JohnRich 4 #1 February 9, 2007 News:County takes a shot at 10-cent-a-bullet tax What could be the nation's first tax on bullets is being floated as a way to help balance Cook County's budget. Commissioner Roberto Maldonado wants to slap a 10-cent-a-bullet tax on those buying ammunition in the county... Maldonado said an ammo tax "is as close as possible to a sin tax" and could bring in more than $250,000 a year. Source: Sun Times So, gun owners should have to pay for the county's fiscal mismanagement, and shooting sports are now a "sin", like drinking or smoking, that does harm to people and society... I think those shooters will just go outside the county to purchase their ammo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #2 February 9, 2007 QuoteNews:County takes a shot at 10-cent-a-bullet tax What could be the nation's first tax on bullets is being floated as a way to help balance Cook County's budget. Commissioner Roberto Maldonado wants to slap a 10-cent-a-bullet tax on those buying ammunition in the county... Maldonado said an ammo tax "is as close as possible to a sin tax" and could bring in more than $250,000 a year. Source: Sun Times So, gun owners should have to pay for the county's fiscal mismanagement, and shooting sports are now a "sin", like drinking or smoking, that does harm to people and society... . Pity Bush hasn't found a way to pay for his administration's fiscal mismanagement.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #3 February 9, 2007 Instead of derailing every unrelated thread in this forum to feed your desire to bash President Bush, perhaps you should try starting your own threads on that specific topic to feed your obsession. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #4 February 9, 2007 any tax that increases the price of a unit so drastically is idiotic. I agree that people will then purchase their ammo either online or outside the county inevitably causing a loss in county revenue.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm951 0 #5 February 9, 2007 What about people who cast their own bullets? Bootlegging all over again? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,506 #6 February 10, 2007 Stolen Idea: Back in the 80's when the Brady Bill was gaining popularity, Tip O'Neill made the comment, "If I can't ban guns, I can tax the ammunition until people can't afford them anymore."Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jpjc2000 0 #7 February 10, 2007 Well Said!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #8 February 10, 2007 QuoteNews:County takes a shot at 10-cent-a-bullet tax What could be the nation's first tax on bullets is being floated as a way to help balance Cook County's budget. Commissioner Roberto Maldonado wants to slap a 10-cent-a-bullet tax on those buying ammunition in the county... Maldonado said an ammo tax "is as close as possible to a sin tax" and could bring in more than $250,000 a year. Source: Sun Times So, gun owners should have to pay for the county's fiscal mismanagement, and shooting sports are now a "sin", like drinking or smoking, that does harm to people and society... I think those shooters will just go outside the county to purchase their ammo. It's certainly an interesting tax. Governments, both local and national, raise money by taxation, and generally set out to tax stuff that folk want... That way they get to raise money. I guess that in this way it's no different from taxes on fuel, sales tax, gambling taxes, tobacco, alcohol, etc... The reaction ot this tax is interesting. People who quite happily pay "sin" taxes on alcohol, tobacco, gambling, fuel, vehicles, luxury goods, etc... (including guns), choose to be outraged by a specific tax on bullets! I feel that this tends to say more about the institutional paranoia prevalent in the NRA than about Cook Countys fiscal policy. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #9 February 10, 2007 Institutional paranioa in the NRA...or the county? Also, please show how OWNING ammunition is harming someone, where it deserves a "sin tax". All that will happen from this is that people will buy online or in the surrounding counties...further depleting the tax base. Smart move, Commissioner Maldonado! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #10 February 10, 2007 QuoteInstitutional paranioa in the NRA...or the county? Also, please show how OWNING ammunition is harming someone, where it deserves a "sin tax". All that will happen from this is that people will buy online or in the surrounding counties...further depleting the tax base. Smart move, Commissioner Maldonado! Taxes are taxes, the dues we pay to belong to an advanced society. They are ALL arbitrary to some extent. Why should mortgage interest be deductible but furniture payment interest is not? All you are really pissed about is that something YOU like is being taxed.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #11 February 10, 2007 Quote...please show how OWNING ammunition is harming someone, where it deserves a "sin tax". Owning or buying ammunition harms no-one of course... And is no more likely to cause harm than owning, buying & using tobacco, alcohol, fuel, a car, or gambling money at a casino. The point of "sin taxes" is not to curb bad behaviour, rather it is to raise money from enjoyment or stuff that isn't essential to survival or basic comfort. "Pleasure-Tax" or "Luxury-Tax" may be a better term. QuoteAll that will happen from this is that people will buy online or in the surrounding counties...further depleting the tax base. In some cases people will travel to purchase. However, the cost of travel to obtain cheaper goods must be considered. For smaller purchases the cost of obtaining the cheaper goods may outweigh the saving made, in which case the goods will be bought locally and the tax paid. A classic example of this is UK tobacco taxes. By travelling to mainland Europe, tobacco can be bought for arounf 1/3rd to 1/2 the price. It's cheaper to travel if you're buying 5Kg of tobacco or more, but for lower amounts it's cheaper to just go to the local shop and pay the UK tax. In a way this works out as a "poor-tax" in that those who can't afford the large outlay to travel and buy in bulk must pay the higher local price. So... It'll be interesting to see how this particular tax works out. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #12 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteInstitutional paranioa in the NRA...or the county? Also, please show how OWNING ammunition is harming someone, where it deserves a "sin tax". All that will happen from this is that people will buy online or in the surrounding counties...further depleting the tax base. Smart move, Commissioner Maldonado! Taxes are taxes, the dues we pay to belong to an advanced society. They are ALL arbitrary to some extent. Why should mortgage interest be deductible but furniture payment interest is not? All you are really pissed about is that something YOU like is being taxed. Nope, not particularly... I expect crap like this from the politicians... Guess you better stock up on that tungsten shot now, Doc...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #13 February 10, 2007 This is just another defacto way of keeping guns out of the hands of the law abiding. Herr Daley and Gov. Blowjobabitch have no concerns for anyones inalieble rights nor do they care about the rule of law. This was just the latest in many attempts to outlaw firearms and ammunition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #14 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteInstitutional paranioa in the NRA...or the county? Also, please show how OWNING ammunition is harming someone, where it deserves a "sin tax". All that will happen from this is that people will buy online or in the surrounding counties...further depleting the tax base. Smart move, Commissioner Maldonado! Taxes are taxes, the dues we pay to belong to an advanced society. They are ALL arbitrary to some extent. Why should mortgage interest be deductible but furniture payment interest is not? All you are really pissed about is that something YOU like is being taxed. Nope, not particularly... I expect crap like this from the politicians... Guess you better stock up on that tungsten shot now, Doc... Tungsten shot is VERY expensive. Adding 10c an ounce would make an insignificant difference.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #15 February 10, 2007 QuoteGovernments, both local and national, raise money by taxation, and generally set out to tax stuff that folk want... That way they get to raise money. I guess that in this way it's no different from taxes on fuel, sales tax, gambling taxes, tobacco, alcohol, etc... So you'd be ok if the state of Florida placed a $50 tax on pack jobs at DZs? Some ammunition is about one cent per round. How many other taxed items can you name that have a 1000% tax? QuoteThe reaction ot this tax is interesting. People who quite happily pay "sin" taxes on alcohol, tobacco, gambling, fuel, vehicles, luxury goods, etc... (including guns), choose to be outraged by a specific tax on bullets! I feel that this tends to say more about the institutional paranoia prevalent in the NRA than about Cook Countys fiscal policy. How many people are trying to outlaw alcohol, tobacco, gambling, cars, and luxury items? There is a difference in motivations that leads to a difference in reactions. Remember: just because you're paranoid that doens't mean they're not out to get you.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #16 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteGovernments, both local and national, raise money by taxation, and generally set out to tax stuff that folk want... That way they get to raise money. I guess that in this way it's no different from taxes on fuel, sales tax, gambling taxes, tobacco, alcohol, etc... So you'd be ok if the state of Florida placed a $50 tax on pack jobs at DZs? . ALL tax rates, no exceptions, are arbitrarily set. I can detect not one iota of difference between this proposal and having an excise tax on JetA or Scotch. "Death and taxes" - B. Franklin By the way - how many paid packers actually pay income tax on their earnings?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #17 February 10, 2007 I guess if you make ammunition $1000.00 per round only the "right kind of people" will have ammunition eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #18 February 10, 2007 QuoteSo you'd be ok if the state of Florida placed a $50 tax on pack jobs at DZs? Yeah... I'd pack myself! but it's a bad analogy to compare taxing such a service. Let's say that Fl placed a special $50 tax on a jump ticket... Then there'd be a lot less jumping done in Fl, with most folk saving up and going to Az twice a year for loads of jumps. But... For an occasional single jump, then it may be cheaper for Fl residents to go to a local Dz than it would be to travel out of state. The thing with taxes is that they might modify behaviour, but they certainly raise money. QuoteHow many people are trying to outlaw alcohol, tobacco, gambling, cars, and luxury items? There is a difference in motivations that leads to a difference in reactions. Remember: just because you're paranoid that doens't mean they're not out to get you. Some counties in the US DO outlaw alcohol - they're called "dry-counties". Many states outlaw gambling. Some states do legislate to outlaw the use of tobacco by banning smoking in public. Some other states or counties choose to allow such things and tax them. So... The question is whether Cook County is seeking to outlaw firearms or make extra money from their use. A 10cent bullet tax tends to suggest the latter. If Cook County really wanted to prohibit guns I'm sure that there's other ways to go about it that'd be far more effective than this tax, perhaps by some variation on business laws to make operating any business connected with firearms prohibitively expensive. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #19 February 10, 2007 QuoteI guess if you make ammunition $1000.00 per round only the "right kind of people" will have ammunition eh? I see some nice kits for self-loading in my local gun shop. I expect they would become very popular. ALL taxes are arbitrary. ALL of them. 100%. Every one. Complaining about taxes being unfair is just silly. OTOH complaining that some taxes are inefficient is reasonable, no need to waste taxpayers' money on inefficient or ineffective collection processes.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #20 February 10, 2007 QuoteI guess if you make ammunition $1000.00 per round only the "right kind of people" will have ammunition eh? Or more likely the "Wrong kind of people" with such a level of taxation. 10 cents a round on the other hand, is a raise-money tax... Sufficient to pinch a bit, but not so high as to force people to abandon their gun use because that would defeat the purpose of the tax. And this is really what this discussion is about; Whether you see this tax as a means of raising money or a means of prohibiting gun use (at least among the lower income classes). Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #21 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo you'd be ok if the state of Florida placed a $50 tax on pack jobs at DZs? Yeah... I'd pack myself! but it's a bad analogy to compare taxing such a service. Let's say that Fl placed a special $50 tax on a jump ticket... Then there'd be a lot less jumping done in Fl, with most folk saving up and going to Az twice a year for loads of jumps. But... For an occasional single jump, then it may be cheaper for Fl residents to go to a local Dz than it would be to travel out of state. The thing with taxes is that they might modify behaviour, but they certainly raise money. QuoteHow many people are trying to outlaw alcohol, tobacco, gambling, cars, and luxury items? There is a difference in motivations that leads to a difference in reactions. Remember: just because you're paranoid that doens't mean they're not out to get you. Some counties in the US DO outlaw alcohol - they're called "dry-counties". Many states outlaw gambling. Some states do legislate to outlaw the use of tobacco by banning smoking in public. Some other states or counties choose to allow such things and tax them. So... The question is whether Cook County is seeking to outlaw firearms or make extra money from their use. A 10cent bullet tax tends to suggest the latter. If Cook County really wanted to prohibit guns I'm sure that there's other ways to go about it that'd be far more effective than this tax, perhaps by some variation on business laws to make operating any business connected with firearms prohibitively expensive. Mike. I actually live in Cook County, Illinois, unlike the original whiner poster. We already have county tax on booze, gas, and tobacco. Hasn't put any gas stations, liquor stores or tobacconists out of business that I have noticed. My nearest (real) gun shop is 2.5 miles from my house. The next closest (real) one I know is in Merrillville Indiana (I'm excluding WalMarts here). I can't imagine anyone making the 60 mile round trip just to save a couple of bucks on a box of ammo.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #22 February 10, 2007 Tungsten shot tends to go for in the area of $20 for ten rounds, depending on manufacturer and round specifics. Adding a dollar would be an annoyance, not a bank breaker. Tungsten alternatives What about .22 ammunition, the most popular ammunition in the country? That goes for about one cent per round. A box of five hundred goes from to $25 to $35. Adding a $50 tax to that seems a little ridiculous, doesn't it?witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #23 February 10, 2007 QuoteI actually live in Cook County, Illinois, unlike the original poster. We already have county tax on booze, gas, and tobacco. Hasn't put any gas stations, liquor stores or tobacconists out of business that I have noticed. My nearest (real) gun shop is 2.5 miles from my house. The next closest (real) one I know is in Merrillville Indiana (I'm excluding WalMarts here). I can't imagine anyone making the 60 mile round trip just to save a couple of bucks on a box of ammo. See, now you're not playing fair, there, professor. If you're talking about ammunition alternatives, why does it need to be a gun store? Wally-Worlds sell ammunition. Also, you don't need to leave the comfort of your computer to buy ammunition. I regularly order rounds from Cabelas and CheaperThanDirt. They have a better selection and lower prices than either my local gun shops or the Wal-mart.witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #24 February 10, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteInstitutional paranioa in the NRA...or the county? Also, please show how OWNING ammunition is harming someone, where it deserves a "sin tax". All that will happen from this is that people will buy online or in the surrounding counties...further depleting the tax base. Smart move, Commissioner Maldonado! Taxes are taxes, the dues we pay to belong to an advanced society. They are ALL arbitrary to some extent. Why should mortgage interest be deductible but furniture payment interest is not? All you are really pissed about is that something YOU like is being taxed. Nope, not particularly... I expect crap like this from the politicians... Guess you better stock up on that tungsten shot now, Doc... Tungsten shot is VERY expensive. Adding 10c an ounce would make an insignificant difference. 10 cents a round doesn't sound like much...but what's to say they won't decide to go higher? I believe they tried this in Cali a few years ago, as well. I believeMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #25 February 10, 2007 Ammunition is already taxed at a rate of 6.75%, so you think an additional tax of 10 cents per round is okay? I say bullshit Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
