Lucky... 0 #26 February 12, 2007 QuoteI'm referring to this poll Hey, if you would, post the assertion you're replying to, since I have more than 1 response. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #27 February 12, 2007 QuoteI just defined, "progressive,"I'll give you a perfect example of progressive, although it's got no political direction. I just picked up a job from a customer who was having a house built by a "certified contractor." They spanned two 18' garage door headers with nothing more than a thin galvanized T, which,at best,was suitable for a six ft. door, and laid two runs of block on top of it. Then they poured concrete in the blocks. One header had an 8' cold joint and one piece of rebar that didn't go all the way across. It probably took them less than a day to do it. It took me a week and a half to tear it out, tie the steel the way it should have been done, form it and pour it. The progressive always moves the line from what is tried and true for the sake of selfishness, i.e. laziness and greed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #28 February 12, 2007 >I'll give you a perfect example of progressive . . . Had they been conservatives, they would have built the garage out of stone and taken two years to do it. Why do something new when the old methods work just fine? Why should they adopt your newfangled "steel" which is eventually going to rust out anyway and kill someone when it fails? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,108 #29 February 12, 2007 Quote>I'll give you a perfect example of progressive . . . Had they been conservatives, they would have built the garage out of stone and taken two years to do it. Why do something new when the old methods work just fine? Why should they adopt your newfangled "steel" which is eventually going to rust out anyway and kill someone when it fails? Wood was good enough for the Wright Brothers and Glenn Curtis - why do we have to have this aluminum stuff in our jump planes?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #30 February 12, 2007 Because I cant afford a Mosquito Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #31 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI just defined, "progressive,"I'll give you a perfect example of progressive, although it's got no political direction. I just picked up a job from a customer who was having a house built by a "certified contractor." They spanned two 18' garage door headers with nothing more than a thin galvanized T, which,at best,was suitable for a six ft. door, and laid two runs of block on top of it. Then they poured concrete in the blocks. One header had an 8' cold joint and one piece of rebar that didn't go all the way across. It probably took them less than a day to do it. It took me a week and a half to tear it out, tie the steel the way it should have been done, form it and pour it. The progressive always moves the line from what is tried and true for the sake of selfishness, i.e. laziness and greed. You've done zero to tie your story of a 1/2 assed job into progressivness. Are you trying to go for the union guy is always a lazy slob thing, or some machismo about how you're the true-blue red-blooded America worker and the dems are bunch of lazy fags. I read zero to tie in your story to anything progressive/regressive or anything. QuoteThe progressive always moves the line from what is tried and true for the sake of selfishness, i.e. laziness and greed. Why not cite a progressive movement that you disagree with. Let's start with abortion rights or gay rights, I'm sure you have lots of venom for those 2, throw out a bit of info on those and save your house stories for another thread. Tried and true.... hmmmm, like antimiscegenation (people of different races cannot marry - yes, it ws law in 16 states until 1968)? That kind of treid and true is what the progressive movement wnats to thwart, not some guy fucking up a garage installation. Black/white fountains, schools (Brown v Board of Edu), etc..... This is the tried and true to which you speak and it sucks in many cases. The anti-prgressives would have us with segregation and classism even bigger than it now is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #32 February 12, 2007 The progressive movement was seen last November and was seen tonight with the Dixie Chicks. They won at least 3 major awards. Think about it, we are in a progressive movement with the ouster of Congressional Repubs and the polsl leading the way. When Clinton was elected I hate to say, but it had to do with 2 major reasons: - Bush raised taxes - Perot split the Repub vote That was not a progressive movement period considering the Congress was hammered to the right in 94. This is now a progressive movement, hell, ya can't even get Repubs to talk about the debt, which is virtually all the doing of the Repubs, so some are getting honest with themselvs and realizing the trash that represents the party are not old-time, tried and true Repubs, they're neo-cons. Republican voters have allowed them to morph into neo-cons w/o un-electing them (sorry for the Bushism). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #33 February 12, 2007 QuoteYou've done zero to tie your story of a 1/2 assed job into progressivness. Are you trying to go for the union guy is always a lazy slob thing, or some machismo about how you're the true-blue red-blooded America worker and the dems are bunch of lazy fags. I read zero to tie in your story to anything progressive/regressive or anything. Zell Miller is a man with solid convictions, and stands head and shoulders above all of the finger wetters who are now in charge of the party. Progressives never met a peer pressure that they wouldn't bow down to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #34 February 12, 2007 I do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway."America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #35 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuote. Again, your cheery little story doesn't do anything but explain how you think you're a better house buider. understand the distant analogy, but good ole Rockwellian values fails to explain how those antiquated values would allow: - Women to vote - Blacks to sit rather than stand on a bus - Different races to marry - Gays to have rights - Innocent prisoners to go free and to not be executed I wish you would just go ahead and say you disagree with the above and we could go from there, but anti-progresssives don't like the above events. You can claim that progressives are the anemic granola eaters, and then we could meet and you would see otherwise. You can stereotype all day long and try to make you tough & progressives weak, but that doesn't make it true. QuoteZell Miller is a man with solid convictions GW Bush is a man with at least 1 solid conviction too. Furthermore, he is the first president that has military to not voluntarily and automatically make it public record;I think Zell and GW Bush came from the same general mold. It's rhetoric to claim Zell is a better man due to some unbending, antiquated protocol that revokes the rights of many, that's just unemotional and inhumane, but I guess thoe attributes are weaknesses to you. QuoteProgressives never met a peer pressure that they wouldn't bow down to. Progressives pick and choose their direction and their fights, not just take on which ever ones that knock on their door. My dad was a fist-pounder too, that is until he needed Medicare. Trust me, no one thinks a person is tough merely becuase they're intolerant, unless perhaps another zealot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #36 February 12, 2007 QuoteI do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway. LMK when you're done tapdancing. I can't speak for all progressives, but it means to me what the general definition stated. If you're anti-progressive then you are ok with the events I have posted in this thread. Instead of diverting the issue from where it s/b, let's over-define the definition of, "progressive." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #37 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway. LMK when you're done tapdancing. I can't speak for all progressives, but it means to me what the general definition stated. If you're anti-progressive then you are ok with the events I have posted in this thread. Instead of diverting the issue from where it s/b, let's over-define the definition of, "progressive." Too wide to be of any use, but thanks"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lucky... 0 #38 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway. LMK when you're done tapdancing. I can't speak for all progressives, but it means to me what the general definition stated. If you're anti-progressive then you are ok with the events I have posted in this thread. Instead of diverting the issue from where it s/b, let's over-define the definition of, "progressive." Too wide to be of any use, but thanks Definition is too wide? OK, it is cut-n-paste from the dictionary, guess I can't rewrite the English language. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #39 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway. LMK when you're done tapdancing. I can't speak for all progressives, but it means to me what the general definition stated. If you're anti-progressive then you are ok with the events I have posted in this thread. Instead of diverting the issue from where it s/b, let's over-define the definition of, "progressive." Too wide to be of any use, but thanks Definition is too wide? OK, it is cut-n-paste from the dictionary, guess I can't rewrite the English language. I am not meaning to be snippy. If I came across that way I am sorry. If you had to put what progressive means into two (or three) sentences that relate to politics, what would you say?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,078 #40 February 12, 2007 >If you had to put what progressive means into two (or three) >sentences that relate to politics, what would you say? A progressive advocates progress, change and reform. A conservative favors keeping things as they are and maintaining old habits and traditions. A "regressive" (don't know anyone like this; they are rare) favors a return to older traditions and values. A progressive advocates attempts at improving conditions for people, and encourages more enlightened liberal ideas or methods as opposed to maintaining traditional ideas and methods. An example - A conservative might try to solve the energy shortage by drilling for more oil. A progressive might favor increased reliance on solar and wind power. A regressive might favor bringing horses back to replace cars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rushmc 23 #41 February 12, 2007 Quote>If you had to put what progressive means into two (or three) >sentences that relate to politics, what would you say? A progressive advocates progress, change and reform. A conservative favors keeping things as they are and maintaining old habits and traditions. A "regressive" (don't know anyone like this; they are rare) favors a return to older traditions and values. A progressive advocates attempts at improving conditions for people, and encourages more enlightened liberal ideas or methods as opposed to maintaining traditional ideas and methods. An example - A conservative might try to solve the energy shortage by drilling for more oil. A progressive might favor increased reliance on solar and wind power. A regressive might favor bringing horses back to replace cars. Thanks, that helps. I don't necessarily agree with your conservative definition (you imply they do not want change) and I do not agree that is so. I also think a progressive liberal mind set tries to diminish personal responsibility. Thew want to destroy tradition and label those that do not agree with them. I also think some of the more radical are socially destructive. Example, language and cultural pc thinking. They are less tolerant of differing views and work to use courts to install what they believe to be correct. Not the legislators as defined by the constitution. Progressives do not want alternate schooling because they loose indroctrination chances. Example. global warming"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyChimp 0 #42 February 12, 2007 I'm seeing a lot of talk about Gay rights now. What's that have to do with the speech? Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,078 #43 February 12, 2007 >I don't necessarily agree with your conservative definition (you imply >they do not want change) . . . That's sort of the definition. Conservatives tend to preserve existing conditions, prefer traditional values over novel ones, and limit change. >I also think a progressive liberal mind set tries to diminish >personal responsibility. Thew want to destroy tradition and label >those that do not agree with them. There's nothing inherent to progressives that tries to diminish or promote personal responsibility. A progressive would likely support someone who feels responsible enough to get an alternative-fueled vehicle, but object to someone who feels like their 'personal responsibility' requires them to teach creationism in schools. It is what people do with that personal responsibility that makes them align with or oppose progressivism. "Destroy tradition" - partly correct. It would be more accurate to say that progressives do not see tradition as a barrier to new solutions/ways of life/plans. They see no value in destroying tradition, but also no value in keeping traditions. "label those who do not agree with them" - a characteristic of political extremists on both sides, not an inherent characteristic of either conservatism or progressivism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #44 February 12, 2007 I disagree strongly with Zell Miller. I believe it is Bush & the Neocons who betrayed this country & played into the hands of the terrorists. After the 9/11 attacks, we went into Afghanistan to get Al Quaeda & kick out their Taliban hosts. We killed & captured a lot of Al Quaida terrorists. I remember during the period leading up to the war in Afghanistan, some news commentator pointed out how one of the original flags of the USA had a picture of a snake & the logo "DON'T TREAD ON ME". The commentator pointed out that it was because "we don't start wars, but we will finish them." or something to that effect. . Much of the world rallied around us after 9/11 & agreed that Al Quaida was the enemy & needed to be dealt with. As many conservatives have pointed out, we are in a war of ideologies. But when Bush started his war in Iraq, he muddied the waters. All of a sudden, America was not clearly on the side of fighting for what was right, but was instead beginning a second, optional war, a war of aggression. As someone who is proud to be an American, I felt betrayed. I felt as if Bush had dragged our flag through the mud. And in doing so he played right into the hands of the terrorist propagandists. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Royd 0 #45 February 12, 2007 The progressive always moves the line from what is tried and true for the sake of selfishness, i.e. laziness and greed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteYou've done zero to tie your story of a 1/2 assed job into progressivness.As for my little story, if someone with a true progressive mind had been doing the work, I would not have been called to fix a major screw up that would have eventually caused serious damage, if left to run its course. This mind set is prevalent in today's society. Let's do just enough to squeak by, and grab as much as we can. Quality before quantity is a basic conservative mindset. QuoteWhy not cite a progressive movement that you disagree with. Let's start with abortion rights or gay rights,It was your precious Democrat party that was a major roadblock to desegragation in the sixties, and today it's people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who hate for a free man to be free. As to abortion rights, I'm sure that if they had a voice, there are about 30 to 40 million souls who never got a chance to reach their full potential, who would argue against "progression." I've never seen a gay person who didn't have just as many rights as I do. Please provide a list. Here's another great example of progressive thinking. NAMBLA. Everyone should be free to experience life to the fullest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SpeedRacer 1 #46 February 12, 2007 QuoteIt was your precious Democrat party that was a major roadblock to desegragation in the sixties that was not progressives. Not all Democrats are liberals. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #47 February 12, 2007 Quotethat was not progressives. Not all Democrats are liberals. Isn't that the thing? the term 'liberal' in it's most positive sense has NO (zero, zilch) correlation to either political party, new and old ideas are scattered all over both parties, ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyChimp 0 #48 February 12, 2007 QuoteI disagree strongly with Zell Miller. I believe it is Bush & the Neocons who betrayed this country & played into the hands of the terrorists. After the 9/11 attacks, we went into Afghanistan to get Al Quaeda & kick out their Taliban hosts. We killed & captured a lot of Al Quaida terrorists. I remember during the period leading up to the war in Afghanistan, some news commentator pointed out how one of the original flags of the USA had a picture of a snake & the logo "DON'T TREAD ON ME". The commentator pointed out that it was because "we don't start wars, but we will finish them." or something to that effect. . Much of the world rallied around us after 9/11 & agreed that Al Quaida was the enemy & needed to be dealt with. As many conservatives have pointed out, we are in a war of ideologies. But when Bush started his war in Iraq, he muddied the waters. All of a sudden, America was not clearly on the side of fighting for what was right, but was instead beginning a second, optional war, a war of aggression. As someone who is proud to be an American, I felt betrayed. I felt as if Bush had dragged our flag through the mud. And in doing so he played right into the hands of the terrorist propagandists. I must admit that had we finished the Afgan war, we might have had a different outcome on community support for Iraq. I still don't think "Bush lied" about WMD's. Democratic senators and the Clinton administration used the same intel that Bush did. See what the Dems said over the past 9 years. "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 http://web.archive.org/web/20040204225854/www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_0123.html "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 http://web.archive.org/web/20040206224935/johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2002_1009.html "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/18/iraq.political.analysis/ "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.html "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:u62ZeSGUfj0J:washingtontimes.com/national/inbeltway.htm "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/transcripts/gore_text092302.html AND THE BEST ONE OF ALL........ "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyChimp 0 #49 February 12, 2007 for some reason the URL's aren't taking, copy and paste the sources if need be. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,078 #50 February 12, 2007 > This mind set is prevalent in today's society. Let's do just enough to >squeak by, and grab as much as we can. You have just described capitalism. Unfettered capitalism is a basic republican plank. >Quality before quantity is a basic conservative mindset. ?? Nope. If you're talking republicans, capitalism as a principle is king. And capitalism means making as much off your customers as you possibly can. If it means selling millions of bits of plastic for a quarter cent less than your competition to rack up profits overall, then that's what a purely capitalist company does. If it means selling a few things for very, very high prices, and that makes you more money, then that's what you do. A company that makes a profit is successful. A company that doesn't - is not successful. If a company makes a great product but doesn't make much money selling it, and the government 'rescues' them through subsidies or whatnot - the subsidies are roundly condemned by republicans, using terms like "corporate welfare." >I've never seen a gay person who didn't have just as many rights as I do. I've met several. If you've never met a gay person who didn't have as many rights as you do, you haven't met many gay people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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Lucky... 0 #36 February 12, 2007 QuoteI do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway. LMK when you're done tapdancing. I can't speak for all progressives, but it means to me what the general definition stated. If you're anti-progressive then you are ok with the events I have posted in this thread. Instead of diverting the issue from where it s/b, let's over-define the definition of, "progressive." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #37 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteI do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway. LMK when you're done tapdancing. I can't speak for all progressives, but it means to me what the general definition stated. If you're anti-progressive then you are ok with the events I have posted in this thread. Instead of diverting the issue from where it s/b, let's over-define the definition of, "progressive." Too wide to be of any use, but thanks"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #38 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway. LMK when you're done tapdancing. I can't speak for all progressives, but it means to me what the general definition stated. If you're anti-progressive then you are ok with the events I have posted in this thread. Instead of diverting the issue from where it s/b, let's over-define the definition of, "progressive." Too wide to be of any use, but thanks Definition is too wide? OK, it is cut-n-paste from the dictionary, guess I can't rewrite the English language. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #39 February 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteI do know what the word means itself, but knowing how liberal and conservative have seemed to have gained specific political meaning I was looking for what "progressives" think it means. I just want to be on the same page anyway. LMK when you're done tapdancing. I can't speak for all progressives, but it means to me what the general definition stated. If you're anti-progressive then you are ok with the events I have posted in this thread. Instead of diverting the issue from where it s/b, let's over-define the definition of, "progressive." Too wide to be of any use, but thanks Definition is too wide? OK, it is cut-n-paste from the dictionary, guess I can't rewrite the English language. I am not meaning to be snippy. If I came across that way I am sorry. If you had to put what progressive means into two (or three) sentences that relate to politics, what would you say?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #40 February 12, 2007 >If you had to put what progressive means into two (or three) >sentences that relate to politics, what would you say? A progressive advocates progress, change and reform. A conservative favors keeping things as they are and maintaining old habits and traditions. A "regressive" (don't know anyone like this; they are rare) favors a return to older traditions and values. A progressive advocates attempts at improving conditions for people, and encourages more enlightened liberal ideas or methods as opposed to maintaining traditional ideas and methods. An example - A conservative might try to solve the energy shortage by drilling for more oil. A progressive might favor increased reliance on solar and wind power. A regressive might favor bringing horses back to replace cars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #41 February 12, 2007 Quote>If you had to put what progressive means into two (or three) >sentences that relate to politics, what would you say? A progressive advocates progress, change and reform. A conservative favors keeping things as they are and maintaining old habits and traditions. A "regressive" (don't know anyone like this; they are rare) favors a return to older traditions and values. A progressive advocates attempts at improving conditions for people, and encourages more enlightened liberal ideas or methods as opposed to maintaining traditional ideas and methods. An example - A conservative might try to solve the energy shortage by drilling for more oil. A progressive might favor increased reliance on solar and wind power. A regressive might favor bringing horses back to replace cars. Thanks, that helps. I don't necessarily agree with your conservative definition (you imply they do not want change) and I do not agree that is so. I also think a progressive liberal mind set tries to diminish personal responsibility. Thew want to destroy tradition and label those that do not agree with them. I also think some of the more radical are socially destructive. Example, language and cultural pc thinking. They are less tolerant of differing views and work to use courts to install what they believe to be correct. Not the legislators as defined by the constitution. Progressives do not want alternate schooling because they loose indroctrination chances. Example. global warming"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #42 February 12, 2007 I'm seeing a lot of talk about Gay rights now. What's that have to do with the speech? Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #43 February 12, 2007 >I don't necessarily agree with your conservative definition (you imply >they do not want change) . . . That's sort of the definition. Conservatives tend to preserve existing conditions, prefer traditional values over novel ones, and limit change. >I also think a progressive liberal mind set tries to diminish >personal responsibility. Thew want to destroy tradition and label >those that do not agree with them. There's nothing inherent to progressives that tries to diminish or promote personal responsibility. A progressive would likely support someone who feels responsible enough to get an alternative-fueled vehicle, but object to someone who feels like their 'personal responsibility' requires them to teach creationism in schools. It is what people do with that personal responsibility that makes them align with or oppose progressivism. "Destroy tradition" - partly correct. It would be more accurate to say that progressives do not see tradition as a barrier to new solutions/ways of life/plans. They see no value in destroying tradition, but also no value in keeping traditions. "label those who do not agree with them" - a characteristic of political extremists on both sides, not an inherent characteristic of either conservatism or progressivism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #44 February 12, 2007 I disagree strongly with Zell Miller. I believe it is Bush & the Neocons who betrayed this country & played into the hands of the terrorists. After the 9/11 attacks, we went into Afghanistan to get Al Quaeda & kick out their Taliban hosts. We killed & captured a lot of Al Quaida terrorists. I remember during the period leading up to the war in Afghanistan, some news commentator pointed out how one of the original flags of the USA had a picture of a snake & the logo "DON'T TREAD ON ME". The commentator pointed out that it was because "we don't start wars, but we will finish them." or something to that effect. . Much of the world rallied around us after 9/11 & agreed that Al Quaida was the enemy & needed to be dealt with. As many conservatives have pointed out, we are in a war of ideologies. But when Bush started his war in Iraq, he muddied the waters. All of a sudden, America was not clearly on the side of fighting for what was right, but was instead beginning a second, optional war, a war of aggression. As someone who is proud to be an American, I felt betrayed. I felt as if Bush had dragged our flag through the mud. And in doing so he played right into the hands of the terrorist propagandists. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #45 February 12, 2007 The progressive always moves the line from what is tried and true for the sake of selfishness, i.e. laziness and greed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteYou've done zero to tie your story of a 1/2 assed job into progressivness.As for my little story, if someone with a true progressive mind had been doing the work, I would not have been called to fix a major screw up that would have eventually caused serious damage, if left to run its course. This mind set is prevalent in today's society. Let's do just enough to squeak by, and grab as much as we can. Quality before quantity is a basic conservative mindset. QuoteWhy not cite a progressive movement that you disagree with. Let's start with abortion rights or gay rights,It was your precious Democrat party that was a major roadblock to desegragation in the sixties, and today it's people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton who hate for a free man to be free. As to abortion rights, I'm sure that if they had a voice, there are about 30 to 40 million souls who never got a chance to reach their full potential, who would argue against "progression." I've never seen a gay person who didn't have just as many rights as I do. Please provide a list. Here's another great example of progressive thinking. NAMBLA. Everyone should be free to experience life to the fullest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #46 February 12, 2007 QuoteIt was your precious Democrat party that was a major roadblock to desegragation in the sixties that was not progressives. Not all Democrats are liberals. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #47 February 12, 2007 Quotethat was not progressives. Not all Democrats are liberals. Isn't that the thing? the term 'liberal' in it's most positive sense has NO (zero, zilch) correlation to either political party, new and old ideas are scattered all over both parties, ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #48 February 12, 2007 QuoteI disagree strongly with Zell Miller. I believe it is Bush & the Neocons who betrayed this country & played into the hands of the terrorists. After the 9/11 attacks, we went into Afghanistan to get Al Quaeda & kick out their Taliban hosts. We killed & captured a lot of Al Quaida terrorists. I remember during the period leading up to the war in Afghanistan, some news commentator pointed out how one of the original flags of the USA had a picture of a snake & the logo "DON'T TREAD ON ME". The commentator pointed out that it was because "we don't start wars, but we will finish them." or something to that effect. . Much of the world rallied around us after 9/11 & agreed that Al Quaida was the enemy & needed to be dealt with. As many conservatives have pointed out, we are in a war of ideologies. But when Bush started his war in Iraq, he muddied the waters. All of a sudden, America was not clearly on the side of fighting for what was right, but was instead beginning a second, optional war, a war of aggression. As someone who is proud to be an American, I felt betrayed. I felt as if Bush had dragged our flag through the mud. And in doing so he played right into the hands of the terrorist propagandists. I must admit that had we finished the Afgan war, we might have had a different outcome on community support for Iraq. I still don't think "Bush lied" about WMD's. Democratic senators and the Clinton administration used the same intel that Bush did. See what the Dems said over the past 9 years. "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 http://web.archive.org/web/20040204225854/www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_0123.html "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 http://web.archive.org/web/20040206224935/johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2002_1009.html "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/18/iraq.political.analysis/ "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.html "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998 http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:u62ZeSGUfj0J:washingtontimes.com/national/inbeltway.htm "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/transcripts/gore_text092302.html AND THE BEST ONE OF ALL........ "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 http://clinton.senate.gov/speeches/iraq_101002.html Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #49 February 12, 2007 for some reason the URL's aren't taking, copy and paste the sources if need be. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,078 #50 February 12, 2007 > This mind set is prevalent in today's society. Let's do just enough to >squeak by, and grab as much as we can. You have just described capitalism. Unfettered capitalism is a basic republican plank. >Quality before quantity is a basic conservative mindset. ?? Nope. If you're talking republicans, capitalism as a principle is king. And capitalism means making as much off your customers as you possibly can. If it means selling millions of bits of plastic for a quarter cent less than your competition to rack up profits overall, then that's what a purely capitalist company does. If it means selling a few things for very, very high prices, and that makes you more money, then that's what you do. A company that makes a profit is successful. A company that doesn't - is not successful. If a company makes a great product but doesn't make much money selling it, and the government 'rescues' them through subsidies or whatnot - the subsidies are roundly condemned by republicans, using terms like "corporate welfare." >I've never seen a gay person who didn't have just as many rights as I do. I've met several. If you've never met a gay person who didn't have as many rights as you do, you haven't met many gay people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
