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JohnRich

England: Gun Crime still Rising

By JohnRich, in Speakers Corner

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mnealtx    0

mnealtx
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You want to know - you look it up. I'm not here to do your research for you.

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Translation: I can't refute the point, so I'm not going to answer.



If you are trying to make a point, the burden is on you to provide supporting evidence, not on me.

Want to make a point, then YOU provide the data.



YOU are the one saying it's due to the guns - prove it's the guns and not the overall culture. I merely suggested a possible proof.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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NCclimber    0

NCclimber
Quote

Quote

You want to know - you look it up. I'm not here to do your research for you.

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Translation: I can't refute the point, so I'm not going to answer.



If you are trying to make a point, the burden is on you to provide supporting evidence, not on me.

Want to make a point, then YOU provide the data.



Let's review:
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If the culture is SO different, why is it that overall crime rates (including non-gun violent crimes) are so similar in these various countries, but GUN homicides are way out of line in the USA?


Do you have any sources to back back your claims? What are they?

Are you implying that if guns were banned in the US, the Violent Crime and Homicide levels would be equal to current levels for all non-gun related incidents?



Go check out the FBI UCR for the last 10 years, and compare with data from Canada, Australia and the UK Home Office. It has also been posted in SC previously.


Previously posted in SC??? :o

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Well, we know that muggings, burglaries, rapes etc. occur with about the same frequency in UK, Australia and Canada as in US



We do?

Since when?



Data previously posted - look it up.



Anyone notice a trend.

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kallend    2,148

kallend
Quote

Quote

Quote

You want to know - you look it up. I'm not here to do your research for you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Translation: I can't refute the point, so I'm not going to answer.



If you are trying to make a point, the burden is on you to provide supporting evidence, not on me.

Want to make a point, then YOU provide the data.



YOU are the one saying it's due to the guns - prove it's the guns and not the overall culture. I merely suggested a possible proof.



Well, go ahead and prove it, then.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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NCclimber    0

NCclimber
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Quote



We do?

Since when?



Data previously posted - look it up.



Anyone notice a trend.



Yes, people are too fucking lazy to look things up for themselves or check the archives.



The thing is when you posted:
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Well, we know that muggings, burglaries, rapes etc. occur with about the same frequency in UK, Australia and Canada as in US



I looked through this thread and didn't find any posts that proved that point.

So, either it's there and I missed it or..... you're just using the "previously posted, look it up" ploy to duck the issue.

As far as I can tell, you're just blowing smoke. feel free to prove me wrong.

And that bit about "It has also been posted in SC previously" was a cute stunt.

I wonder where among the 242,827 posts I might find that information. :S:S:S

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rushmc    23

rushmc
Quote



:)
Sucks to have to do your own research, doesn't it?



No, what really sucks is when the data is presented to you and you go all obtuse and thngs:P
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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kelpdiver    2

kelpdiver
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I don't have scientific quotes for you either..... do you? However from what I've read generally over the years (no quotes I'm afraid) it is relatively easy to squeeze a trigger when some distance from the target compared to the physical exertion and psycological trauma of killing by repeatedly sticking a knife into someones chest/sawing away at their throat/sticking it through their eye to hit the brain.



I'd say it's probable true that it's easier to be a sniper than to walk up to someone and kill them. But again, that's coming from someone that doesn't believe in killing others. Killers may find either just as easy.

And in the case we're talking about, the killer had an entire room full of children plus the teacher. All of the shootings were at close range, so I think the argument that the gun made it easier is dubious.

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A 10 year old child could kill a grown man with a gun quite easily but they would find it quite difficult (in most cases) of killing him with a knife (no scientific quotes for you there either I'm afraid, just common sense)



Common sense says that a knife is just as sharp when wielded by a 10year old. It's really about the will to do harm. Worse, a 10 year old may not be emotionally capable of understanding what he's doing. He may be weaker in stabbing motions, but slashing motions are still the same.

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kallend    2,148

kallend
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:)
Sucks to have to do your own research, doesn't it?




Not as much as having your own duplicity exposed.



You can look it up for yourself like I did - the data are all in the public domain. Just takes a little WORK. You can do it!
...

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kallend    2,148

kallend
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If you are trying to make a point, the burden is on you to provide supporting evidence, not on me.

Want to make a point, then YOU provide the data.



you argue that every murderer was a law abiding citizen first. So by your own words, cough it up.



How many people are born as criminals?


(You made it so easy it wasn't even fun.)
...

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kallend    2,148

kallend
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I love how these threads always end up deadlocked like this.



We've had the exact same thread a couple of dozen times now. Same data, same claims. Same JR trolling about crime in the UK.
...

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kallend    2,148

kallend
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you argue that every murderer was a law abiding citizen first. So by your own words, cough it up.



How many people are born as criminals?



When your only strategy is semantics, you're in bad company.

Or you're really in need of a new hobby.



Gotcha, and you're a sore loser :P
...

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NCclimber    0

NCclimber
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Do you have any sources to back back your claims? What are they?

Are you implying that if guns were banned in the US, the Violent Crime and Homicide levels would be equal to current levels for all non-gun related incidents?


Go check out the FBI UCR for the last 10 years, and compare with data from Canada, Australia and the UK Home Office. It has also been posted in SC previously.




Quote

If you are trying to make a point, the burden is on you to provide supporting evidence, not on me.

Want to make a point, then YOU provide the data.




***
Quote

Quote

:)Sucks to have to do your own research, doesn't it?

Not as much as having your own duplicity exposed.

You can look it up for yourself like I did - the data are all in the public domain.



You do talk out of both sides of your mouth better than most.

It's a nice compliment to the lies you post.... and refuse to own up to when exposed.

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JohnRich    4

JohnRich
And what's really ironic, is that as vehemently as kallend argues against guns here, he as several times in other threads in the past indicated that he is actually pro-gun ownership. So, he's actually a contributor to all these horrible problems in society that he blames on guns, while at the same time arguing against them.

Go figure...

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kallend    2,148

kallend
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And what's really ironic, is that as vehemently as kallend argues against guns here, he as several times in other threads in the past indicated that he is actually pro-gun ownership. So, he's actually a contributor to all these horrible problems in society that he blames on guns, while at the same time arguing against them.

Go figure...



If you actually paid attention, I do NOT argue against guns. I argue against the lie that arming society makes it safer.
...

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mnealtx    0

mnealtx
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And what's really ironic, is that as vehemently as kallend argues against guns here, he as several times in other threads in the past indicated that he is actually pro-gun ownership. So, he's actually a contributor to all these horrible problems in society that he blames on guns, while at the same time arguing against them.

Go figure...



If you actually paid attention, I do NOT argue against guns. I argue against the lie that arming society makes it safer.



It's a lie, but you STILL can't explain why violent crime is still below the nat'l average in carry states.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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kallend    2,148

kallend
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Quote

Quote

Do you have any sources to back back your claims? What are they?

Are you implying that if guns were banned in the US, the Violent Crime and Homicide levels would be equal to current levels for all non-gun related incidents?


Go check out the FBI UCR for the last 10 years, and compare with data from Canada, Australia and the UK Home Office. It has also been posted in SC previously.




Quote

If you are trying to make a point, the burden is on you to provide supporting evidence, not on me.

Want to make a point, then YOU provide the data.




***
Quote

Quote

:)Sucks to have to do your own research, doesn't it?

Not as much as having your own duplicity exposed.

You can look it up for yourself like I did - the data are all in the public domain.



You do talk out of both sides of your mouth better than most.

It's a nice compliment to the lies you post.... and refuse to own up to when exposed.



Here ya go, Sunshine, data for 2001:

Rates per 100,000 population

Homicides USA 5.5 (England+Wales+Canada) 1.56

Robberies USA 148 (England+Wales+Canada) 133

Aggravated Assault USA 319 (England+Wales+Canada) 343

So Homicides(USA)/Homicides(E+W+C) = 5.5/1.56 = 3.5

Robberies and assaults(USA)/Robberies and assaults(E+W+C) = 0.98

Clearly it's in homicides that the USA is way out of line with similar countries, not in overall violence.

In other words, it's JUST AS I SAID so you may now stop calling me a liar.

This is ABSOLUTELY the LAST TIME I do your homework for you.:P:P
...

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