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willard

Why Wikipedia is not an accepted reference.

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Wasn't refering to you, sorry if you thought I was.

Any goal has long since vanished. This thread has degenerated into basically nothing. I made a mistake and admitted it. Several times.
Kallend didn't use common sense, didn't bother to confirm the meaning of an equation that was obvious, and chose to insult me because of a mistake he made and won't admit.
I once pointed out an error to a chem prof. He was using a faulty method for a temp conversion. When I pointed this out to him after class he didn't insult me and tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. He had me go back to his office where he asked me to show him what I thought he was doing wrong. We then ran through several problems to confirm what I found. He never once acted in a manner other than courteous and grateful. He then went back over the last midterm and quiz, regraded them , and changed everyones grade if it was warranted. The Profs who are the most successful are, interestingly, the ones who learn as much from their students as the students do from them.
Some just think too much of themselves to think they could learn from a lowly student.

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Evidently you're not smart enough to figure out something that simple. Stll true.
Equation in the form of Newtons 2nd law....we are discussing weight vs. mass......a mass unit is given....a unit is given that could be either weight or mass depending on the situation......and a figure that is obvious to any freshman engineering or physics student as the gravitational constant.....and you thought it was a mass-mass conversion??
Common sense score....1/10
I think you're the one who is confused.


chirp chirp chirp



:D:D:D:D:D

You are truly out of your depth discussing physics. I hope you never have to pass a quantum mechanics class with your concept of dimensional consistency.

Several people have now pointed out the exact same thing to you, but you keep digging and digging.

:D:D:D

PS the gravitational constant is 6.67300 × 10-11 m^3 kg^-1 s^-2. Sorry to burst your bubble again. Reference here since you clearly won't believe me otherwise.




Fixed it. I should have said "force" not "constant". Your common sense score just went up. It is now at 1.5/10

Try this one.
G=6.673*10^-11 N*m^2/kg^2

10^-11 works much better than 10-11 ;)

chirp chirp chirp
:D:D:D:D:D

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Wasn't referring to you, sorry if you thought I was.



I'm not a professor, so I figured I was safe.

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The Profs who are the most successful are, interestingly, the ones who learn as much from their students as the students do from them. Some just think too much of themselves to think they could learn from a lowly student.



Some people say they don't like internet message boards as a form of communication because meaning and emotion embedded in tone is lost, but I'd have to disagree. Furthermore, if you really believe in your signature line, you'd mind your tone.

You got your hands on a physics factoid regarding mass vs weight, and decided to share it on an internet message board, a place well known for its rampant infestation of smart-asses. You were then out-smart-assed by a physics professor, and things went down hill from there. At this point, trying to salvage any nobility from the matter is probably a lost cause.

If I were you, and I could manage to garner kallend's support in just one goal, I would have it be, "letting this thread die."

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Wasn't referring to you, sorry if you thought I was.



I'm not a professor, so I figured I was safe.

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The Profs who are the most successful are, interestingly, the ones who learn as much from their students as the students do from them. Some just think too much of themselves to think they could learn from a lowly student.



Some people say they don't like internet message boards as a form of communication because meaning and emotion embedded in tone is lost, but I'd have to disagree. Furthermore, if you really believe in your signature line, you'd mind your tone.

You got your hands on a physics factoid regarding mass vs weight, and decided to share it on an internet message board, a place well known for its rampant infestation of smart-asses. You were then out-smart-assed by a physics professor, and things went down hill from there. At this point, trying to salvage any nobility from the matter is probably a lost cause.

If I were you, and I could manage to garner kallend's support in just one goal, I would have it be, "letting this thread die."



Excellent point. However, I really don't care what Kallend thinks. His opinion matters not to me. Heck, he probably won't even admit to the typo in his GC. He'll probably blame that on me as well.
This thread will breath no more because of me.

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You do realize that graphic puts my percieved ablity and perceived score both at app. the 75th percentile, and the actual score in the 90th.

Thank you for the compliments!B|



The graph is from a paper I liked to just before that in this thread. The perception listed is of course self perception, as detailed in that paper.

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Kallend didn't use common sense, didn't bother to confirm the meaning of an equation that was obvious, and chose to insult me because of a mistake he made and won't admit.



The prof didn't make a mistake, the prof took your equation at face value.

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I once pointed out an error to a chem prof. He was using a faulty method for a temp conversion. When I pointed this out to him after class he didn't insult me and tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. He had me go back to his office where he asked me to show him what I thought he was doing wrong. We then ran through several problems to confirm what I found. He never once acted in a manner other than courteous and grateful. The Profs who are the most successful are, interestingly, the ones who learn as much from their students as the students do from them.



Except you haven't yet been able to show a case where kallend has been technically incorrect. And since you're not one of his students, I'm not sure what grounds you have to belittle his teaching methods?
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Fixed it. I should have said "force" not "constant".



You are killing me, stop please.

Force uses units of Newtons guess again.

Wikipedia has a nice explanation here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_universal_gravitation



Try again.

"The attractive force exerted by the Earth on an object is called the gravitational force. This force is directed toward the center of the earth , and it's magnitude is called the weight of an object."
Quoted directly from a text book.

Newtons are used in the SI system. 1 Newton =1 kilogram*9.8 m/sec^2
U.S.Customary uses slug*32.2ft/sec^2=pounds

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typo in his GC.



:D:D:D:D
Most ironic post ever.

This from the man who didn't know what G was a few posts ago (yes it's just G).



Your command of the English language isn't much better. In the context in which it was used as an abbreviation for the phrase gravitational constant, GC is quite correct. If it were to be used in an equation, then it would be incorrect.

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You were wrong. Wiki was right. That's all.


And I admitted as much. Crow tastes nasty.

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slugs*32.2=pounds

is ONLY correct if the pound is taken as a unit of mass. Otherwise it is dimensionally meaningless.



Kallend, I am surprised. You are saying Newton's Second Law is wrong? Several hundred years of scrutiny have proven that F=ma is fact.
.



OK, let's dissect your statements.

1. Newton's 2nd law is NOT f=ma. f=ma fails under many conditions (relativistic velocities, quantum mechanical conditions). Centuries of scrutiny have shown that f=ma is NOT fact. Newton's 2nd law is f=dp/dt when expressed as an equation (he gave it in words, not as an equation), a statement about rate of change of momentum. You were wrong, Newton was right.

2. Let's test your "Always has, always will" statement using the definition of slugs as mass m and pounds as force f:

You wrote:
"slugs*32.2=pounds. Always has, always will." (Post #40 of this thread)
and subsequently claimed it was the same as F=ma


So let's see: A mass of m = 1.0 slug is acted upon by a force F and accelerates at a rate of a=1.0ft.sec^-2. What was the force F?

According to "Always has, always will" willard's equation, the force is 1.0 x 32.2 = 32.2 pounds force.

According to F = ma, F = 1.0 x 1.0 = 1.0 pound force.

Seems to be a big difference here, willard. You were wrong.

Your first post was wrong, and most of your subsequent posts were wrong. You think that learning an equation or two is the same as learning physics - a very common error among freshmen.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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The Profs who are the most successful are, interestingly, the ones who learn as much from their students as the students do from them.



You've got to be kidding! Who's paying whom? And why?



There are profs who merely show up for lecture, give the same speach they have for the last twenty years, and then go back to their desk without ever getting to know any of their students.
Then there are the ones who have extended office hours. Who stay well after class to answer any questions the students have without tossing them off onto a TA. Who make an effort to get to know at least some of their students and to learn something from them. The best prof I have had yet did exctly that and proudly proclaimed that he learns something from every student he has. What a teacher learns from the student is rarely anything to do with the subject being taught in the classroom.

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You were wrong. Wiki was right. That's all.


And I admitted as much. Crow tastes nasty.

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slugs*32.2=pounds

is ONLY correct if the pound is taken as a unit of mass. Otherwise it is dimensionally meaningless.



Kallend, I am surprised. You are saying Newton's Second Law is wrong? Several hundred years of scrutiny have proven that F=ma is fact.
.



OK, let's dissect your statements.

1. Newton's 2nd law is NOT f=ma. f=ma fails under many conditions (relativistic velocities, quantum mechanical conditions). Newton's 2nd law is f=dp/dt, a statement of conservation of momentum. You were wrong.

2. Let's test your "Always has, always will" statement using the definition of slugs as mass m and pounds as force f:

You wrote:
"slugs*32.2=pounds. Always has, always will." (Post #40 of this thread
and subsequently claimed it was the same as F=ma


So let's see: A mass of m = 1.0 slug is acted upon by a force F and accelerates at a rate of a=1.0ft.sec^-2. What was the force F?

According to "Always has, always will" willard's equation, the force is 1.0 x 32.2 = 32.2 pounds force.

According to F = ma, F = 1.0 x 1.0 = 1.0 pound force.

Seems to be a big difference here, willard. You were wrong.

Your first post was wrong, and most of your subsequent posts were wrong. You think that learning an equation or two is the same as learning physics - a very common error among freshmen.




Sorry Kallend, but Newtons Second Law is most certainly Force =mass time * acceleration. Look it up.
I am by no means under the impression that I know all there is to know about physics.
If you would open your eyes and actually read the posts you will see that 1 slug times 32.2 (the force of gravity) = pounds(weight)

As you know there are more than one version of the law, depending upon application. This may help.
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/newton2.html

Changing what I wrote so it fits what you want it to fit doesn't prove anything. If this thread has accomplished anything, it has shown that I can admitt a mistake and you can't.

But then, maybe you have found a way to prove Newton wrong. But I doubt it.

Go ahead and flail away at me, I am done here.

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Fixed it. I should have said "force" not "constant".



You are killing me, stop please.

Force uses units of Newtons guess again.

Wikipedia has a nice explanation here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_universal_gravitation



Try again.

"The attractive force exerted by the Earth on an object is called the gravitational force. This force is directed toward the center of the earth , and it's magnitude is called the weight of an object."
Quoted directly from a text book.

Newtons are used in the SI system. 1 Newton =1 kilogram*9.8 m/sec^2
U.S.Customary uses slug*32.2ft/sec^2=pounds



Tell us, willard, does a mass of one slug weigh the same on the Moon? on Mars?

Remember you said "Always has, always will"
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Fixed it. I should have said "force" not "constant".



You are killing me, stop please.

Force uses units of Newtons guess again.

Wikipedia has a nice explanation here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_law_of_universal_gravitation



Try again.

"The attractive force exerted by the Earth on an object is called the gravitational force. This force is directed toward the center of the earth , and it's magnitude is called the weight of an object."
Quoted directly from a text book.

Newtons are used in the SI system. 1 Newton =1 kilogram*9.8 m/sec^2
U.S.Customary uses slug*32.2ft/sec^2=pounds



Tell us, willard, does a mass of one slug weigh the same on the Moon? on Mars?

Only in your little mind, Kallend.

Remember you said "Always has, always will"


At sea level on earth, Kallend, at sea level on earth.

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Sorry Kallend, but Newtons Second Law is most certainly Force =mass time * acceleration. Look it up.
I am by no means under the impression that I know all there is to know about physics..



What is "mass time"? IS it a new physical quantity you have just invented?

I have actually read Newton's Principia, have you? I know what he ACTUALLY wrote in his book, do you?

Newton's 2nd law (translated from Latin) is:


The rate of change of momentum of a body is proportional to the resultant force acting on the body and is in the same direction.

Do you see the words "mass" and "acceleration" in there? It's about MOMENTUM (given the symbol p in physics).

Rate of change of momentum is dp/dt

The 2nd law says dp/dt = C*f, where C is a constant.

You are out of your depth.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Remember you said "Always has, always will"


At sea level on earth, Kallend, at sea level on earth.



Take another look at your "Always has, always will" post. Here's a link so you can find it easily. I see NOTHING in there about Earth and sea level.

By the way, there are gravitational anomalies called "mascons" which result in variation in gravitational acceleration even on Earth.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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[

As you know there are more than one version of the law, depending upon application. This may help.
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/newton2.html

.



That's a very nice web page for kiddies - nice pictures, big print.:)
Did you notice the qualifier about "If the mass is a constant". Does that suggest anything to you?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Sorry Kallend, but Newtons Second Law is most certainly Force =mass time * acceleration. Look it up.
I am by no means under the impression that I know all there is to know about physics..



What is "mass time"? IS it a new physical quantity you have just invented?

I have actually read Newton's Principia, have you? I know what he ACTUALLY wrote in his book, do you?

Newton's 2nd law (translated from Latin) is:


The rate of change of momentum of a body is proportional to the resultant force acting on the body and is in the same direction.

Do you see the words "mass" and "acceleration" in there? It's about MOMENTUM (given the symbol p in physics).

Rate of change of momentum is dp/dt

The 2nd law says dp/dt = C*f, where C is a constant.

You are out of your depth.



mass time * was a typo. should read mass*accel.

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I have actually read Newton's Principia, have you? I know what he ACTUALLY wrote in his book, do you?



Am I supposed to be impressed? Do you expect people to bow to you because you read it. Reading something does not necessarily translate to understanding. It works both ways in our little exchange going on here.

F=ma is perfectly acceptable when mass is held constant. If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me. Just because you feel it's not the form you prefer to use doesn't make it wrong. Unless you are now claiming to not only be smarter than Isaac Newton, but smarter than all of NASA combined as well? Get off your perch, Kallend. Arrogance doesn't become you.

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Am I supposed to be impressed?



No - you are supposed to get your facts right before posting rubbish on the internet. I tell you what Newton wrote, and you counter it with a NASA web page designed for children.

You misquoted Newton,
you were wrong about Wikipedia,
you were wrong about "Always has, always will",
you were wrong about the gravitational constant,
you wrote a dimensionally incorrect equation,
you were wrong that F=ma is a fact proven over the centuries...

In fact pretty much everything you have written in this thread shows that you don't have a very good grasp of basic physics.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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In fact pretty much everything you have written in this thread shows that you don't have a very good grasp of basic physics



Same can be said of you, Kallend.

Unlike you I admit when I've made a mistake. Unlike you I don't see someone's typo and ride them constantly about it and keep bringing it up even after it has been corrected. Unlike you I don't claim to know more than all of the scientific community combined.
But most importantly, unlike you I realize there is more to learn in this world than any one person could come close to learning. When you're through learning, you're through.

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F=ma is perfectly acceptable when mass is held constant. If it's good enough for NASA, it's good enough for me. Just because you feel it's not the form you prefer to use doesn't make it wrong. Unless you are now claiming to not only be smarter than Isaac Newton, but smarter than all of NASA combined as well? Get off your perch, Kallend. Arrogance doesn't become you.



Dude, nasa use c*f=dp/dt not f=m*a. The one thing you need to take into account when designing rockets is all the mass you eject out the back. If you really are trying to get a degree in this stuff, you'd do well to listen to Kallend and not argue the toss with him because it seems to me that you really don't know what your talking about.

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In fact pretty much everything you have written in this thread shows that you don't have a very good grasp of basic physics



Same can be said of you, Kallend.

Unlike you I don't claim to know more than all of the scientific community combined.
.



This is really funny. You have a whole bunch of people here, all better trained in science than you, telling you what the scientific community says, and you argue and argue with them and tell them they are wrong. And then you have the nerve to make accusations like that.

You should have quit while you were just a little way behind.

Just out of curiosity, what have I written that you think is contrary to accepted physics?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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"The attractive force exerted by the Earth on an object is called the gravitational force. This force is directed toward the center of the earth , and it's magnitude is called the weight of an object."



The key word here is exerted. How do you calculate the gravitational force exerted on a mass? You multiply it by the thing you don't know what to call and I won't tell you. But it's none of the things you have said it is so far, and it certainly isn't force, Gravitational force is the product. Here's one for you, the gravitational force exerted on the Earth by you is the same as the gravitational force exerted on you by the Earth [edit to add obviously along opposite directions] (the Earth is massive and you don't see it moved by small forces), but the vector quantity you don't know what to call is very different in each direction if you choose to do the calculation. It can be done, the only reason I state this is to emphasize just how badly wrong you are about what gravitational force is.

You really are hopeless at this, you should stop. You keep claiming flagrantly wrong stuff and arguing over it.

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