCIRI’s militia is getting a share of the action too." There’s no need to guess any longer. CNN’s Michael Ware has confirmed that Iranians have been supplying weapons to SCIRI.
---------------------
SCIRI is headed by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim. Bush had this to say about him a few months back:
BUSH: Your Eminence, welcome back to the Oval Office. This is the second opportunity I've had to meet with one of the distinguished leaders of a free Iraq. This is a man whose family suffered unbelievable violence at the hands of the dictator, Saddam Hussein. He lost nearly 60 family members, and yet rather than being bitter, he's involved with helping the new government succeed.
HAKIM: . . . We will work very hard and seek all forms of cooperation at the international level and the regional level in order to defeat terrorism that it is trying to use Iraq as a base in order to sabotage the future of that nation.
---------------------
I know, this introduces an annoying shade of gray into an issue that many want to be black and white. But it does sometimes pay to see more than that.
Your one warning.
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