freethefly 6 #101 February 2, 2007 Quote At 4:30 am I had to go in for a woman who woke up with chest "discomfort" and felt nauseated. Her only health issues were diabetes and a hiatal hernia. She's 71 I recently read that certian groups are less likely to experience chest pains with a heart attack. These include women, non whites of both sex and people who have had a stroke. Furthermore, people who are 75 and older or people who have nerve damage caused by diabetes. The signs that they may be having a heart attack are: shortness of breath, nausea or vomiting, pain that radiates down one or both arms, back pain, neck pain, jaw or stomach pain, cold sweat, severe headaches - more common in older adults, dizziness or fainting, anxiety, weakness, and a strong feeling of doom. She made the right call by going to the ER and you, Lindsey, made the right call with your concern. Hats off to the surgeons who performed the operation without regards to payment."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #102 February 2, 2007 Quote What you're doing is using healthcare as a mask for wealth redistribution. Why is it that when you take from the rich and give to the poor it's "redistribution of wealth" but when you take from the poor and give to the rich it's a "free market econmy"? It's freaking bizarro Robin Hood economics. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #103 February 2, 2007 But it's not this surgeon or this cardiologist in this instance doing a good thing. It's them doing the right thing over and over and over again. And not just them. It's the general surgeon who I sent the woman with appendicitis to that accepted her without question....and the gynecologist who in turn accepted her when the appendicitis turned out to be ovarian torsion. It's the gastroenterologist whom I sent the diabetic with gastroparesis to. It's the pulmonologist and the interventional radiologist whom I consulted for a guy with a mediastinal abscess. It's all the family doctors who see these folks to begin with and take care of them every day. I guess that's why it irritates the hell out of me when I hear people slamming us for what we do. Or maybe I'm just too sensitive....lol. "Suck it up, cupcake!"-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #104 February 2, 2007 Pareto Efficiency It's not my idea, but it's difficult to disagree with, imo. Definitely not the only way of looking at things, but it is key to most contemporary economics. Two big problems are 1- people develop misplaced expectations of what they have (they misunderestimate risks) and 2- people seem to really care about their relative wealth more than their actual wealth. People feel truly aggrieved when they don't keep up with the Joneses, even when their standard of living stays the same or even improves but more slowly than the Joneses. Tough nuts, imo.My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #105 February 2, 2007 I was very unjust by grouping all doctors together with the ones who are solely there for the money. After a day of being on the phone with my caseworker trying to figure out just how to get the care that is needed I was very bitter and you were right in saying so. But, at a certian level, I am just in being so. Yes, there are far more doctors who will go out of their way to do what they signed on to do than there are doctors who will not. If I riled you. I am sorry for doing so."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #106 February 2, 2007 I think people just really don't know. Talking about shitty care in small town ERs....(which, of course, is often me)....there are no pharmacies open near here from noon on Friday until Monday morning. Whatever medications I prescribe are given out of the hospital's "medicine closet." Of course we gotta try to make do with what we have on hand, but it is given directly from our supplies to patients to get them through the weekend. Sometimes when we don't have what we need on hand, we can call one of the local pharmacists who will usually go open up shop to meet someone's need. But small town ERs suck...lol...and poor people are routinely denied access.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #107 February 2, 2007 QuoteQuote What you're doing is using healthcare as a mask for wealth redistribution. Why is it that when you take from the rich and give to the poor it's "redistribution of wealth" but when you take from the poor and give to the rich it's a "free market econmy"? It's freaking bizarro Robin Hood economics. I'm sure you have a cite to prove that...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,151 #108 February 2, 2007 Quote I'm sure you have a cite to prove that... Do you have a cite to prove that? Seems to be your SOP when you don't have an answer.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #109 February 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote What you're doing is using healthcare as a mask for wealth redistribution. Why is it that when you take from the rich and give to the poor it's "redistribution of wealth" but when you take from the poor and give to the rich it's a "free market econmy"? It's freaking bizarro Robin Hood economics. I'm sure you have a cite to prove that... Jesus Christ, it's an F-ing opinion. Whenever someone drops some con pesticide, it's all about a cite. Neal, the con protocol is nasty, selfish, and exclusive, which I believe is what Zippo was referring to to some degree. It's his fucking opinion, if that's what he meant, take it as such. BTW, that's my opinion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #110 February 2, 2007 QuoteQuote What you're doing is using healthcare as a mask for wealth redistribution. Why is it that when you take from the rich and give to the poor it's "redistribution of wealth" but when you take from the poor and give to the rich it's a "free market econmy"? It's freaking bizarro Robin Hood economics. Forget any cite... WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I mean besides the fact that wealth re-distribution through taxation is simple a form of legal extortion, while any money "the poor" contribute to the free market economy is completely voluntary. And people like to whine about "the poor" being stuck in their circumstances. Go read The Grapes of Wrath. Nice piece of fiction to demonstrate a historical reality. Throughout this thread, a number of people have offered "solutions" that just scream ignorance of of economic reality as well as human nature. You can't take away the incentives for the providers and expect the same caliber of care. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #111 February 2, 2007 I don't have a cite either. But in my poor years I paid next to nothing in taxes. Last year I made a little bit more money because I did at least work for 6 months after finishing school. Being a single mom with a $20,000 income that year, I got 2-3K more back at tax time than I had paid in during the year. I thought it redistributed the "wealth" in a pretty favorable way. This year my tax bill will be 30% of my income...also redistributing the wealth, but in a direction that's not as favorable to me. However, I'm making enough that after paying out the nose, I'll still have enough. I don't mind too much....yet. Maybe after I get rich and greedy off all the bottom-feeders I'll develop a different attitude. We'll see. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #112 February 2, 2007 QuoteQuote I'm sure you have a cite to prove that... Do you have a cite to prove that? Seems to be your SOP when you don't have an answer. No, but it's usually my SOP when someone makes a bullshit claim with no data to back it up... sort of like claiming guns cause violence.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #113 February 2, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote What you're doing is using healthcare as a mask for wealth redistribution. Why is it that when you take from the rich and give to the poor it's "redistribution of wealth" but when you take from the poor and give to the rich it's a "free market econmy"? It's freaking bizarro Robin Hood economics. I'm sure you have a cite to prove that... Jesus Christ, it's an F-ing opinion. Whenever someone drops some con pesticide, it's all about a cite. Neal, the con protocol is nasty, selfish, and exclusive, which I believe is what Zippo was referring to to some degree. It's his fucking opinion, if that's what he meant, take it as such. BTW, that's my opinion Sorry you feel so picked-upon.... On further consideration... no I don't. Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #114 February 2, 2007 QuoteI don't have a cite either. But in my poor years I paid next to nothing in taxes. Last year I made a little bit more money because I did at least work for 6 months after finishing school. Being a single mom with a $20,000 income that year, I got 2-3K more back at tax time than I had paid in during the year. I thought it redistributed the "wealth" in a pretty favorable way. This year my tax bill will be 30% of my income...also redistributing the wealth, but in a direction that's not as favorable to me. However, I'm making enough that after paying out the nose, I'll still have enough. I don't mind too much....yet. Maybe after I get rich and greedy off all the bottom-feeders I'll develop a different attitude. We'll see. linz Aint it fun... looking at the tax bill and going "WTF"??? Of course, now that you're "rich", your fellows are going to say you aren't paying enough and getting a break from the gov't...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #115 February 2, 2007 Aint it fun... looking at the tax bill and going "WTF"??? Of course, now that you're "rich", your fellows are going to say you aren't paying enough and getting a break from the gov't... LOL!!! I think it's a far cry from "getting a break," but I don't mind so much either. I'm thankful that the hard work's paying off and that I was given the chance to do what I'm doing. Not everyone has the opportunity. I could see myself getting a little pissy, though, if I'm paying $80K or more in taxes being called a neo-con because I disagree that I owe more....-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #116 February 2, 2007 QuoteForget any cite... WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? I'm talking about a society where one human being cares about another, and may be willing to forego a new diamond for the vault so that someone else might get health care, or an education. Quote I mean besides the fact that wealth re-distribution through taxation is simple a form of legal extortion, Maybe you should read "The Duty of Civil Disobedience" and do something about it. Quote while any money "the poor" contribute to the free market economy is completely voluntary. Really? Buying heating oil so you don't freeze to death is voluntary? (see record Exxon profits) Buying food is voluntary? Quote Throughout this thread, a number of people have offered "solutions" that just scream ignorance of of economic reality Your economic reality. There are options, to a degree. Quoteas well as human nature. I guess you're referring to the theories about man being greedy, and inherently evil? I'n neither. QuoteYou can't take away the incentives for the providers and expect the same caliber of care. Healing the sick is the incentive. Did the unpaid village medicine man in centuries past do it for the money? No. The world can change, we just have to be willing to change it. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #117 February 2, 2007 Healing the sick is the incentive. Did the unpaid village medicine man in centuries past do it for the money? No. The world can change, we just have to be willing to change it. I think that's what we should go back to....lol. Quality healthcare by the village medicine man. Ya' know, you may be onto something. Those who can pay can still go see a real doctor if they want....lol.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #118 February 2, 2007 Canada has your dream plan, you should move there. Never mind the story about the guy with brain cancer that had to come to the States and pay out of pocket for an MRI, since the state decided it wasn't an urgent requirement.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #119 February 2, 2007 Quote I think that's what we should go back to....lol. Quality healthcare by the village medicine man. Ya' know, you may be onto something. Those who can pay can still go see a real doctor if they want....lol. My comparison is fair, and yours is not. The medicine man of the past is the doctor of today. He used the best practices of the day, just as doctors now do. In 100 years the medicine of today will likely be looked at as extremely primitive. And I never advocated a return to medicine men. I was simply illustrating the lack of financial gain as the sole motivation to help the sick. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #120 February 2, 2007 Great idea! Let's ALL work for free!! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #121 February 2, 2007 QuoteQuote I think that's what we should go back to....lol. Quality healthcare by the village medicine man. Ya' know, you may be onto something. Those who can pay can still go see a real doctor if they want....lol. My comparison is fair, and yours is not. The medicine man of the past is the doctor of today. He used the best practices of the day, just as doctors now do. In 100 years the medicine of today will likely be looked at as extremely primitive. And I never advocated a return to medicine man. I was simply illustrating their lack of financial gain as the sole motivation to help the sick. You're full of shit or wearing blinders if you truly believe that financial gain is the sole motivation of physicians to help the sick. Or maybe you're just spouting some line. I don't know. Maybe you'll change your mind when it's you or your child who someone's busting their ass to save....whether or not you can pay. I'm making some pretty damn good money right now helping the sick. But I'm working over 100 hours every week. Break it down that way, and it doesn't seem like so much. Add to it the bullets you sweat a few times a week when things get real hairy, and it REALLY doesn't seem like much. The pucker factor can be intense sometimes. Add to that the bullshit that people like you like to spout off about my motivation, and it really, really, REALLY doesn't seem like much. Armchair quarterbacks....gotta love 'em. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #122 February 2, 2007 Quote You're full of shit or wearing blinders if you truly believe that financial gain is the sole motivation of physicians to help the sick. Or maybe you're just spouting some line. Whoa there Nelly! Taking this discussion personally are we? Chill the fuck out. I was not the one saying that financial gain is the main reason for the actions of doctors and eveyone else in the "free market." That is what others were saying. I was actually defending those who heal by saying that there must be some other motivation besides money, and therefore money is not the end all be all in the equation. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #123 February 2, 2007 You were illustrating their lack of financial gain as the sole motivation of medicine men (as opposed as physicians) to help the sick. I am pretty chilled out already. Any more chilled and I wouldn't get off my ass. I do take those bullshit comments personally, because it's me that you're insulting, though. I LOVE my work. I usually read the crap that folks on here go on about without saying anything. But today I just felt more like responding. AND, fwiw, there is no good comparison between the Medicine Men of the past (or of today....they do still exist) and physicians of today. We're far more knowledgable and capable. If folks prefer being treated by the Medicine Man though, it's no skin off my nose. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #124 February 2, 2007 Quote I do take those bullshit comments personally, because it's me that you're insulting, though. I LOVE my work. Well, they are not bullshit, simply because you disagree. They are simply opinions. As far as taking things personally, I have been insulted, as well as my sister )the pregnant girl I mentioned earlier, but did not identify), but tried to stay on topic. I don't know who here is a doctor or lawyer, so there is nothing directed at any individual. And my comparison of doctors and medicine men, in the context I framed it, and for the reasons stated, is a perfectly fair analogy. Now, don't you have some leaches to apply or cuppings, or pressure relief holes to drill into skulls or something? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #125 February 2, 2007 And my comparison of doctors and medicine men, in the context I framed it, and for the reasons stated, is a perfectly fair analogy. Sure it's fair, and I think it's a reasonable place for people to go for healthcare if they don't want to pay a real doctor. Well, they are not bullshit, simply because you disagree. They are simply opinions. And it is bullshit. You're stating something that supports your agenda without any real knowledge about the people you're insulting. I realize you're not directing anything at an individual, but your generalizations do that anyway. I think it's funny that you and a few others jump all over generalizations made about people whom you feel a need to protect, but you can't see that your generalizations are just as ignorant. It's as erroneous as me saying that black people can't speak plain English.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
