Andy9o8 2
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Andy9o8 2
QuoteQuite possibly. But what now, have a President with no credibility, weakened military and huge public war debt go and start another war?
If what you say is all true, Iran must be very worried.
What do you think is on their minds right now?
I know they have their agenda but it is surely realized that if they go too far and the US retaliates in any way they are sincerely in trouble.
We may have our forces stretched thin, but we won't need to occupy Iran, nor would we want to, after the initial strike.
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
Interesting points. Possibly true (execpt for your veiled suggestion we might go nuke...). Reagan kicked Libya's ass a couple times, and that did make them cut a lot of their shit out. I do think Iran has brasser balls than Khaddafi, though. Nonetheless, Bush might just calculate that he's at the end of his political career anyway, and whatever his legacy, for good or ill, will be, it will be, so why not just give the Iranians one last good bashing on his way out? Yeah, the Iranians just might push things too far.
Zipp0 1
Quote(Then again, maybe I'm giving The People too much credit...?)
Absofreakinglutely.
--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.
Quote
We may have our forces stretched thin, but we won't need to occupy Iran, nor would we want to, after the initial strike.
Oooookay. Let's forget what affect striking at the second spoke of the "axis of evil" might unleash in the terms of global hostility towards us and consider something simple like Iran blocking the Strait of Hormuz and essentially blockading a significant portion of the world's oil supply?
The repercussions of an attack on Iran are going to be significant and long term. The "we'll be greeted as liberators", and "maybe six weeks but certainly not six months" and "hard to imagine that we'd need more troops than the initial invasion force" and "it will be paid for by......" isn't going to work this time. I think (and I can't believe that I'm quoting this guy) Grover Norquist said it best in the article I posted:
"Everything the advocates of war said would happen hasn't happened," ... "And all the things the critics said would happen have happened. [The president's neoconservative advisers] are effectively saying, 'Invade Iran. Then everyone will see how smart we are.' But after you've lost x number of times at the roulette wheel, do you double-down?"
Official: Lawmakers See Iran Explosives
Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:30 AM EST
The Associated Press
By LOLITA C. BALDOR
MUNICH, Germany (AP) — U.S. military commanders in Iraq have shown members of Congress explosive devices that bear Iranian markings as evidence Tehran is supplying Iraqi militants with bombs, a senior U.S. government official said Saturday.
One of the lawmakers, independent Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, said he has seen some of the evidence, though he would not be specific. "I'm convinced from what I've seen that the Iranians are supplying and are giving assistance to the people in Iraq who are killing American soldiers," said Lieberman, who was attending an international security conference in Munich.
The senior official said military commanders in December showed lawmakers mortar rounds and other munitions and fragments that had Iranian serial numbers and markings.
The official, who requested anonymity because the evidence collected has not been made public, said U.S. generals also displayed improvised explosive devices that they said reflected Iranian style.
On Friday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates told reporters that serial numbers and other markings linked the Iranians to explosives used by insurgents in Iraq. His comments were among the Bush administration's first public assertions about evidence the military has collected.
The administration and military officials have said repeatedly that Iranians have been tied to terrorist bombings in Iraq. But U.S. officials have said little about evidence, including any documents and other items collected in recent raids in Iraq, to bolster such claims.
National security officials in Washington and Iraq have worked for weeks on a presentation intended to provide evidence for the administration's claims of what they say are Iran's meddlesome and deadly activities.
Officials say the materials — which in their classified form include slides and 2 inches of documents — provide evidence of Iran's role in supplying Iraqi militants with highly sophisticated and lethal improvised explosive devices and other weaponry.
Among the weapons is a roadside bomb known as an "explosively formed penetrator," which can pierce the armor of Abrams tanks with nearly molten-hot charges. One intelligence official said the U.S. is "fairly comfortable" it knows the source of the explosives.
The Iran dossier also lays out alleged Iranian efforts to train Iraqis in military techniques.
Government officials say there is some disagreement about how much to make public to support the administration's case. Intelligence officials worry the sources of their information could dry up.
Among the evidence the administration will present are weapons that were seized in U.S.-led raids on caches around Iraq, one military official in Washington said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.
Other evidence includes documents captured when U.S.-led forces raided an Iranian office Jan. 11 in Irbil in northern Iraq, the official said. Tehran said it was a government liaison office. The U.S. military said five Iranians detained in the raid were connected to an Iranian Revolutionary Guard faction that funds and arms insurgents in Iraq.
The assertions have been met with skepticism by some lawmakers still fuming over intelligence reports used by the administration to propel the country to war with Iraq in 2003. In fact, a report this week by the Pentagon's internal watchdog criticized prewar assertions by the Defense Department about al-Qaida's connections to Iraq.
Gates told reporters in Seville, Spain, on Friday that markings on explosives provide "pretty good" evidence that Iranians are supplying either weapons or technology for Iraqi extremists.
"I think there's some serial numbers, there may be some markings on some of the projectile fragments that we found" that point to Iran, he said.
Gates' remarks left unclear how the U.S. knows the serial numbers are traceable to Iran and whether such weapons would have been sent to Iraq by the Iranian government or by private arms dealers.
Explosives have been a leading killer of U.S. forces in Iraq, where more than 3,000 U.S. troops have died in the nearly four-year-old war.
Last week, Gates said U.S. military officers in Baghdad had planned to brief reporters on what was known about Iranian involvement in Iraq but that he and other senior officials delayed the briefing to assure the information was accurate.
A White House spokeswoman, Dana Perino, said Friday that such information would come from U.S. officials in Iraq, though she did not say when.
———
Associated Press writers Pauline Jelinek and Katherine Shrader in Washington contributed to this report.
Saturday, February 10, 2007 9:30 AM EST
The Associated Press
By LOLITA C. BALDOR
MUNICH, Germany (AP) — U.S. military commanders in Iraq have shown members of Congress explosive devices that bear Iranian markings as evidence Tehran is supplying Iraqi militants with bombs, a senior U.S. government official said Saturday.
One of the lawmakers, independent Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, said he has seen some of the evidence, though he would not be specific. "I'm convinced from what I've seen that the Iranians are supplying and are giving assistance to the people in Iraq who are killing American soldiers," said Lieberman, who was attending an international security conference in Munich.
The senior official said military commanders in December showed lawmakers mortar rounds and other munitions and fragments that had Iranian serial numbers and markings.
The official, who requested anonymity because the evidence collected has not been made public, said U.S. generals also displayed improvised explosive devices that they said reflected Iranian style.
On Friday, Defense Secretary Robert Gates told reporters that serial numbers and other markings linked the Iranians to explosives used by insurgents in Iraq. His comments were among the Bush administration's first public assertions about evidence the military has collected.
The administration and military officials have said repeatedly that Iranians have been tied to terrorist bombings in Iraq. But U.S. officials have said little about evidence, including any documents and other items collected in recent raids in Iraq, to bolster such claims.
National security officials in Washington and Iraq have worked for weeks on a presentation intended to provide evidence for the administration's claims of what they say are Iran's meddlesome and deadly activities.
Officials say the materials — which in their classified form include slides and 2 inches of documents — provide evidence of Iran's role in supplying Iraqi militants with highly sophisticated and lethal improvised explosive devices and other weaponry.
Among the weapons is a roadside bomb known as an "explosively formed penetrator," which can pierce the armor of Abrams tanks with nearly molten-hot charges. One intelligence official said the U.S. is "fairly comfortable" it knows the source of the explosives.
The Iran dossier also lays out alleged Iranian efforts to train Iraqis in military techniques.
Government officials say there is some disagreement about how much to make public to support the administration's case. Intelligence officials worry the sources of their information could dry up.
Among the evidence the administration will present are weapons that were seized in U.S.-led raids on caches around Iraq, one military official in Washington said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly.
Other evidence includes documents captured when U.S.-led forces raided an Iranian office Jan. 11 in Irbil in northern Iraq, the official said. Tehran said it was a government liaison office. The U.S. military said five Iranians detained in the raid were connected to an Iranian Revolutionary Guard faction that funds and arms insurgents in Iraq.
The assertions have been met with skepticism by some lawmakers still fuming over intelligence reports used by the administration to propel the country to war with Iraq in 2003. In fact, a report this week by the Pentagon's internal watchdog criticized prewar assertions by the Defense Department about al-Qaida's connections to Iraq.
Gates told reporters in Seville, Spain, on Friday that markings on explosives provide "pretty good" evidence that Iranians are supplying either weapons or technology for Iraqi extremists.
"I think there's some serial numbers, there may be some markings on some of the projectile fragments that we found" that point to Iran, he said.
Gates' remarks left unclear how the U.S. knows the serial numbers are traceable to Iran and whether such weapons would have been sent to Iraq by the Iranian government or by private arms dealers.
Explosives have been a leading killer of U.S. forces in Iraq, where more than 3,000 U.S. troops have died in the nearly four-year-old war.
Last week, Gates said U.S. military officers in Baghdad had planned to brief reporters on what was known about Iranian involvement in Iraq but that he and other senior officials delayed the briefing to assure the information was accurate.
A White House spokeswoman, Dana Perino, said Friday that such information would come from U.S. officials in Iraq, though she did not say when.
———
Associated Press writers Pauline Jelinek and Katherine Shrader in Washington contributed to this report.
Sounds to me like Iran supports one side in a civil war and the US supports the other side.
So?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
So?
First Class Citizen Twice Over
You seem to want to hold the US accountable for actions in Iraq, and yet you don't seem to hold any other nation accountable for the ongoing violence?
Please explain....I just don't understand that ideology
Please explain....I just don't understand that ideology
QuoteYou seem to want to hold the US accountable for actions in Iraq, and yet you don't seem to hold any other nation accountable for the ongoing violence?
Please explain....I just don't understand that ideology
Hold on! You're jumping ahead and skipping steps.
Let's do this step-by-step. First admit the US and Iran are on equal moral ground here.
Then we can talk about what to do about it.
First Class Citizen Twice Over
Equal Moral ground?....maybe in your mind.
Wow...
Wow...
kallend 2,150
QuoteYou seem to want to hold the US accountable for actions in Iraq, and yet you don't seem to hold any other nation accountable for the ongoing violence?
Please explain....I just don't understand that ideology
Umm, In March 2003 the US invaded Iraq, ran the country for a while, and then installed a puppet government. The US is still in control and has an army of occupation over there. How can it not be accountable? Have you been sleeping these past 4 years?
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
crwtom 0
QuoteYou seem to want to hold the US accountable for actions in Iraq, and yet you don't seem to hold any other nation accountable for the ongoing violence?
it's rather simple and called the Pottery Barn Rule
There weren't any Iranian, Syrian, or Al Quaeda supported people blowing up markets and killing 100's cilivian in a single day before the invasion.
Hence that's what the US broke and that's what the US owns.
Cheers, T
*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true
billvon 3,120
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>U.S. Can Prove Iran's Iraq Role
>Serial numbers and markings on explosives used in Iraq provide "pretty
>good" evidence that Iran is providing either weapons or technology for
>militants there, Defense Secretary Robert Gates asserted Friday."
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."
"We know for a fact that there are weapons there."
"What we know from UN inspectors over the course of the last decade is that Saddam Hussein possesses thousands of chemical warheads, that he possesses hundreds of liters of very dangerous toxins that can kill millions of people."
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat."
"You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two."
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
>Serial numbers and markings on explosives used in Iraq provide "pretty
>good" evidence that Iran is providing either weapons or technology for
>militants there, Defense Secretary Robert Gates asserted Friday."
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."
"We know for a fact that there are weapons there."
"What we know from UN inspectors over the course of the last decade is that Saddam Hussein possesses thousands of chemical warheads, that he possesses hundreds of liters of very dangerous toxins that can kill millions of people."
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat."
"You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two."
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
Then we're screwed.
FWIW, I doubt the US public would tolerate Bush taking military action against Iran, even if seemingly warranted. (Then again, maybe I'm giving The People too much credit...?)
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