Clemson Probes Party That Mocked Blacks

[kallend 2,150]

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If my flock broke church rules, I'd have the authority to do what I must, but they submitted to my authority my allowing me to be their pastor. Do college profs have that same type of authority (as pastors) outside the college?

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I don't think it's the profs - isn't it the "administration"?

Anyhow, matriculating into a university is joining a community that professes certain values - not unlike a church. (The first universities were indeed entirely run by the church). Generally those values are clearly laid out in the "Mission, Vision and Values" statement of the university. If you don't subscribe to those values, maybe you should go elsewhere.

Edited to add: you might wish to read this before making any assumptions about what is or is not permitted at Clemson.

stuaff.clemson.edu/docs/Student_Code_of_Conduct.pdf

Got your hair-splitter out today?

Technically, these students may have violated the university's mission statement or its general code of conduct, but these types of non-specific infractions are common occurrences on most campuses. College students being college students, there going to be infractions. These "infractions" might be considered undesirable but tolerated.

As far as any specific infractions go, I found none regarding off campus behavior.

So it's OK as long as everyone else is doing it? That sounds like the "CDIF" defense. Did you ever try that on a cop who stopped you for speeding?

As far as location goes, I didn't see any paragraph stating "This code of conduct only applies on Clemson's Campus, anything goes elsewhere". If a student plagiarizes a term paper but they do it off campus, that's OK with you?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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Who really cares what stupid stuff people do off campus? .

We do.

If one of our students was convicted of, say, sexual assault or drug dealing that occurred off campus, and was given a supended sentence by the court, he (or she) would ipso facto be in violation of OUR code of conduct and would likely be dismissed.

But in this case we're basically talking about tacky behavior, right?

Right.

AS long as Clemson follows its published procedures, I have no problem with whatever they decide. However, they do have published procedures and these need to be followed.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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If my flock broke church rules, I'd have the authority to do what I must, but they submitted to my authority my allowing me to be their pastor. Do college profs have that same type of authority (as pastors) outside the college?

.

I don't think it's the profs - isn't it the "administration"?

Anyhow, matriculating into a university is joining a community that professes certain values - not unlike a church. (The first universities were indeed entirely run by the church). Generally those values are clearly laid out in the "Mission, Vision and Values" statement of the university. If you don't subscribe to those values, maybe you should go elsewhere.

Edited to add: you might wish to read this before making any assumptions about what is or is not permitted at Clemson.

stuaff.clemson.edu/docs/Student_Code_of_Conduct.pdf

Got your hair-splitter out today?

Technically, these students may have violated the university's mission statement or its general code of conduct, but these types of non-specific infractions are common occurrences on most campuses. College students being college students, there going to be infractions. These "infractions" might be considered undesirable but tolerated.

As far as any specific infractions go, I found none regarding off campus behavior.

So it's OK as long as everyone else is doing it? That sounds like the "CDIF" defense. Did you ever try that on a cop who stopped you for speeding?

Cops typically don't ticket people for going 1mph over the speed limit, even though that's technically breaking the law. Similarly, cops don't monitor parking lots for bars, even though they could easily arrest most people leaving after 1 am.

I'm sure most universities have rules about disorderly conduct, but mostly enforce it when the offender is causing a significant disturbance.

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As far as location goes, I didn't see any paragraph stating "This code of conduct only applies on Clemson's Campus, anything goes elsewhere". If a student plagiarizes a term paper but they do it off campus, that's OK with you?

It was addressed in the Jurisdiction statement.

[yjumpinoz 0]

I think its funny that freedom of speech/expression isn't so funny when it is something that bothers you. sorry general statement not directed to NCclimber.

[Trent 0]

Now if we can just get SOMEONE to investigate all those black comedians who wouldn't have any routine at all if it weren't for mocking white people!

Oh, hello again!

[jenfly00 0]

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Steve ,You aren't missing a thing.

Well, needless to say I think the kids are fairly ignorant, but I don't subscribe to colleges monitoring off campus activity.

I know some Christian colleges have a morality clause that kids sign (no drinking, no smoking, no sex, etc) but what right would Clemson have to intervene?

ALL universities and colleges have a code of conduct. Students accept this when matriculating. If they don't like the code of conduct they don't have to enroll - it's not like being drafted into the Marine Corps. There are over 3,000 other college choices available to them in the USA besides Clemson.

If students violate the code of conduct, they are subject to discipinary action, such as dismissal. I expect Clemson will follow its procedures to the letter.

This would apply to an off campus party?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[billvon 3,120]

>If one of our students was convicted of, say, sexual assault or drug
> dealing that occurred off campus, and was given a supended
> sentence by the court, he (or she) would ipso facto be in violation of
> OUR code of conduct and would likely be dismissed.

Right - but we're talking about people being dicks here, not about them being convicted of any crimes.

[Lindsey 0]

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>If one of our students was convicted of, say, sexual assault or drug
> dealing that occurred off campus, and was given a supended
> sentence by the court, he (or she) would ipso facto be in violation of
> OUR code of conduct and would likely be dismissed.

Right - but we're talking about people being dicks here, not about them being convicted of any crimes.

AND (if I remember correctly) "nobody has a right to not be offended."

It's nice when people are kind to each other, but sometimes we're just not.

linz

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[kallend 2,150]

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>If one of our students was convicted of, say, sexual assault or drug
> dealing that occurred off campus, and was given a supended
> sentence by the court, he (or she) would ipso facto be in violation of
> OUR code of conduct and would likely be dismissed.

Right - but we're talking about people being dicks here, not about them being convicted of any crimes.

Making the point that codes of conduct are NOT limited to on campus conduct.

Clemson has procedures to deal with misconduct and I'm sure it will follow them.

I am not passing any judgment on this particular case, since I don't have the details.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Lindsey 0]

Do you really refer to your congregation as your "flock?" Is that a little condescending? I was thinking of how being referred to as a "congregation" and a "flock" differs. It's probably a different thread.... But it seems like calling people of the church your "flock" puts them in a childlike and dependent role. What's the purpose?

Just to not be called a hijacker....lol....that's a different situation than a college, where people who are becoming (hopefully) more independent spend a few years growing and learning to that end. I agree that if behavior violates a school's code of conduct then the school should follow up per their guidelines. HOWEVER, if the NAACP pitching a fit were to pressure a school into punishing these students in some way (I know that's not been suggested) then that's a different issue.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[steveorino 7]

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Do you really refer to your congregation as your "flock?" Is that a little condescending? I was thinking of how being referred to as a "congregation" and a "flock" differs. It's probably a different thread.... But it seems like calling people of the church your "flock" puts them in a childlike and dependent role. What's the purpose?

The term "pastor" means shepherd.

Acts 20:28 gives an admonishment to pastors: "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood."

My congregation refers to themselves as "the Flock that Rocks!" So I doubt they see it as condescending. I'm not sure why you do.

steveOrino

[Lindsey 0]

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Do you really refer to your congregation as your "flock?" Is that a little condescending? I was thinking of how being referred to as a "congregation" and a "flock" differs. It's probably a different thread.... But it seems like calling people of the church your "flock" puts them in a childlike and dependent role. What's the purpose?

The term "pastor" means shepherd.

Acts 20:28 gives an admonishment to pastors: "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood."

My congregation refers to themselves as "the Flock that Rocks!" So I doubt they see it as condescending. I'm not sure why you do.

baaaaaaa.

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[kallend 2,150]

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Do you really refer to your congregation as your "flock?" Is that a little condescending? I was thinking of how being referred to as a "congregation" and a "flock" differs. It's probably a different thread.... But it seems like calling people of the church your "flock" puts them in a childlike and dependent role. What's the purpose?

The term "pastor" means shepherd.

Acts 20:28 gives an admonishment to pastors: "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood."

My congregation refers to themselves as "the Flock that Rocks!" So I doubt they see it as condescending. I'm not sure why you do.

Maybe being considered "sheep" appeals to them.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

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Do you really refer to your congregation as your "flock?" Is that a little condescending? I was thinking of how being referred to as a "congregation" and a "flock" differs. It's probably a different thread.... But it seems like calling people of the church your "flock" puts them in a childlike and dependent role. What's the purpose?

The term "pastor" means shepherd.

Acts 20:28 gives an admonishment to pastors: "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood."

My congregation refers to themselves as "the Flock that Rocks!" So I doubt they see it as condescending. I'm not sure why you do.

Maybe being considered "sheep" appeals to them.

Maybe it depends who is calling you a sheep.

I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me John 10:16

steveOrino

[sundevil777 102]

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As far as location goes, I didn't see any paragraph stating "This code of conduct only applies on Clemson's Campus, anything goes elsewhere". If a student plagiarizes a term paper but they do it off campus, that's OK with you?

Another really crappy analogy.

If a plagiarized term paper (written off campus) is turned in to a class (on campus), then of course it doesn't matter where it was written.

If some students have a party off campus and make a film that insults some group, that is totally different, unless they show the film on campus.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[waltappel 1]

I think those parties are pretty funny. Tacky for sure, but funny. I'd LOVE to see a bunch of dorky-assed rich white kids trying to act "gangsta". I'd be laughing my ass off!

IMO, anyone who is offended by that kind of thing is offended waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easily. It was only a costume party. I DO think that having those parties on Martin Luther King's birthday is seriously tacky

To me, the reactions of the NAACP and the college administrations is far more ridiculous than the parties.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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>If one of our students was convicted of, say, sexual assault or drug
> dealing that occurred off campus, and was given a supended
> sentence by the court, he (or she) would ipso facto be in violation of
> OUR code of conduct and would likely be dismissed.

Right - but we're talking about people being dicks here, not about them being convicted of any crimes.

IMO they were acting pretty silly, but I didn't read anything about them being dicks to anyone.

Walt

[waltappel 1]

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Now if we can just get SOMEONE to investigate all those black comedians who wouldn't have any routine at all if it weren't for mocking white people!

That would be a waste of time. As all PC people know, only white people are racist.

Walt

[kallend 2,150]

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As far as location goes, I didn't see any paragraph stating "This code of conduct only applies on Clemson's Campus, anything goes elsewhere". If a student plagiarizes a term paper but they do it off campus, that's OK with you?

Another really crappy analogy.

If a plagiarized term paper (written off campus) is turned in to a class (on campus), then of course it doesn't matter where it was written.

If some students have a party off campus and make a film that insults some group, that is totally different, unless they show the film on campus.

THAT depends on the school's Code of Conduct, not on your opinion.

By matriculating, students accept that they are bound by the school's Code of Conduct. If they don't like the Code of Conduct they are free to go elsewhere to study. No-one was ever forced to attend Clemson against their will. Colleges associated with churches have remarkably strict codes of conduct (mandating "morality") that apply on and off campus. Do you find that objectionable?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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I think those parties are pretty funny. Tacky for sure, but funny. I'd LOVE to see a bunch of dorky-assed rich white kids trying to act "gangsta". I'd be laughing my ass off!

IMO, anyone who is offended by that kind of thing is offended waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easily. It was only a costume party. I DO think that having those parties on Martin Luther King's birthday is seriously tacky

To me, the reactions of the NAACP and the college administrations is far more ridiculous than the parties.

Walt

That's as may be. The point you are all missing is that any college or university is free to set rules for members of its community; just like a church; just like a Country Club; just like a Homeowners' Association. Flout the rules and expect some disciplinary action. Don't like the rules, then go elsewhere.

These students will, no doubt, be held accountable if it turns out that they violated Clemson's Code of Conduct. Clemson has a due process and I fully expect it will be followed.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[sundevil777 102]

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As far as location goes, I didn't see any paragraph stating "This code of conduct only applies on Clemson's Campus, anything goes elsewhere". If a student plagiarizes a term paper but they do it off campus, that's OK with you?

Another really crappy analogy.

If a plagiarized term paper (written off campus) is turned in to a class (on campus), then of course it doesn't matter where it was written.

If some students have a party off campus and make a film that insults some group, that is totally different, unless they show the film on campus.

THAT depends on the school's Code of Conduct, not on your opinion.

By matriculating, students accept that they are bound by the school's Code of Conduct. If they don't like the Code of Conduct they are free to go elsewhere to study. No-one was ever forced to attend Clemson against their will. Colleges associated with churches have remarkably strict codes of conduct (mandating "morality") that apply on and off campus. Do you find that objectionable?

I completely agree with you on the school's right to enforce its code of conduct, even for conduct off campus. But really, I think it is not the conduct that mattered, it is that it embarrassed the school.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[NCclimber 0]

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As far as location goes, I didn't see any paragraph stating "This code of conduct only applies on Clemson's Campus, anything goes elsewhere". If a student plagiarizes a term paper but they do it off campus, that's OK with you?

Another really crappy analogy.

If a plagiarized term paper (written off campus) is turned in to a class (on campus), then of course it doesn't matter where it was written.

If some students have a party off campus and make a film that insults some group, that is totally different, unless they show the film on campus.

THAT depends on the school's Code of Conduct, not on your opinion.

By matriculating, students accept that they are bound by the school's Code of Conduct. If they don't like the Code of Conduct they are free to go elsewhere to study. No-one was ever forced to attend Clemson against their will. Colleges associated with churches have remarkably strict codes of conduct (mandating "morality") that apply on and off campus. Do you find that objectionable?

I wonder if anyone has ever done a study or taken a survey to find out how many freshmen have read their Code of Conduct handbooks by Christmas break? Or how about how many of them had read an entire paragraph in it by Christmas?

Two percent?

Five percent?

you keep waving the "Code of Conduct" issue around, but in the real world it's not that relevant to the actions of college freshmen.

My guess is practically all of incoming freshmen rely on their previously held understanding of what is right or wrong, what they are told in orientation and by their RAs to determine what is or is not appropriate behavior.

[NCclimber 0]

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I think those parties are pretty funny. Tacky for sure, but funny. I'd LOVE to see a bunch of dorky-assed rich white kids trying to act "gangsta". I'd be laughing my ass off!

IMO, anyone who is offended by that kind of thing is offended waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too easily. It was only a costume party. I DO think that having those parties on Martin Luther King's birthday is seriously tacky

To me, the reactions of the NAACP and the college administrations is far more ridiculous than the parties.

Walt

That's as may be. The point you are all missing is that any college or university is free to set rules for members of its community; just like a church; just like a Country Club; just like a Homeowners' Association. Flout the rules and expect some disciplinary action. Don't like the rules, then go elsewhere.

These students will, no doubt, be held accountable if it turns out that they violated Clemson's Code of Conduct. Clemson has a due process and I fully expect it will be followed.

These officious, pedantic sounding kinds of proclamations, based on hypotheticals, come across like you're just regurgitating the "society of college administrators" party line.

[kallend 2,150]

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I wonder if anyone has ever done a study or taken a survey to find out how many freshmen have read their Code of Conduct handbooks by Christmas break? Or how about how many of them had read an entire paragraph in it by Christmas?

Two percent?

Five percent?

you keep waving the "Code of Conduct" issue around, but in the real world it's not that relevant to the actions of college freshmen.

My guess is practically all of incoming freshmen rely on their previously held understanding of what is right or wrong, what they are told in orientation and by their RAs to determine what is or is not appropriate behavior.

I expect it's a MUCH LARGER % than the citizens who have read the US Code or the % of pilots who have read all the FARs. However, ignorance of the law is no excuse when you're standing in front of the judge.

I advised 58 freshman last semester. I gave every one of them a copy of our rules and regulations and I told each of them that they were expected to read it.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 2,150]

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These officious, pedantic sounding kinds of proclamations, based on hypotheticals, come across like you're just regurgitating the "society of college administrators" party line.

Tell it to the judge.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.