Guest #1 February 7, 2007 Washington Post reporter William Arkin has really pissed me off. In this blog, he refers to US soldiers as mercenaries. What an asshole. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #2 February 7, 2007 I don't agree with him, at all, but in the essay you've linked, I don't see where he calls the US Servicemen "mercenaries".So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #3 February 7, 2007 Funny, soldiers like you, me and my son among 1000s of others give him the freedom of speech to post such garbage. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,611 #4 February 7, 2007 QuoteI don't agree with him, at all, but in the essay you've linked, I don't see where he calls the US Servicemen "mercenaries". Unfortunately he does refer to the army as a "mercenary... oops, volunteer force" which I think undermines his point somewhat. Apart from that though, why specifically do you disagree? I just don't see why civilians who want to be seen to "support the troops" need to give up their political opinions.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #5 February 7, 2007 The following is from a letter I fired off to the Washington Post. Since this idiot repeated his comments on NBC, I sent a similar letter to the president of General Electric, the corporation that owns NBC. . Let me cite a few examples of his offensive comments: “I'm all for everyone expressing their opinion, even those who wear the uniform of the United States Army. But I also hope that military commanders took the soldiers aside after the story and explained to them why it wasn't for them to disapprove of the American people.” Perhaps Bill needs to understand that US military personnel are US citizens (mostly) and have a constitutional right to express their opinion...just as Bill does, however distastful his may be. “These soldiers should be grateful that the American public, which by all polls overwhelmingly disapproves of the Iraq war and the President's handling of it, do still offer their support to them, and their respect.” It is Bill who should be grateful that these military people are out in the field fighting for his freedom and, yes, his life. “Through every Abu Ghraib and Haditha, through every rape and murder, the American public has indulged those in uniform, accepting that the incidents were the product of bad apples or even of some administration or command order.” "Every" Abu Ghraib and Haditha??? There has been one of each and some bad apple soldiers, all the way up to the rank of Brigadier General, have paid a price for that behavior. Haditha? There hasn't even been a court martial of the Marines (not soldiers - there is a difference, though Bill is probably ignorant of that fact) so what ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty". Bill is trying these Marines in the press. I find that offensive. “Sure it is the junior enlisted men who go to jail, but even at anti-war protests, the focus is firmly on the White House and the policy. We just don't see very man "baby killer" epithets being thrown around these days, no one in uniform is being spit upon.” Evidently, poor Bill doesn’t read the “mainstream media” either and missed the coverage of the moonbats in Washington, DC who spat at the soldier back from Iraq who is still recovering at Walter Reed after losing both his legs to an IED. His ignorance may be bliss to him, but offensive to me. “So, we pay the soldiers a decent wage, take care of their families, provide them with housing and medical care and vast social support systems and ship obscene amenities into the war zone for them, we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society? “ "because they are above society?" No, Bill, they are not above society; rather, they are members of society and entitled to express their opinions which are undoubtedly founded on first-hand knowledge of what is really happening in Iraq. Their opinion is based on their personal experiences in Iraq. Bill, upon what do you base your opinions. The drivel that is reported in the so-called mainstream media that fewer and fewer people are reading or watching any more (NY Times is losing millions these days. I wonder why). By the way, to what "obscene amenities" are you referring? MREs? Body armor? Bottled water? Ammunition? Access to the internet? What they may be receiving from the taxpayers in this country is nothing greater than what most of us in this country take for granted. “But it is the United States and instead this NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work.” Mercenary? Our soldiers, sailors, Marines, airmen? No, Bill. They are not mercenaries. There goes your ignorance and arrogance again. A mercenary is defined as someone "motivated only by a desire for money or material gain" You know, ...someone like you. If you bothered to ever meet and speak with some of our military personnel, you would find their motivation to be something much greater than the love of money and power. “America needs to ponder what it is we really owe those in uniform. I don't believe America needs a draft though I imagine we'd be having a different discussion if we had one.” Bill, you owe those US miliary personnel in uniform - whether serving today, yesterday, or last century (like I did), or back in 1776 - your very existence. Literally, millions of citizens of this country have put on the uniform of our armed forces, gone in harm's way, and a great number paid for it with their lives. They spent their lives buying your freedom with their blood. Don't forget it and don't belittle it. Your drivel offends me and would offend hundreds of thousands of others in this country...if they bothered to read this trash."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #6 February 7, 2007 QuoteI don't agree with him, at all, but in the essay you've linked, I don't see where he calls the US Servicemen "mercenaries". I'll help you see it (emphasis mine) "But it is the United States, and the recent NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work." steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #7 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI don't agree with him, at all, but in the essay you've linked, I don't see where he calls the US Servicemen "mercenaries". I'll help you see it (emphasis mine) "But it is the United States, and the recent NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work." So, by his own standards, William Arkin is ALSO a mercenary. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 February 7, 2007 Edit, -- thanks Steve...I see the comment now... QuoteApart from that though, why specifically do you disagree? I just don't see why civilians who want to be seen to "support the troops" need to give up their political opinions. I disagree with his perception on this. No one is asking anyone to give up a political opinion, what I have been conveying is that the politics needs to stop at the water's edge. Many people have lost a sense of duty in my opinion. A sense of duty which needs to take the helm and tell our troops that they are supported unconditionally to get this mission done. The debate about what to do with Iraq was conducted worldwide before the invasion. To continue debate after the course is chosen is a waste of oxygen. Maintaining debate over what is currently happening needs to reach a more substantive level as to ensuring that not only are our troops enabled to do their job, but doesn't screw the Iraqis in the process, ultimately allowing them to come home. Not supporting a policy means not supporting instruments of that policy (it is, in effect, a stand of "no confidence" as Sen. McCain noted a couple days ago). If you (not "you" jakee, but whomever) don't support it, then don't sugar coat it. It's your right, and if you have conviction behind your beliefs, then it is your duty to stand by them. I'm not advocating spitting on us or anything like that. I'm advocating honesty. This guy Arkin doesn't support the troops. His self-righteous indignation is there for the world to see. If that's his stand, fine. It's his right and it's clear what his view is.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #9 February 7, 2007 QuoteI see where he points out that we're paid a "wage", but he does not actually use the word "mercenary" in this column. That's all I'm pointing out. You are serious?? I cut and pasted, bold typed and underlined the word -- and you still don't think he called US soldiers mercanaries??? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #10 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI see where he points out that we're paid a "wage", but he does not actually use the word "mercenary" in this column. That's all I'm pointing out. You are serious?? I cut and pasted, bold typed and underlined the word -- and you still don't think he called US soldiers mercanaries??? Sorry dude...I edited my comment, and was taking my time writing my post, so I missed yours..etc.. et.c...yada yada... So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #11 February 7, 2007 no problem. I'm too sensitive about soldiers and stuff. My days are passed but I have kids serving, and I guess I take the parent approach too often. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even if it is ridiculous IMHO. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #12 February 7, 2007 QuoteFunny, soldiers like you, me and my son among 1000s of others give him the freedom of speech to post such garbage. Oddly, in all the time I've been reading Mark's posts, I never realized he had served. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #13 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteFunny, soldiers like you, me and my son among 1000s of others give him the freedom of speech to post such garbage. Oddly, in all the time I've been reading Mark's posts, I never realized he had served. Blues, Dave Maybe he hasn't I assumed with the flight helmet avatar. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #14 February 7, 2007 Guess what I think should happen to this asswipe? Easy guess huh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #15 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteI don't agree with him, at all, but in the essay you've linked, I don't see where he calls the US Servicemen "mercenaries". Unfortunately he does refer to the army as a "mercenary... oops, volunteer force" which I think undermines his point somewhat. He should try living on their pay. His blog would be a lot more pissy. Dumb hack, these guys swear an oath of allegiance and are bound by a code of military justice, what doesn't he understand about that? I guess any dope like this be called a journalist these days? Quote Apart from that though, why specifically do you disagree? I just don't see why civilians who want to be seen to "support the troops" need to give up their political opinions. This takes "support the troops" to a new low of non support. If you say you support the troops and then don't actually support them then you're a liar and infact worse than a liar IMHO. This guy does not support our troops, period. You don't get to make that kind of claim while calling them mercenaries no matter how others weasle their claims of support. If you think they're mercenaries or want to make snide comments implying it then uncheck the "support the troops" box and move on, call it an exercise in self discovery or whatever I don't care but knock off he phoney "I support the troops" claim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #16 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteFunny, soldiers like you, me and my son among 1000s of others give him the freedom of speech to post such garbage. Oddly, in all the time I've been reading Mark's posts, I never realized he had served. Blues, Dave Maybe he hasn't I assumed with the flight helmet avatar. heh The picture from which my avatar was created was taken on my HALO jump at WFFC 2005. I did 4 years in the USAF. mh ."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #17 February 7, 2007 QuoteI did 4 years in the USAF. mh . Thanks for your service. I'm sure you were well paid, you mercenary. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #18 February 7, 2007 Damn you mean I wasn't the only one that profitted finacially by meing a merc soldier? Well I am off to spend the vast wealth bestowed upon me by the VA... I wonder if I will have enough change left over to buy a DeHaviland Dash 8? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,182 #19 February 7, 2007 To quote Gravitymaster, SC, 9/17/2007: "A Blog. Now there's credibility".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,611 #20 February 7, 2007 QuoteThis guy Arkin doesn't support the troops. His self-righteous indignation is there for the world to see. If that's his stand, fine. It's his right and it's clear what his view is. After re-reading the article I do actually agree with you there - the man is smug, condescending and rude. I'm not at all surprised that people accuse him of not supporting the troops. I still do not see the validity of your counter argument though. Supporting the troops is independant of one's opinion on the mission. It's just wrong to suggest that someone who opposes a war should turn around and pretend to support it as soon as it begins. You say the debate was conducted wordwide before the invasion - yes it was, and opponents were simply trampled over. You can't (not you, the powers that be) ignore all opposing opinions then turn round and say "You damn well better be with us now" as soon as the first shot is fires. A bad plan remains a bad plan once it gets put into action. QuoteNot supporting a policy means not supporting instruments of that policy (it is, in effect, a stand of "no confidence" as Sen. McCain noted a couple days ago). Absolutely not. A plan can be unsupported for many reasons, not least ethical ones. Another might be if the plan itself is simply not sufficiently well thought out to allow its 'instruments' a reasonable chance of success. It is NOT a vote of no confidence in the troops to say that the invasion of Iraq was unjustifiable and it is NOT a vote of no confidence in the troops to say the planning for the occupation was hopelessly optimistic. The case for withdrawing the troops now is along the lines of "Sorry guys, we fucked you over and put you into a really bad situation now we're going to bring you home" The case for staying and 'supporting the troops' is along the lines of "Sorry guys, we fucked you over and put you into a really bad situation now we're going to keep you there doing the same old same old until someone else comes along to take responsibility for this thing"Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
narcimund 0 #21 February 7, 2007 QuoteGuess what I think should happen to this asswipe? Easy guess huh? Oooo. Choose me. Let ME guess. You want him murdered, right? That's what you always say whenever someone offends you, so it's a pretty easy one. First Class Citizen Twice Over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #22 February 7, 2007 Wrong the usual... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #23 February 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteFunny, soldiers like you, me and my son among 1000s of others give him the freedom of speech to post such garbage. Oddly, in all the time I've been reading Mark's posts, I never realized he had served. Blues, Dave Maybe he hasn't I assumed with the flight helmet avatar. heh The picture from which my avatar was created was taken on my HALO jump at WFFC 2005. I did 4 years in the USAF. mh . Thanks for your service Mark. I'm laughin at myself for never having made the connection. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm951 0 #24 February 7, 2007 This guy is just another example of the luny left. I'd bet he was hanging with Hanoi Jane at the last march. Big Kudos to those who serve in any branch. Both of my sons are USAF. Oldest enlisted on 9/11. His younger brother will commission in a couple months and from there on to flight school. Both serve out of a sense of duty to the country that allows freedom to all. Both are Eagle Scouts from that dreaded paramilitary neocon bootcamp, the BSA. And for the libs out there, they're both devout Christians as well. Far too many kids live off of the fat of the land, taking freedom for granted and never gain a sense of what it takes to ensure that freedom that allows them to be what I L Lenin called the "useful idiots." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #25 February 7, 2007 Quotefreedom for granted and never gain a sense of what it takes to ensure that freedom that allows them to be what I L Lenin called the "useful idiots." The current mission in Iraq has precious little to do with freedom for americans, but I can understand that thinking that makes people feel better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
